QTR-Quadtone RIP

Setup: Mac 10.4.3 Epson 7000 w/ K6 inks. QTR version 2.3.5

	Problem: Grainy appearance to the images because of white paper showing through the 
ink, from 30-90% in the tonal scale. I'm using the supplied profiles that come with the latest 
QTR. I have used these profiles both with the default linearization and with after doing my 
own linearizations.
  
    
  Things I've tried: I have replaced the capping station, heads, dampers (bought the machine 
used). I've done the physical and logical adjustments after the new parts were put in. I'm 
using the "better" setting in the printer dialog.
  
 	The issue is not banding. The white paper that shows through the ink is in a 
randomized pattern. It's the pattern made by paper (or lighter ink) showing through the 
pattern of larger, darker dots. I use qtr with a 2200 and K7 and achieve very fine results. I 
believe I have all the print dialogs set correctly. I manage to get it done right with the 
2200  :-)
 	
 	Any idea how I can get better results from this printer/ink/rip combination?

does your printer work right without QTR?

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Stracke" <markastracke@...> wrote:
>
>     Setup: Mac 10.4.3 Epson 7000 w/ K6 inks. QTR version 2.3.5
> 
> 	Problem: Grainy appearance to the images because of white paper showing through 
the 
> ink, from 30-90% in the tonal scale. I'm using the supplied profiles that come with the 
latest 
> QTR. I have used these profiles both with the default linearization and with after doing 
my 
> own linearizations.
>   
>     
>   Things I've tried: I have replaced the capping station, heads, dampers (bought the 
machine 
> used). I've done the physical and logical adjustments after the new parts were put in. I'm 
> using the "better" setting in the printer dialog.
>   
>  	The issue is not banding. The white paper that shows through the ink is in a 
> randomized pattern. It's the pattern made by paper (or lighter ink) showing through the 
> pattern of larger, darker dots. I use qtr with a 2200 and K7 and achieve very fine results. 
I 

> believe I have all the print dialogs set correctly. I manage to get it done right with the 
> 2200  :-)
>  	
>  	Any idea how I can get better results from this printer/ink/rip combination?
>

The 7000 printers are much older that the 2200 so some of the 
difference may be
due to dot sizes of the printers.   But unless you are looking at 
prints with a loupe its
usually not a issue.

So I'm not really sure if what you are seeing is a more serious problem 
or not.
Naturally nozzle checks should be checked and correct ink order 
verified.
I'd suggest printing out the 21step.psd file and scanning the results 
so we can see it.

Roy

On Sunday, February 26, 2006, at 08:09  AM, Mark Stracke wrote:

>     Setup: Mac 10.4.3 Epson 7000 w/ K6 inks. QTR version 2.3.5
>
> 	Problem: Grainy appearance to the images because of white paper 
> showing through the
> ink, from 30-90% in the tonal scale. I'm using the supplied profiles 
> that come with the latest
> QTR. I have used these profiles both with the default linearization 
> and with after doing my
> own linearizations.
>
>
>   Things I've tried: I have replaced the capping station, heads, 
> dampers (bought the machine
> used). I've done the physical and logical adjustments after the new 
> parts were put in. I'm
> using the "better" setting in the printer dialog.
>
>  	The issue is not banding. The white paper that shows through the ink 
> is in a
> randomized pattern. It's the pattern made by paper (or lighter ink) 
> showing through the
> pattern of larger, darker dots. I use qtr with a 2200 and K7 and 
> achieve very fine results. I
> believe I have all the print dialogs set correctly. I manage to get it 
> done right with the
> 2200  :-)
>  	
>  	Any idea how I can get better results from this printer/ink/rip 
> combination?
>
>
-
Roy Harrington
roy@...
Black & White Photo Gallery
http://www.harrington.com

Roy,

I posted a scan of the 21 step gradient in the files section (7000_NK6_21Step.tif). You can 
see the graininess in the scan in the 25-40% range easily. In the actual print it goes right 
up through 95%. I'm 55 and can see this clearly with only my reading glasses. Through a 
loupe it gets pretty alarming. I know the 2200 has a smaller dot, but I've seen much 
smoother results on a 7000 with only 4 inks than I'm getting here with 6.

Nozzle checks are good. As I noted, I replaced the heads last week so I've done lots of 
adjustment and nozzle printouts in the last 7 days. The inks are in the right slots, now. I 
got them wrong at first and have them placed correctly at this time.

I've tried making my own profile from scratch and the result is better. I found that density 
increased through 70% in the inkseparation file, so I upped my ink limit to 65%, removing 
the varying limits for the other inks.

Again, any help is greatly appreciated

Mark Stracke

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Roy Harrington <roy@...> wrote:

>
> 
> The 7000 printers are much older that the 2200 so some of the 
> difference may be
> due to dot sizes of the printers.   But unless you are looking at 
> prints with a loupe its
> usually not a issue.
> 
> So I'm not really sure if what you are seeing is a more serious problem 
> or not.
> Naturally nozzle checks should be checked and correct ink order 
> verified.
> I'd suggest printing out the 21step.psd file and scanning the results 
> so we can see it.
>

Mark,

This is probably pretty obvious, but did you change the dither pattern
and the Speed vs. Better selection? With my quad inks, I got rough
tonal seperation and dither "grain". However, when I switched to
Adaptive Hybid and Better, my problems largely went away. (I use the
7000 with Piezography Selenium inks.)

Nemo

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Stracke" <markastracke@...>
wrote:
>
>     Setup: Mac 10.4.3 Epson 7000 w/ K6 inks. QTR version 2.3.5
> 
> 	Problem: Grainy appearance to the images because of white paper
showing through the 
> ink, from 30-90% in the tonal scale. I'm using the supplied profiles
that come with the latest 
> QTR. I have used these profiles both with the default linearization
and with after doing my 
> own linearizations.
>   
>     
>   Things I've tried: I have replaced the capping station, heads,
dampers (bought the machine 
> used). I've done the physical and logical adjustments after the new
parts were put in. I'm 
> using the "better" setting in the printer dialog.
>   
>  	The issue is not banding. The white paper that shows through the
ink is in a 
> randomized pattern. It's the pattern made by paper (or lighter ink)
showing through the 
> pattern of larger, darker dots. I use qtr with a 2200 and K7 and
achieve very fine results. I 
> believe I have all the print dialogs set correctly. I manage to get
it done right with the 
> 2200  :-)
>  	
>  	Any idea how I can get better results from this printer/ink/rip
combination?
>

"Mark Stracke"  wrote:

>     Setup: Mac 10.4.3 Epson 7000 w/ K6 inks. QTR version 2.3.5
> 	Problem: Grainy appearance to the images because of white paper showing through the 
> ink, from 30-90% in the tonal scale.

Mark,

Cone had a bad set of inks for the 7000....did you get the latest ones?

To John and Nemo (previous message)

I have only used the "better" choice under the "High Speed" setting. I also thought to try all 
the dither patterns. I printed each one out on the 21 step scale and saw weird patterns 
somewhere in the scale with all of the patterns except the standard: ordered, so I've stuck 
with that. 

As it happens, I was in Vermont the week *before* I loaded this machine with K6 inks. I 
had been shipped a mislabeled cart so I took it with me and the Cone folks were able to 
exchange it for me on the spot. The densities I see on an inkseparation chart match what I 
expect, but is the ink somehow bad (ie the density looks right but the ink doesn't perform 
correctly??)

What seems to be having a positive effect is making my own profiles. I've found I can up 
the overall ink limit beyond the 50% that comes with the supplied profiles. But now I 
wonder, do I set individual limits for each ink? For instance, black maxes out around 65%- 
cyan can go to 80- the others seem to continue to gain desnsity right up to the 100% area, 
should I go with such a mismash of limits? I've tried making a profile like this and it's 
working pretty well, but needs more tuning. Am I heading down a path here that will be 
filled with frustrations and blind alleys?

Thanks for your help

Mark


--- In QuadtoneRIP@...m, "John Vitollo" <jvlist@...> wrote:
>
> "Mark Stracke"  wrote:
> 
> >     Setup: Mac 10.4.3 Epson 7000 w/ K6 inks. QTR version 2.3.5
> > 	Problem: Grainy appearance to the images because of white paper showing through 
the 

> > ink, from 30-90% in the tonal scale.
> 
> Mark,
> 
> Cone had a bad set of inks for the 7000....did you get the latest ones?
>