QTR-Quadtone RIP

Hi, I'm new to this. Until now I was using Qimage for color managed
printing and I wasn't getting consistent results in b/w even with
customed profiles. 
So, about QTR please answer the following questions.
_Does QTR make use only of the 2 black inks that the UCinkset has? 
_Which of the 2, both or that depends on the curve being used?
_For the R800 I can choose between QuadR800 and QuadR800-NK7. What 
exactly NK7 stands for and how can I utilize it?
_For the QuadR800 model there are, in the latest nersion, only
UC-EEnhMatte profiles.Can these profiles be used on other matte papers
or not?

Any input would be much appreciated.

Zisskar

I don't have a R800 so I can't speak from direct experience with that
printer. However, since you are using Windows and QTRgui there is an easy
way to see what inks any QTR curves uses. Select the printing model and then
curve that interests you in one of the curve selection drop down boxes. Then
right click that drop down box. You will see a menu item for Show Curve
Graph. That will show you how the inks are used to create that curve.

In general, QTR can, and often does, use the all or most of inkset offered
by the printer. For example, the 2200 (my printer) the UC curve set
typically has a warm and a cool curve (plus others like sepia and selenium).
The Warm curve usually uses the K and LK inks. The Cool curve uses the K and
LK with the addition LC and LM to create a cool tone. For the Sepia curve
the Y ink is also used. In general, for 2200 UC curves, the L and M inks are
not normally used. The R800 inkset is different than the 2200's, so you
might have to look at some examples to figure out how to use it.

For R800 with Epson inks, you would use the QuadR800 printing model and the
Curves available under it. The QuadR800-NK7 printing model is for use with
the NK7 inkset from Inkjet Mall. The large set of paper options under it I
believe were provide by the ink supplier.

Aside from the effort by Roy and other developers, QTR is largely a communal
do-it-yourself project. The number of curves available reflects the
popularity printer/inkset/paper combination within the Digital BW printing
community. However, QTR does provide the means to create the curves you need
yourself, with some effort and other resources. So, no, there aren't a lot
of paper/ink options for the R800 with Epson inks - at least not yet. You
might ask on this list or the BW Printing List whether there are others with
this printer who might have curves to share.

As for using the existing EEM with other matte papers, of course you can do
it. You may or may not be happy with the results. If you do try it, you can
use the Shadow and Gamma adjustments in QTR to adjust the results to your
liking. It would have to be a trial and error process though.

Regards

Tom Moore

> -----Original Message-----
> From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of zisskar
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 11:03 AM
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] QTR on Epson R800 with UC inkset
> 
> Hi, I'm new to this. Until now I was using Qimage for color managed
> printing and I wasn't getting consistent results in b/w even with
> customed profiles.
> So, about QTR please answer the following questions.
> _Does QTR make use only of the 2 black inks that the UCinkset has?
> _Which of the 2, both or that depends on the curve being used?
> _For the R800 I can choose between QuadR800 and QuadR800-NK7. What
> exactly NK7 stands for and how can I utilize it?
> _For the QuadR800 model there are, in the latest nersion, only
> UC-EEnhMatte profiles.Can these profiles be used on other matte papers
> or not?
...

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Moore" <r.t.moore@...> wrote:
>
> Zisskar
> 
> I don't have a R800 so I can't speak from direct experience with that
> printer. However, since you are using Windows and QTRgui there is an
easy
> way to see what inks any QTR curves uses. Select the printing model
and then
> curve that interests you in one of the curve selection drop down
boxes. Then
> right click that drop down box. You will see a menu item for Show Curve
> Graph. That will show you how the inks are used to create that curve.
> 
> In general, QTR can, and often does, use the all or most of inkset
offered
> by the printer. For example, the 2200 (my printer) the UC curve set
> typically has a warm and a cool curve (plus others like sepia and
selenium).
> The Warm curve usually uses the K and LK inks. The Cool curve uses
the K and
> LK with the addition LC and LM to create a cool tone. For the Sepia
curve
> the Y ink is also used. In general, for 2200 UC curves, the L and M
inks are
> not normally used. The R800 inkset is different than the 2200's, so you
> might have to look at some examples to figure out how to use it.
> 
> For R800 with Epson inks, you would use the QuadR800 printing model
and the
> Curves available under it. The QuadR800-NK7 printing model is for
use with
> the NK7 inkset from Inkjet Mall. The large set of paper options
under it I
> believe were provide by the ink supplier.
> 
> Aside from the effort by Roy and other developers, QTR is largely a
communal
> do-it-yourself project. The number of curves available reflects the
> popularity printer/inkset/paper combination within the Digital BW
printing
> community. However, QTR does provide the means to create the curves
you need
> yourself, with some effort and other resources. So, no, there aren't
a lot
> of paper/ink options for the R800 with Epson inks - at least not
yet. You
> might ask on this list or the BW Printing List whether there are
others with
> this printer who might have curves to share.
> 
> As for using the existing EEM with other matte papers, of course you
can do
> it. You may or may not be happy with the results. If you do try it,
you can
> use the Shadow and Gamma adjustments in QTR to adjust the results to
your
> liking. It would have to be a trial and error process though.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Tom Moore
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
> > Behalf Of zisskar
> > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 11:03 AM
> > To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] QTR on Epson R800 with UC inkset
> > 
> > Hi, I'm new to this. Until now I was using Qimage for color managed
> > printing and I wasn't getting consistent results in b/w even with
> > customed profiles.
> > So, about QTR please answer the following questions.
> > _Does QTR make use only of the 2 black inks that the UCinkset has?
> > _Which of the 2, both or that depends on the curve being used?
> > _For the R800 I can choose between QuadR800 and QuadR800-NK7. What
> > exactly NK7 stands for and how can I utilize it?
> > _For the QuadR800 model there are, in the latest nersion, only
> > UC-EEnhMatte profiles.Can these profiles be used on other matte papers
> > or not?
> ...
>

Thank you Tom,
your responce seemed to me, like a very warm welcome to the community,
it was informative and detailed.
I do have though couple more things to ask, since I've done my read
and trial & error tests, I happily found that QTR can be used in
conjuction with Qimage and get the best from both worlds.
So, I discovered the QTR-gray and QTR-RGB icc profiles to which I
convert images in CS before sending them to Qimage for upsizing and
sharpening. Then I print to file a Tiff in RGB, while canceling print
color manage in Qimage.
I concluded to this proccedure after reading several posts in both
forums. 
I still have a difficulty to understand how the embedded QTR icc
profile, is related to the QTR curves, whether the one overides the
other. 
Also, what's the theoretical difference between 1440dpi, 1440x1440 and
1440 super. I've done some tests and didn't realize any obvious
difference between them, except for printing time (and more ink I
presume).

Zisskar

Regarding use of ICC profiles with QTR:

The Gray and RGB ICC profiles were part of Roy's first attempt at
introducing colour management to B&W printing. For tose without an
densitometer or scanner they are still useful, but not as good as using his
ICC creation utilities.

There is a document in the ICC folder in the QuadtoneRIP folder that
describes how to use the RGB and Gray ICC profiles. In a nutshell, you can
edit your file in PS as you would normally and when ready to print you
convert to this profile before exporting the tif file for printing. This
adjusts the representation of the image to a profile closer to that expected
by QuadtoneRIP. Note that QTR does not use the ICC profile, it simply uses
the image data in file and prints it using the Curve you specify.

You would use the RGB ICC profile if you're image were in RGB format - for
example if you are printing with Qimage. If you have a grayscale image you
would use the gray ICC profile.

There is another document in the Eye-One folder in the QuadtoneRIP folder
that describes how to make your own ICC profiles for use with QTR.

Regarding printing modes

The available modes are determined from the Printing Model and are specific
to the printer. For the 2200 the modes are related to those available in the
Epson driver, except that Super 1440 is unidirectional printing at 1440
while regular 1440 is bidirectional. I'm not sure what 1440x1440. It must be
a specific mode of the R1800.

Tom Moore

> -----Original Message-----
> From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of zisskar
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 3:21 AM
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: QTR on Epson R800 with UC inkset

[...]

> 
> Thank you Tom,
> your responce seemed to me, like a very warm welcome to the community,
> it was informative and detailed.
> I do have though couple more things to ask, since I've done my read
> and trial & error tests, I happily found that QTR can be used in
> conjuction with Qimage and get the best from both worlds.
> So, I discovered the QTR-gray and QTR-RGB icc profiles to which I
> convert images in CS before sending them to Qimage for upsizing and
> sharpening. Then I print to file a Tiff in RGB, while canceling print
> color manage in Qimage.
> I concluded to this proccedure after reading several posts in both
> forums.
> I still have a difficulty to understand how the embedded QTR icc
> profile, is related to the QTR curves, whether the one overides the
> other.
> Also, what's the theoretical difference between 1440dpi, 1440x1440 and
> 1440 super. I've done some tests and didn't realize any obvious
> difference between them, except for printing time (and more ink I
> presume).
> 
> 
...