QTR-Quadtone RIP

Hi all,

Just got my Eye-one and started eagerly to make my first profile and 
run into trouble with the Eye-one measumerement tool. The required 
function does not seem to be avialable.

I'm following Tom Moore's User Guide and the Eye-one-readme contained 
with QTR. According to the instructions I downloaded Profilemaker 5 
from the GretagMacBeth website and started the Measurement tool. 
However the required "Measuring Chart" function is grayed out. I know 
this IS a demo version of Profilemaker, but according to the QTR Eye-
one-readme that should suffice. Unlike the readme that refers to 5.0.3, 
I have Profilemaker 5.0.7. I'm running Windows XP, while the readme 
seems to refer to Mac. 

Do I miss something or do I have bad luck that the measuring chart 
function is retrieved from the demo version or not avialable under 
windows? In that case, what alternative do I have? I tried to use 
the "color Picker" tool to read values one by one, but that is very 
cumbersome and prone to errors.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Joost

Hi Joost,

Are you sure you have the right eye-one?   The Display version does
not read patches -- its only a display device.

The other typical problem is that once you use the Config dialog to
select the Eye-One device (make sure it says "OK"), you must close
that window before the other options are enabled.

Roy

On Saturday, September 9, 2006, at 12:05  AM, horstenj wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Just got my Eye-one and started eagerly to make my first profile and
> run into trouble with the Eye-one measumerement tool. The required
> function does not seem to be avialable.
>
> I'm following Tom Moore's User Guide and the Eye-one-readme contained
> with QTR. According to the instructions I downloaded Profilemaker 5
> from the GretagMacBeth website and started the Measurement tool.
> However the required "Measuring Chart" function is grayed out. I know
> this IS a demo version of Profilemaker, but according to the QTR Eye-
> one-readme that should suffice. Unlike the readme that refers to 5.0.3,
> I have Profilemaker 5.0.7. I'm running Windows XP, while the readme
> seems to refer to Mac.
>
> Do I miss something or do I have bad luck that the measuring chart
> function is retrieved from the demo version or not avialable under
> windows? In that case, what alternative do I have? I tried to use
> the "color Picker" tool to read values one by one, but that is very
> cumbersome and prone to errors.
>
> Any advice greatly appreciated.
>
> Joost
>
>
-
Roy Harrington
roy@...
Black & White Photo Gallery
http://www.harrington.com

I can confirm that the chart-measurement functionality is still available in
demo mode when running 5.0.7 on Windows. Make sure the Eye One spectro is
plugged in, and the correct options are selected in the Config screen.

Jeff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roy Harrington
> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 10:53 AM
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Eye-one/Measurement Tool not working??
> 
> Hi Joost,
> 
> Are you sure you have the right eye-one?   The Display version does
> not read patches -- its only a display device.
> 
> The other typical problem is that once you use the Config 
> dialog to select the Eye-One device (make sure it says "OK"), 
> you must close that window before the other options are enabled.
> 
> Roy
> 
> On Saturday, September 9, 2006, at 12:05  AM, horstenj wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Just got my Eye-one and started eagerly to make my first 
> profile and 
> > run into trouble with the Eye-one measumerement tool. The required 
> > function does not seem to be avialable.
> >
> > I'm following Tom Moore's User Guide and the Eye-one-readme 
> contained 
> > with QTR. According to the instructions I downloaded Profilemaker 5 
> > from the GretagMacBeth website and started the Measurement tool.
> > However the required "Measuring Chart" function is grayed 
> out. I know 
> > this IS a demo version of Profilemaker, but according to 
> the QTR Eye- 
> > one-readme that should suffice. Unlike the readme that refers to 
> > 5.0.3, I have Profilemaker 5.0.7. I'm running Windows XP, while the 
> > readme seems to refer to Mac.
> >
> > Do I miss something or do I have bad luck that the measuring chart 
> > function is retrieved from the demo version or not avialable under 
> > windows? In that case, what alternative do I have? I tried 
> to use the 
> > "color Picker" tool to read values one by one, but that is very 
> > cumbersome and prone to errors.
> >
> > Any advice greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Joost
> >
> >
> -
> Roy Harrington
> roy@...
> Black & White Photo Gallery
> http://www.harrington.com
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

I have struggled somewhat further and found a way to reduce my error 
rate with the color picker. So that works, but I still appreciate a 
pointer to a way to semi-automate this process like with the Measure 
Tool.

Now I have run into another issue in the linearization process. I 
scan the L-values with the Eye-one and fill the data manually in the 
linearization table of QTR. When done, I press "create curve", but 
then I get the error message "Invalid linearize curve - not 
constantly increasing".

Of course that's true, since the L-values decrease from approx. 95 
(white) to 15 (black), but according to the user guide that should be 
fine. I quadruple-checked the values: it is an increasing series, no 
strange wiggles. As a test I tried to paste value in the reverse 
(wrong order), so with increasing values. Same error message. 

I did some further dummy tests: using (L'/100) (to get the values in 
the order of what could be densities, with L' the inversed order of 
the measured L-values). Same error. Strangely enough using (L'/100)^2 
did NOT give an error. Of course the resulting curves are of no use 
whatsoever. These (admittingly strange) experiment gives me the 
suspicion that there is a computational bug in QTR. Or could I be 
doing something wrong?
 
If it's a bug, I can possibly circumvent it by transforming my L-
values into densities. But I could not find a formula. Anyone has it 
available?

Joost

> -----Original Message-----
> From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of horstenj
> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 12:29 PM
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Error message while linearizing curve
> 
> I have struggled somewhat further and found a way to reduce 
> my error rate with the color picker. So that works, but I 
> still appreciate a pointer to a way to semi-automate this 
> process like with the Measure Tool.
> 
> Now I have run into another issue in the linearization 
> process. I scan the L-values with the Eye-one and fill the 
> data manually in the linearization table of QTR. When done, I 
> press "create curve", but then I get the error message 
> "Invalid linearize curve - not constantly increasing".
> 

Are you using the 51-step chart? I sometimes got the same result when trying
to linearize using the 51-step test chart. It seems that even though the
steps were increasing, the difference between some steps was so small that
QTR didn't seem to like it. You might want to try using the 21-step chart
instead, it may produce smoother results anyway. 

Jeff

Jeff, Roy,

Your postings and my other one have crossed. 

Thanks for your both replies. Now it's available indeed. I can not 
completely retrace what went wrong but probably not pressed the (well 
hidden) "OK" button.

Thanks, I'll make new scan and see if my other problem dissappears as 
well?

Joost




--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Kohn" <jkohn@...> wrote:
>
> I can confirm that the chart-measurement functionality is still 
available in
> demo mode when running 5.0.7 on Windows. Make sure the Eye One 
spectro is
> plugged in, and the correct options are selected in the Config 
screen.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com 
> > [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roy Harrington
> > Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 10:53 AM
> > To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Eye-one/Measurement Tool not working??
> > 
> > Hi Joost,
> > 
> > Are you sure you have the right eye-one?   The Display version 
does
> > not read patches -- its only a display device.
> > 
> > The other typical problem is that once you use the Config 
> > dialog to select the Eye-One device (make sure it says "OK"), 
> > you must close that window before the other options are enabled.
> > 
> > Roy
> > 
> > On Saturday, September 9, 2006, at 12:05  AM, horstenj wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Just got my Eye-one and started eagerly to make my first 
> > profile and 
> > > run into trouble with the Eye-one measumerement tool. The 
required 
> > > function does not seem to be avialable.
> > >
> > > I'm following Tom Moore's User Guide and the Eye-one-readme 
> > contained 
> > > with QTR. According to the instructions I downloaded 
Profilemaker 5 
> > > from the GretagMacBeth website and started the Measurement tool.
> > > However the required "Measuring Chart" function is grayed 
> > out. I know 
> > > this IS a demo version of Profilemaker, but according to 
> > the QTR Eye- 
> > > one-readme that should suffice. Unlike the readme that refers 
to 
> > > 5.0.3, I have Profilemaker 5.0.7. I'm running Windows XP, while 
the 
> > > readme seems to refer to Mac.
> > >
> > > Do I miss something or do I have bad luck that the measuring 
chart 
> > > function is retrieved from the demo version or not avialable 
under 

> > > windows? In that case, what alternative do I have? I tried 
> > to use the 
> > > "color Picker" tool to read values one by one, but that is very 
> > > cumbersome and prone to errors.
> > >
> > > Any advice greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Joost
> > >
> > >
> > -
> > Roy Harrington
> > roy@...
> > Black & White Photo Gallery
> > http://www.harrington.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Kohn" <jkohn@...> wrote:
> Are you using the 51-step chart? I sometimes got the same result 
when trying
> to linearize using the 51-step test chart. It seems that even 
though the
> steps were increasing, the difference between some steps was so 
small that
> QTR didn't seem to like it. 


Hi Jeff,

No, I use the 21-step wedge. But triggered by your reply I have 
studied the L values I measured (with Measure Tool. It is working 
fine now). This is what I got:

LINEARIZE="96.11 89.48 82.23 74.89 68.38 61.88 55.86 50.32 45.93 
42.21 38.85 36.25 33.71 31.38 28.64 25.46 23.52 21.37 19.5 18.69 
15.31"

Note the last three numbers. The 90% and 95% values are fairly close 
and then there is a sudden drop for the 100% (black). If I 
artificially change the 18.69 in 17.69, the error message disappears. 

My conclusion is that my curve parameters are way off from the 
optimum. I guess I have to fiddle with the ink limit and black boost 
parameters. So the error is on my side.

As a suggestion to Roy: it would be nice if QTR could give clearer 
error message in a case like this.

Joost