QTR-Quadtone RIP

Hi,
I have an Epson stylus 870 and want to print onto Kodak premium photo 
paper. I have mot got the MIS ut2 inks yet as my son is bringing them 
over from the US this week with his B&W negs. My problem is I will 
have to generate the curves and print the photes in the 2 days that 
he will be with me. The problem that Roy or Tom can help me with is 
that on page 15 of the manual Tom talks about Quadtone inks re 
comparing each lighter ink with the next darker ink then converting 
its density realive to black.
My Problem: does the blackest ink always remain as the base line 
against which all the others are compared in turn as you move down 
the grays?
From the manual I can read a possibility of moving down pairs of 
grays and compairing max gray against each other then some how 
relating that back to max black from the black ink.
Second query: In  an attempt to resolve this I looked at the .qidf 
file for an Epson photo paper for the Epson 1270 which has, I 
believe, the same print engine as my 870 and shock horror Max black 
does not appear to be used.
Help as it is along way from Boston to get here next week and have no 
prints

> -----Original Message-----
> From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of melvin9347
> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 5:38 AM
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] newbie curve creator
> 
> Hi,
> I have an Epson stylus 870 and want to print onto Kodak premium photo
> paper. I have mot got the MIS ut2 inks yet as my son is bringing them
> over from the US this week with his B&W negs. My problem is I will
> have to generate the curves and print the photes in the 2 days that
> he will be with me. The problem that Roy or Tom can help me with is
> that on page 15 of the manual Tom talks about Quadtone inks re
> comparing each lighter ink with the next darker ink then converting
> its density realive to black.
> My Problem: does the blackest ink always remain as the base line
> against which all the others are compared in turn as you move down
> the grays?


Yes. You compare LK with K and then compare LLK with LK and the compute its
relative blackness to K.

> From the manual I can read a possibility of moving down pairs of
> grays and compairing max gray against each other then some how
> relating that back to max black from the black ink.
> Second query: In  an attempt to resolve this I looked at the .qidf
> file for an Epson photo paper for the Epson 1270 which has, I
> believe, the same print engine as my 870 and shock horror Max black
> does not appear to be used.

I haven't used the UT2 inks but I have used the UT7 on a 2200. The inksets
use Eboni in the K position. Eboni is a matte black and isn't used on glossy
papers. In the UT7 curves the two darker toners are mixed to make black. I
get fairly good dmax with this technique. However with my UT7 inks, and I
think the UT2 will be similar, you will still get bronzing on glossy paper.
You can reduce the brinzing by spraying the image with PermierArt
Printshield.

> Help as it is along way from Boston to get here next week and have no
> prints
> 
Tom Moore

> Yes. You compare LK with K and then compare LLK with LK and 
> the compute its relative blackness to K.

I've always compared each value to K and nothing else. Once I experimented
with wildly different values on each ink, and it didn't seem to hurt the
resulting curves as long as I did a linearization in the end. I'm not
recommending that of course, but it seems there's a large margin for error
here.
 
> fairly good dmax with this technique. However with my UT7 
> inks, and I think the UT2 will be similar, you will still get 
> bronzing on glossy paper.

I find the UT7 inks are as good as Epsons K3 inks with visible bronzing only
in the brightest highlights. I use gloss optimizer in the yellow position to
get rid of this.

The Epson Premium Semigloss curves on my site might be a good starting point
for new glossy curves. With the UT2 inkset I think you have to swap C and LC
for M and LM.

http://daniel.staver.no/home/files

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Staver" <daniel@...> 
wrote:
>Many thanks Daniel, I have gone out and bought some Ilford classic 
Pearl after Tom's comments about bronzing when using gloss  as I have 
to get it right this weekend but I will try modifying your curves for 
gloss latter as my printer prefers Kodak way better than Epson papers.
Thanks again
> > Yes. You compare LK with K and then compare LLK with LK and 
> > the compute its relative blackness to K.
> 
> I've always compared each value to K and nothing else. Once I 
experimented
> with wildly different values on each ink, and it didn't seem to 
hurt the
> resulting curves as long as I did a linearization in the end. I'm 
not
> recommending that of course, but it seems there's a large margin 
for error
> here.
>  
> > fairly good dmax with this technique. However with my UT7 
> > inks, and I think the UT2 will be similar, you will still get 
> > bronzing on glossy paper.
> 
> I find the UT7 inks are as good as Epsons K3 inks with visible 
bronzing only
> in the brightest highlights. I use gloss optimizer in the yellow 
position to
> get rid of this.
> 
> The Epson Premium Semigloss curves on my site might be a good 
starting point
> for new glossy curves. With the UT2 inkset I think you have to swap 
C and LC

> for M and LM.
> 
> http://daniel.staver.no/home/files
> 
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no
>

I may be wrong, but I thought Ilford Classic Pearl was for dye inks, and
that you had to use Ilford Smooth Pearl for pigment inks.

In any case I get very similar prints with Ilford Smooth Pearl and Epson
Premium Semigloss. I think my curve should work quite well for the Ilford
paper.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

> Many thanks Daniel, I have gone out and bought some Ilford classic
> Pearl after Tom's comments about bronzing when using gloss  as I have
> to get it right this weekend but I will try modifying your curves for
> gloss latter as my printer prefers Kodak way better than Epson papers.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Staver" <daniel@...> 
wrote:
>You are right! many thanks for drawing my attention to it I will 
change it tomorrow and try your curves when my ink arrives. You have 
saved me alot of hassle and panic for this comming Saturday.
Many thanks again

> I may be wrong, but I thought Ilford Classic Pearl was for dye 
inks, and
> that you had to use Ilford Smooth Pearl for pigment inks.
> 
> In any case I get very similar prints with Ilford Smooth Pearl and 
Epson
> Premium Semigloss. I think my curve should work quite well for the 
Ilford
> paper.
> 
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no
> 
> > Many thanks Daniel, I have gone out and bought some Ilford classic
> > Pearl after Tom's comments about bronzing when using gloss  as I 
have
> > to get it right this weekend but I will try modifying your curves 
for
> > gloss latter as my printer prefers Kodak way better than Epson 
papers.
>

That is correct.

Maris

Daniel Staver wrote:
> I may be wrong, but I thought Ilford Classic Pearl was for dye inks,
> and that you had to use Ilford Smooth Pearl for pigment inks.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Maris V. Lidaka Sr." <mlidaka@...> 
wrote:
>Many thanks for pointing this out to me. Changed it today and got a 
bargain ( from another source ) Two Smooth Pearls for the price that I 
paid for a packet of classic - and it looks as though I already have a 
curve for Ilford smooth so things are looking up.
Many thanks

> That is correct.
> 
> Maris
> 
> Daniel Staver wrote:
> > I may be wrong, but I thought Ilford Classic Pearl was for dye inks,
> > and that you had to use Ilford Smooth Pearl for pigment inks.
>