QTR-Quadtone RIP

I wonder if someone compared the dithering of the Epson 3800 vs the
4800 when using QTR. Is the, much advertised, smoother and finer
dithering of the 3800 still visible when printing through QTR or
rather the bypassing of the Epson driver make the dithering of the
3800 and 4800 practically indistinguishable?
Thanks. Cheers,

  Francisco

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "delgadofrancisco51" <delgadofrancisco51@...> 
wrote:
>
> I wonder if someone compared the dithering of the Epson 3800 vs the
> 4800 when using QTR. Is the, much advertised, smoother and finer
> dithering of the 3800 still visible when printing through QTR or
> rather the bypassing of the Epson driver make the dithering of the
> 3800 and 4800 practically indistinguishable?
> Thanks. Cheers,
> 
>   Francisco
>
It is indeed noticeable.

What inks do you use for B&W withthe 3800?  Cone Inks do not support that model yet?
   
  Ralph

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Hi Francisco,

I'd be curious what situation you find noticeably different.
I.e. what inks, what software, what test print, what's the difference.
Can you show a scanned example?

As far as QTR is concerned there's no difference in the dithering software.

Roy

On 10/27/07, oscar.pirulo <oscar.pirulo@...> wrote:
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "delgadofrancisco51" <delgadofrancisco51@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I wonder if someone compared the dithering of the Epson 3800 vs the
> > 4800 when using QTR. Is the, much advertised, smoother and finer
> > dithering of the 3800 still visible when printing through QTR or
> > rather the bypassing of the Epson driver make the dithering of the
> > 3800 and 4800 practically indistinguishable?
> > Thanks. Cheers,
> >
> >   Francisco
> >
> It is indeed noticeable.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Hi Roy, 

  my question was raised by the fact that I need to purchase one of
the two printers and I will do that on the basis of printing quality
and the fact that I planned to use QTR. Therefore, I cannot answer
your question because I haven't done any print yet with any of the
two. I am sorry I cannot be of help. However,  the answer of Oscar
Pirulo hints that he, indeed, tried both of  them. May be he can tell
us more about.

Cheers,
  Francisco 



--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Francisco,
> 
> I'd be curious what situation you find noticeably different.
> I.e. what inks, what software, what test print, what's the difference.
> Can you show a scanned example?
> 
> As far as QTR is concerned there's no difference in the dithering
software.
> 
> Roy
> 
> On 10/27/07, oscar.pirulo <oscar.pirulo@...> wrote:
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "delgadofrancisco51"
<delgadofrancisco51@>

> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I wonder if someone compared the dithering of the Epson 3800 vs the
> > > 4800 when using QTR. Is the, much advertised, smoother and finer
> > > dithering of the 3800 still visible when printing through QTR or
> > > rather the bypassing of the Epson driver make the dithering of the
> > > 3800 and 4800 practically indistinguishable?
> > > Thanks. Cheers,
> > >
> > >   Francisco
> > >
> > It is indeed noticeable.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

I'm also curious about Oscar's answer.   My guess would be that the
print quality
would be similar but I've seen the Epson info and image that implies otherwise.

I think the main differences are:
1) no roll paper in 3800, 4800 has roll support
    (personally I like sheets but some really like rolls)
2) both black inks installed in 3800, expensive to switch in 4800
    (if you stick with one type paper its no issue)
3) 3800 has medium size ink carts 90ml, 4800 has huge 220ml
    probably not significant unless you print a really whole lot
4) 4800 is bigger and heavier.  maybe more durable for lots of use
5) more QTR profiles for the 3800 since I have one

Roy

On 10/28/07, delgadofrancisco51 <delgadofrancisco51@...> wrote:
> Hi Roy,
>
>   my question was raised by the fact that I need to purchase one of
> the two printers and I will do that on the basis of printing quality
> and the fact that I planned to use QTR. Therefore, I cannot answer
> your question because I haven't done any print yet with any of the
> two. I am sorry I cannot be of help. However,  the answer of Oscar
> Pirulo hints that he, indeed, tried both of  them. May be he can tell
> us more about.
>
> Cheers,
>   Francisco
>
>
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Francisco,
> >
> > I'd be curious what situation you find noticeably different.
> > I.e. what inks, what software, what test print, what's the difference.
> > Can you show a scanned example?
> >
> > As far as QTR is concerned there's no difference in the dithering
> software.
> >
> > Roy
> >
> > On 10/27/07, oscar.pirulo <oscar.pirulo@...> wrote:
> > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "delgadofrancisco51"
> <delgadofrancisco51@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I wonder if someone compared the dithering of the Epson 3800 vs the
> > > > 4800 when using QTR. Is the, much advertised, smoother and finer
> > > > dithering of the 3800 still visible when printing through QTR or
> > > > rather the bypassing of the Epson driver make the dithering of the
> > > > 3800 and 4800 practically indistinguishable?
> > > > Thanks. Cheers,
> > > >
> > > >   Francisco
> > > >
> > > It is indeed noticeable.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Roy,  With no 3rd party inks for your 3800, you're running UC inks for B&W?  I sorely want to purchase the 3800, but it looks like those carts will not be avaialable to 3rd party ink makers.
   
  Ralph

 __________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ralph,  I use the UC inks and I'm happy with those.  But if you want
3rd party inks
who knows if/when carts will be available.  If Piezo supplies 3800
carts you'll probably
get profiles but if you go any other way you may also need to do your
own profiles.

Roy

On 10/29/07, Ralph Maratta <rivercom05@...> wrote:
>
> Roy,  With no 3rd party inks for your 3800, you're running UC inks for B&W?  I sorely want to purchase the 3800, but it looks like those carts will not be avaialable to 3rd party ink makers.
>
>   Ralph
>
>  __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

What about the 4800...do you have profiles for some of the popular papers that B&W fine art people sue?
   
  Ralph

Roy Harrington <roy@...> wrote:
          Ralph, I use the UC inks and I'm happy with those. But if you want
3rd party inks
who knows if/when carts will be available. If Piezo supplies 3800
carts you'll probably
get profiles but if you go any other way you may also need to do your
own profiles.

Roy

On 10/29/07, Ralph Maratta <rivercom05@...> wrote:
>
> Roy, With no 3rd party inks for your 3800, you're running UC inks for B&W? I sorely want to purchase the 3800, but it looks like those carts will not be avaialable to 3rd party ink makers.
>
> Ralph
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


                         

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Unfortunately, not much for UC inks.  But of course if you are talking K7 inks
there's a bunch from Cone.

As you can see: the decision tree is pretty complicated!  Everything
is intertwined.

Roy

On 10/29/07, Ralph Maratta <rivercom05@...> wrote:
> What about the 4800...do you have profiles for some of the popular papers that B&W fine art people sue?
>
>   Ralph
>
> Roy Harrington <roy@...> wrote:
>           Ralph, I use the UC inks and I'm happy with those. But if you want
> 3rd party inks
> who knows if/when carts will be available. If Piezo supplies 3800
> carts you'll probably
> get profiles but if you go any other way you may also need to do your
> own profiles.
>
> Roy
>
> On 10/29/07, Ralph Maratta <rivercom05@...> wrote:
> >
> > Roy, With no 3rd party inks for your 3800, you're running UC inks for B&W? I sorely want to purchase the 3800, but it looks like those carts will not be avaialable to 3rd party ink makers.
> >
> > Ralph
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>  __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

>... With no 3rd party inks for your 3800, ...

At the end of September MIS received some 3800 funnel fill test cartridges.
They were looking for beta testers then.  Not having a 3800, I have not
followed up with this.

If there are carts, there are inks.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I wonder how long they will be able to rely on importing cartridges,  
given the constant court challenges by Epson.  This recent one was  
noted this AM on the DPR printing forum:
http://www.wideformatonline.com/content/view/678/86/
Does this recent ruling affect MIS?

Carl

On Oct 29, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Paul Roark wrote:

>> ... With no 3rd party inks for your 3800, ...
>
> At the end of September MIS received some 3800 funnel fill test  
> cartridges.
> They were looking for beta testers then.  Not having a 3800, I have  
> not
> followed up with this.
>
> If there are carts, there are inks.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Carl Schofield wrote:

>I wonder how long they will be able to rely on importing 
>cartridges, given the constant court challenges by Epson.
>This recent one was noted this AM on the DPR printing forum:
> http://www.wideformatonline.com/content/view/678/86/

>Does this recent ruling affect MIS?

Even assuming some companies do not infringe the patents, fewer competitors
probably means higher prices.

Note that I believe the exclusion order should not issue.   Even if they can
qualify as a domestic business due to some subsidiaries here, the law does
not support exclusion by the ITC (as opposed to Epson using normal private
remedies) when competition in the US is damaged, which it will certainly be
if third party ink providers are damaged.

The law provides, in part:

"Section 19 U.S.C. 1337.  Unfair practices in import trade 
...
(d) Exclusion of articles from entry 

(1) If the Commission determine ... that there is a violation of this
section, it shall direct that the articles concerned, imported by any person
violating the provision of this section, be excluded from entry into the
United States, UNLESS [emphasis added], after considering the effect of such
exclusion upon the public health and welfare, competitive conditions in the
United States economy, the production of like or directly competitive
articles in the United States, and United States consumers, it finds that
such articles should not be excluded from entry..."

At this point it's more political than anything, which may be why Epson put
some sort of facility in Texas.  Pardon my cynicism.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

On Oct 29, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Paul Roark wrote:

>>> ... With no 3rd party inks for your 3800, ...
>
>> At the end of September MIS received some 3800 funnel fill 
>>test  cartridges.
>> They were looking for beta testers then. ...

The real worry in this is the extensions.

Are camera lens mounts patent, so can they stop alternative manufactures, similarly other accessories?

Then our cars, must we go to the manufacturer for spares, or will other outlets be still able to sell equivalent items?  

If one industry gets their toe in, who knows where it will stop.

Epson could even look at printer drivers?  

Jim Thyer

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Carl Schofield 
  To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:18 AM
  Subject: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Dithering of Epson 3800 vs 4800 with QTR


  I wonder how long they will be able to rely on importing cartridges, 
  given the constant court challenges by Epson. This recent one was 
  noted this AM on the DPR printing forum:
  http://www.wideformatonline.com/content/view/678/86/
  Does this recent ruling affect MIS?

  Carl

  On Oct 29, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Paul Roark wrote:

  >> ... With no 3rd party inks for your 3800, ...
  >
  > At the end of September MIS received some 3800 funnel fill test 
  > cartridges.
  > They were looking for beta testers then. Not having a 3800, I have 
  > not
  > followed up with this.
  >
  > If there are carts, there are inks.
  >
  > Paul
  > www.PaulRoark.com



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Roy:

I have made two unsuccessful attempts to unsubscribe to this list,  
the most recent yesterday.  Can you help me.

Thanks

On Oct 28, 2007, at 1:06 PM, Roy Harrington wrote:

> Hi Francisco,
>
> I'd be curious what situation you find noticeably different.
> I.e. what inks, what software, what test print, what's the difference.
> Can you show a scanned example?
>
> As far as QTR is concerned there's no difference in the dithering  
> software.
>
> Roy
>
> On 10/27/07, oscar.pirulo <oscar.pirulo@...> wrote:
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "delgadofrancisco51"  
> <delgadofrancisco51@...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I wonder if someone compared the dithering of the Epson 3800 vs  
> the
> > > 4800 when using QTR. Is the, much advertised, smoother and finer
> > > dithering of the 3800 still visible when printing through QTR or
> > > rather the bypassing of the Epson driver make the dithering of the
> > > 3800 and 4800 practically indistinguishable?
> > > Thanks. Cheers,
> > >
> > > Francisco
> > >
> > It is indeed noticeable.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Del,

I removed you from the list.

Thanks,

Tom Husband
(a moderator)

On 11/1/07, Del Bomberger <delbomberger@...> wrote:
>
> Roy:
>
> I have made two unsuccessful attempts to unsubscribe to this list,
> the most recent yesterday.  Can you help me.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]