QTR-Quadtone RIP

Carl brought this to attention here some days ago. It turns out there
is a very good chance this will effect us all. Please take a look at
Jon's post here-

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/piezography3000/message/28031

thanks,
Tyler

Oh!  This is a serious threat to all of us and most definitely to  
those like me who make a living using quadtone and septone inks. I  
thought this kind of thing was illegal. Didn't Epson loose this case a  
while back? I am totally outraged. I'm pulling out all the stops on  
this one. Anyone here who knows the right people, make your voice  
heard. It effects us all and could very well effect a very large  
number of photographers and companies down to road.

Refer to Jon Cone's post.

take car, Walker

I own 2 Epson printers (2200 and the 4000).  Both are prone to 
clogging which to clear the clog requires a very expensive purge of 
ink.  What I would love to do is dump both printers but I feel I 
can't since most of the software that I use (QTR for instance) is 
aimed primarily at Epson products.  Is there any documentation on how 
to use QTR with Canon's or HP's line of printers????  Are there any 
profiles for Canon or HP???

I would also like to ask why I haven't seen any 3rd party inks that 
target printers other then Epson?  I think the industry has no one to 
blame but themselves in this case.  If you target one manufacture the 
result is as what Epson has done.

I say dump Epson.  =) 
   


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote:
>
> Carl brought this to attention here some days ago. It turns out 
there

> is a very good chance this will effect us all. Please take a look at
> Jon's post here-
> 
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/piezography3000/message/28031
> 
> thanks,
> Tyler
>

In a message dated 11/1/2007 1:59:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
tyler@... writes:

Carl  brought this to attention here some days ago. It turns out there
is a very  good chance this will effect us all. Please take a look at
Jon's post  here-

_http://tech.http://tech.http://techttp://tech.<WBRhttp://tech._ 
(http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/piezography3000/message/28031) 

thanks,
Tyler


 
I was not able to open the article/post. What does it say?
 
Thanks




************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Walker Blackwell <forums@...> wrote:
...
> take car, Walker

I'll be right there for it Walker, what model and year?


For those who can't get to the link, click a few times and joing the
darn group. Anyone wanting to be well rounded with B&W and QTR should
be a member anyway.

Tyler

In a message dated 11/1/2007 3:51:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
tyler@... writes:

I'll  be right there for it Walker, what model and year?

For those who can't  get to the link, click a few times and joing the
darn group. Anyone wanting  to be well rounded with B&W and QTR should
be a member  anyway.

Tyler


I tried doing just that several times but for some reason  it wouldn't work: 
It wouldn't accept any password I created! 
 
Can you at least give us a sysnopsis of what was said?
 
Thanks



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, sloopjohne@... wrote:
...
>  
> Can you at least give us a sysnopsis of what was said?
>  
> Thanks

per Jon's permission...



Who would have known that something like this could happen in America?

Unfortunately after reviewing nearly 500 pages of the court ruling as
well as the ITC ruling, it is clear that this affects every company in
the USA that imports either empty, filled, or CIS cartridges for
desktop printers. It does not affect large format.

EPSON set up this website to bring it to the attention of all
cartridge resellers: http://itc.epson.com/

This ruling only affects the USA and is now dependent upon the
President of the USA, George W Bush, signing it into law - which is
expected. It affects all desktop cartridges which have a chip parallel
to the front of the cartridge but not the chip itself, the port
through which ink feeds into the ink stem of the printer, and the
device which holds the cartridge into the printer, also cartridges
with foam or a bladder/valve. In short it covers all 750 models of
EPSON products but only for the desktop. And yes CIS are affected. The
end result being none of these cartridges will be allowed into the USA
after the President signs it into law.

It does give one pause to think that patent law has become more
important in the USA than anti-trust law, and this may signal the
beginning of entities rushing patents not in order to make innovation
but rather to produce monopolies. It is a totally anti-competitive
action which has occurred and is unfortunately a symptom of what is
happening in the USA that affects people across all party lines. In
short it affects every average US citizen, whether they are a
photographer using monochromatic inks to replace the darkroom
materials which are no longer manufactured, a scrap-booker trying to
save money on their hobby, or the retiree that prints coffee mugs and
mouse pads with dye-sublimation inks to augment their social security.

Can you or anyone do anything?

The International Trade Commission was charged with the below burden
but may not have been presented with any evidence as to how it
affected the USA because only a single surviving Chinese company was
represented:

-------
"If the Commission contemplates some form of remedy, it must consider
the effects of that remedy upon the public interest. The factors the
Commission will consider include the effect that an exclusion order
and/or cease and desist orders would have on (1) the public health and
welfare, (2) competitive conditions in the U.S. economy, (3) U.S.
production of articles that are like or directly competitive with
those that are subject to investigation, and (4) U.S. consumers.

If the Commission orders some form of remedy, the President has 60
days to approve or disapprove the Commission's action."
-------

So, if you think that the your welfare is affected by the ITC decision
or that competitive conditions will be affected, etc, you should
quickly write the President of the United States and reference this on
both your envelope and the letterhead:

RE: International Trade Commission 337 Investigation No. 337-TA-565


Please write the President. You have only a short time to act.



start it thus:


------------

President George W. Bush
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

[enter date here]

RE: International Trade Commission 337 Investigation No. 337-TA-565

Dear Mr. President,

I am writing to you concerning the October 19, 2007 decision by the
International Trade Commission concerning the Section 337
Investigation in the Matter of Certain Ink Cartridges and Components
Thereof (Inv. No.337-TA-565). Their decision is now coming to you for
your approval, of which I hope you pause to reflect upon, and do not sign.

The ITC decision adversely affects me because...[ this is where you
write the because and you should speak of how it directly affects you
or your business.]

...and dont forget to sign it!

------------


If you know someone high up on the media chain - make a phone call to
them. Its a very newsworthy story that is being kept very quiet right
now, probably so as not to upset what is seen as the inevitable
signing into law of this historic ruling on consumables. Anti-trust
law used to prevent this from happening. I can only imagine what other
foreign and usa corporations will also attempt to monopolize a piece
of the American economy.

OPTIONS:

1) We recommend for our desktop users to look online for a supplier of
CIS systems so they can be prepared to switch to bottles.

2) InkjetMall will be contacting its customers with a special offer to
encourage them to upgrade to large format systems which are not
affected by this ruling.

3) Save your current carts and learn how to take a syringe, draw a
vacuum and refill from a bottle. A chip resetter available on the
internet will refresh the ink memory chip. It may be necessary to
temporarily tape over the ink outlet port in order to draw a
sufficient vacuum.

Of course, our European customers will be able to continue purchasing
our desktop cartridges from our European resellers, but our European
resellers will not be allowed to sell them to USA customers according
to this ruling so this is not an option for USA customers. We can
continue to purchase and fill inks for desktop in our overseas
location for our European customers.



best regards,

Jon Cone

>
> ...
> "> take car, Walker"
>
> "I'll be right there for it Walker, what model and year?"
>







What a day. Typing way too fast. My blood pressure was through the  
roof when I was reading that. Some days I wish somebody could just  
take it. It's a 1989 Toyota AllTrack. Sporty huh. ;-)  But for the  
winters in Vermont it's a good'un.

take care,
Walker




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jon's suggestion to write the president is excellent and I intend to do so. I would also like to 
point out that one may email the president at president@....

Robert

If you choose that path, make sure you include a Name and full address. 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  

From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of smallformat
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 5:31 PM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: please read

 

Jon's suggestion to write the president is excellent and I intend to do so.
I would also like to 
point out that one may email the president at president@whitehous
<mailto:president%40whitehouse.gov> e.gov.

Robert

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

(Cross post from B&W forum)

(Legal thoughts - slightly OT)

The law in this matter states, in relevant part:

"Section 19 U.S.C. 1337. Unfair practices in import trade

.

(d) Exclusion of articles from entry 

(1) If the Commission determines. that there is a violation of this section,
it shall direct that the articles concerned, imported by any person
violating the provision of this section, be excluded from entry into the
United States, 

* unless, * [emphasis added]

after considering the effect of such exclusion upon the public health and
welfare, competitive conditions in the United States economy, the production
of like or directly competitive articles in the United States, and United
States consumers, it finds that such articles should not be excluded from
entry. ."

Writing letters that alert the politicians to a large constituency that
thinks this action will harm competition might be effective. The letters
should key into this section and the fact that competition in ink resale
market will be adversely affected by an exclusion order.

The letters should vary their wording so that they are not identified as a
mass mailing.

Letters to agencies get more attention if they are via a congressional
(House or Senate) representative. I'm not sure if anything can get the
attention of this White House.

The issues are very complex. Don't challenge the law or the patents. Use
them to your effect.

The *NET* competitive effect is the issue. "Competition," not the survival
of a competitor is the issue. Epson's competition with HP and Canon is
included.

Prohibitions against "tying" agreements, in that past (IBM punch card case),
would have knocked this down, but "modern" (heavily influenced by Chicago
School economics) antitrust does not trust "per se" theories and looks at a
"bigger" ("rule of reason") picture of competition. In theory this is
great, but in practice, the issues become so complex that the side with the
most money to hire the best lawyers (and lobbyists, etc.) often has a huge
advantage. 

Healthy horizontal competition among HP, Canon and Epson is probably a major
part of the big picture the policy makers are hearing about, and it's very
intense. Did you notice Kodak is explicitly competing on ink price?

"Below cost" sales prohibitions might have in the past stopped the
loss-leader character of competition that has developed. But that approach
is also discredited. 

We can't really expect to be able to free ride on below cost sales of Epson
printers. 

One pro-competitive argument that is being increasingly getting attention is
that innovation is a factor to be considered.

Even if Epson succeeds in keeping out most carts, I think the CIS/CFS
business will survive, and large format cartridge refilling will probably
remain viable. Third party ink sales will continue, but maybe not as well
in some markets as today. 

I wonder if software can even totally circumvent the chips and carts.

It's not over for users and innovative businesses.

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com

(& Former FTC antitrust enforcer)

In a message dated 11/1/2007 5:02:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
tyler@... writes:

 
 
 
--- In _QuadtoneRIP@QuadtoneRIP@Qua_ (mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com) ,  
sloopjohne@.,  slo
...
> 
> Can you at least give us a  sysnopsis of what was said?
> 
> Thanks

per Jon's  permission..p

Who would have known that something like this could  happen in America?

Unfortunately after reviewing nearly 500 pages of  the court ruling as
well as the ITC ruling, it is clear that this affects  every company in
the USA that imports either empty, filled, or CIS  cartridges for
desktop printers. It does not affect large  format.

EPSON set up this website to bring it to the attention of  all
cartridge resellers: _http://itc.epson.http_ (http://itc.epson.com/) 

This ruling  only affects the USA and is now dependent upon the
President of the USA,  George W Bush, signing it into law - which is
expected. It affects all  desktop cartridges which have a chip parallel
to the front of the cartridge  but not the chip itself, the port
through which ink feeds into the ink stem  of the printer, and the
device which holds the cartridge into the printer,  also cartridges
with foam or a bladder/valve. In short it covers all 750  models of
EPSON products but only for the desktop. And yes CIS are  affected. The
end result being none of these cartridges will be allowed  into the USA
after the President signs it into law.

It does give one  pause to think that patent law has become more
important in the USA than  anti-trust law, and this may signal the
beginning of entities rushing  patents not in order to make innovation
but rather to produce monopolies.  It is a totally anti-competitive
action which has occurred and is  unfortunately a symptom of what is
happening in the USA that affects people  across all party lines. In
short it affects every average US citizen,  whether they are a
photographer using monochromatic inks to replace the  darkroom
materials which are no longer manufactured, a scrap-booker trying  to
save money on their hobby, or the retiree that prints coffee mugs  and
mouse pads with dye-sublimation inks to augment their social  security.

Can you or anyone do anything?

The International Trade  Commission was charged with the below burden
but may not have been  presented with any evidence as to how it
affected the USA because only a  single surviving Chinese company was
represented:

-------
"If the  Commission contemplates some form of remedy, it must consider
the effects  of that remedy upon the public interest. The factors the
Commission will  consider include the effect that an exclusion order
and/or cease and desist  orders would have on (1) the public health and
welfare, (2) competitive  conditions in the U.S. economy, (3) U.S.
production of articles that are  like or directly competitive with
those that are subject to investigation,  and (4) U.S. consumers.

If the Commission orders some form of remedy,  the President has 60
days to approve or disapprove the Commission's  action."
-------

So, if you think that the your welfare is affected  by the ITC decision
or that competitive conditions will be affected, etc,  you should
quickly write the President of the United States and reference  this on
both your envelope and the letterhead:

RE: International  Trade Commission 337 Investigation No. 337-TA-565

Please write the  President. You have only a short time to act.

start it  thus:

------------

President George W. Bush
The White  House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

[enter  date here]

RE: International Trade Commission 337 Investigation No.  337-TA-565

Dear Mr. President,

I am writing to you concerning  the October 19, 2007 decision by the
International Trade Commission  concerning the Section 337
Investigation in the Matter of Certain Ink  Cartridges and Components
Thereof (Inv. No.337-TA-565)Thereof (Inv. No.337-TA-565)<WBR>. Their deci
your approval, of which I hope you pause to  reflect upon, and do not sign.

The ITC decision adversely affects me  because...[ this is where you
write the because and you should speak of how  it directly affects you
or your business.]

...and dont forget to  sign it!

------------

If you know someone high up on the media  chain - make a phone call to
them. Its a very newsworthy story that is  being kept very quiet right
now, probably so as not to upset what is seen  as the inevitable
signing into law of this historic ruling on consumables.  Anti-trust
law used to prevent this from happening. I can only imagine what  other
foreign and usa corporations will also attempt to monopolize a  piece
of the American economy.

OPTIONS:

1) We recommend for  our desktop users to look online for a supplier of
CIS systems so they can  be prepared to switch to bottles.

2) InkjetMall will be contacting its  customers with a special offer to
encourage them to upgrade to large format  systems which are not
affected by this ruling.

3) Save your current  carts and learn how to take a syringe, draw a
vacuum and refill from a  bottle. A chip resetter available on the
internet will refresh the ink  memory chip. It may be necessary to
temporarily tape over the ink outlet  port in order to draw a
sufficient vacuum.

Of course, our European  customers will be able to continue purchasing
our desktop cartridges from  our European resellers, but our European
resellers will not be allowed to  sell them to USA customers according
to this ruling so this is not an  option for USA customers. We can
continue to purchase and fill inks for  desktop in our overseas
location for our European customers.

best  regards,

Jon Cone






Thanks mucho for this, Tyler.  This is a very serious problem  indeed!
 
John E



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Excellent advice, Paul. May I post your thoughts elsewhere?

Some of you may be interested in the "discussion" flaring up over this topic on photo.net:

http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00N9xb

Robert

Feel free to post my comments anywhere.  I also noted on the B&W forum that
Epson has filed a second lawsuit going after the large format carts.  Also,
the high HP profitability from its ink sales tends to help argue that the
market is not functioning in a manner that is totally consistent with
"perfect competition."

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  

From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of smallformat
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 6:00 AM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: please read

 

Excellent advice, Paul. May I post your thoughts elsewhere?

Some of you may be interested in the "discussion" flaring up over this topic
on photo.net:

http://photo. <http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00N9xb>
net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00N9xb

Robert 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm not sure it will make any difference, but I'm writing to the President, and
would encourage everyone else to also. Here's the letter I'm sending. I'm sure a
much better letter could be written, but this is what I have time for right now.

--Daniel

President George W. Bush
The White House 1600
Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

November 4, 2007

Re: ITC Ruling Regarding Epson Cartridges

Dear Mr. President,

I am writing to you about the October 19, 2007 decision of the International
Trade Commission (Section 337; Investigation in the Matter of Certain Ink
Cartridges and Components Thereof; Inv. No. 337-TA-565), which must
apparently receive your explicit approval before becoming law.

The ruling essentially prevents any third-party manufacturers from competing
with Epson on ink cartridges. The issues at stake here do not involve complex
technology; the ruling covers the simple, external physical features of the
cartridge that must be matched to ensure compatibility.

Allowing such a ruling to pass would severely damage the free market in ink and
cartridges, and would give Epson a monopoly on Epson-compatible ink
cartridges. This is like allowing a flashlight manufacturer to prevent third parties
from competing on batteries.

The ruling would have 3 bad consequences for the US economy. First, Epson's
monopoly would allow it to increase prices with impunity. Second, it would
damage the network of domestic companies that provide Epson-compatible inks
and cartridges. Third -- and this is my own personal concern -- it would cripple
the market in specialty inks that serious photographers rely on for which Epson
has no comparable product. 

A large community of black-and-white photographers use Epson printers with
specialized high-quality inks designed and manufactured by small US
companies, such as MIS Associates (of Michigan), Cone Editions (of Vermont), and
Media Street (of New York). The ruling would prevent these companies from
selling empty cartridges, and would thus undermine their ability to sell their
inks. The entire industry of specialty black and white inks is threatened by this
ruling.

I hope therefore that you will choose to preserve a free market in this area, and
protect an important domestic community of consumers and manufacturers, by
not signing the order.

Yours sincerely,

Daniel Jackson