QTR-Quadtone RIP

Hi,
I was wondering if 2880 uses more ink than 1440 super. Or are they just smaller dots amounting to the same amount of ink?

Thanks,
Richard
--
Backroads Essay:
http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/TheBackroadsOfWarkworth
Greeting Cards available for purchase:
http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/GreetingCards
http://photos.smallfield.vze.com
http://smallfield.vze.com

   "A conservative is a man who believes that nothing should be 
   done for the first time."
   --Alfred E. Wiggam

For the same density on the paper different resolutions use the same
volume of ink.
You may need to change INK LIMITS for different resolutions to get the
same density.

Roy

On Feb 3, 2008 5:18 PM, Richard Smallfield <r.smallfield@...> wrote:
> Hi,
> I was wondering if 2880 uses more ink than 1440 super. Or are they just smaller dots amounting to the same amount of ink?
>
> Thanks,
> Richard
> --
> Backroads Essay:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/TheBackroadsOfWarkworth
> Greeting Cards available for purchase:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/GreetingCards
> http://photos.smallfield.vze.com
> http://smallfield.vze.com
>
>    "A conservative is a man who believes that nothing should be
>    done for the first time."
>    --Alfred E. Wiggam
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Roy & Richard, 
This is also something that that I too would like to understand 
better.  
Just this week I've started using the Piezography K7 Selenium inks 
with the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag paper on an Epson 2200.
  Tests with 1440 super and 2880, on close inspection, did show more 
detail in the highlights with the 2880.
Because of the number of prints I need at this time and the $$ of 
ink I chose to use the 1440 super setting.
  For future use would you make suggestions as to INK LIMITS, how 
would I know what adjustments, settings to make? 

Thank you and best regards.
Kathleen    

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@...> wrote:
>
> For the same density on the paper different resolutions use the 
same
> volume of ink.
> You may need to change INK LIMITS for different resolutions to get 
the
> same density.
> 
> Roy
> 
> On Feb 3, 2008 5:18 PM, Richard Smallfield <r.smallfield@...> 
wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I was wondering if 2880 uses more ink than 1440 super. Or are 
they just smaller dots amounting to the same amount of ink?

> >
> > Thanks,
> > Richard
> > --
> > Backroads Essay:
> > http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/TheBackroadsOfWarkworth
> > Greeting Cards available for purchase:
> > http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/GreetingCards
> > http://photos.smallfield.vze.com
> > http://smallfield.vze.com
> >
> >    "A conservative is a man who believes that nothing should be
> >    done for the first time."
> >    --Alfred E. Wiggam
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Kathleen Duxbury" <kd@...> wrote:
>
> Roy & Richard, 
> This is also something that that I too would like to understand 
> better.  
> Just this week I've started using the Piezography K7 Selenium inks 
> with the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag paper on an Epson 2200.
>   Tests with 1440 super and 2880, on close inspection, did show 
more 
> detail in the highlights with the 2880.
> Because of the number of prints I need at this time and the $$ of 
> ink I chose to use the 1440 super setting.
>   For future use would you make suggestions as to INK LIMITS, how 
> would I know what adjustments, settings to make? 
> 
> Thank you and best regards.
> Kathleen    
> 

i've read somewhere that one advantage to 2880 is a higher dmax with 
more ink in the shadow areas.  don't know if that principle only 
applies to certain papers and inks and if piezo k7 selenium would 
respond or not but it sounds like a reasonable hypothesis.  you just 
need to do some testing, i guess.

Yes, you are right, As I am new to the Piezo inks I will need to do 
more tests.
But I did see a difference with more detail in the highlighted areas 
using the 2880. 
Thank you.
Kathleen

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "c1asia" <c1asia@...> wrote:
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Kathleen Duxbury" <kd@> wrote:
> >
> > Roy & Richard, 
> > This is also something that that I too would like to understand 
> > better.  
> > Just this week I've started using the Piezography K7 Selenium 
inks 
> > with the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag paper on an Epson 2200.
> >   Tests with 1440 super and 2880, on close inspection, did show 
> more 
> > detail in the highlights with the 2880.
> > Because of the number of prints I need at this time and the $$ 
of 
> > ink I chose to use the 1440 super setting.
> >   For future use would you make suggestions as to INK LIMITS, 
how 
> > would I know what adjustments, settings to make? 
> > 
> > Thank you and best regards.
> > Kathleen    
> > 
> 
> i've read somewhere that one advantage to 2880 is a higher dmax 
with 
> more ink in the shadow areas.  don't know if that principle only 
> applies to certain papers and inks and if piezo k7 selenium would 
> respond or not but it sounds like a reasonable hypothesis.  you 
just 
> need to do some testing, i guess.
>

>   Tests with 1440 super and 2880, on close inspection, did show more 
> detail in the highlights with the 2880.
> Because of the number of prints I need at this time and the $$ of 
> ink I chose to use the 1440 super setting.
>   For future use would you make suggestions as to INK LIMITS, how 
> would I know what adjustments, settings to make? 

The main difference I found had to do with Dmax. Apparently QTR gives a 
considerably better Dmax with 2880 (This with MIS Ebony). Ink limits 
and settings will depend on individual papers.

Dario

Unless you are making your own ink setups and profiles for 1440, and
directly comparing to your results from your own ink setups and
profiles made similarly at 2880, results won't mean much.
Only 2880 curves were provided, while using them at 1440 may work, but
it will undoubtedly not be linearized optimally.
Tyler

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Kathleen Duxbury" <kd@...> wrote:

>
> Yes, you are right, As I am new to the Piezo inks I will need to do 
> more tests.
> But I did see a difference with more detail in the highlighted areas 
> using the 2880. 
> Thank you.
> Kathleen
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "c1asia" <c1asia@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Kathleen Duxbury" <kd@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Roy & Richard, 
> > > This is also something that that I too would like to understand 
> > > better.  
> > > Just this week I've started using the Piezography K7 Selenium 
> inks 
> > > with the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag paper on an Epson 2200.
> > >   Tests with 1440 super and 2880, on close inspection, did show 
> > more 
> > > detail in the highlights with the 2880.
> > > Because of the number of prints I need at this time and the $$ 
> of 
> > > ink I chose to use the 1440 super setting.
> > >   For future use would you make suggestions as to INK LIMITS, 
> how 
> > > would I know what adjustments, settings to make? 
> > > 
> > > Thank you and best regards.
> > > Kathleen    
> > > 
> > 
> > i've read somewhere that one advantage to 2880 is a higher dmax 
> with 
> > more ink in the shadow areas.  don't know if that principle only 
> > applies to certain papers and inks and if piezo k7 selenium would 
> > respond or not but it sounds like a reasonable hypothesis.  you 
> just 
> > need to do some testing, i guess.
> >
>

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote:
>
> Unless you are making your own ink setups and profiles for 1440, and
> directly comparing to your results from your own ink setups and
> profiles made similarly at 2880, results won't mean much.
> Only 2880 curves were provided, while using them at 1440 may work, 
but
> it will undoubtedly not be linearized optimally.
> Tyler
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Kathleen Duxbury" <kd@> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, you are right, As I am new to the Piezo inks I will need to 
do 
> > more tests.
> > But I did see a difference with more detail in the highlighted 
areas 
> > using the 2880. 
> > Thank you.
> > Kathleen
> > 
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "c1asia" <c1asia@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Kathleen Duxbury" <kd@> 
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Roy & Richard, 
> > > > This is also something that that I too would like to 
understand 
> > > > better.  
> > > > Just this week I've started using the Piezography K7 Selenium 
> > inks 
> > > > with the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag paper on an Epson 2200.
> > > >   Tests with 1440 super and 2880, on close inspection, did 
show 
> > > more 
> > > > detail in the highlights with the 2880.
> > > > Because of the number of prints I need at this time and the 
$$ 
> > of 
> > > > ink I chose to use the 1440 super setting.
> > > >   For future use would you make suggestions as to INK LIMITS, 
> > how 
> > > > would I know what adjustments, settings to make? 
> > > > 
> > > > Thank you and best regards.
> > > > Kathleen    
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > i've read somewhere that one advantage to 2880 is a higher dmax 
> > with 
> > > more ink in the shadow areas.  don't know if that principle 
only 
> > > applies to certain papers and inks and if piezo k7 selenium 
would 
> > > respond or not but it sounds like a reasonable hypothesis.  you 
> > just 
> > > need to do some testing, i guess.
> > >
> >
>



that's an interesting point, tyler.  thanks.  hadn't occurred to me 
that curves would be different for the two output resolutions.  makes 
sense.  does that also mean that any other changes to settings would 
require custom curves as well (e.g., rendering intent, 
unidirectional, gray gamma, etc.)?  or are we splitting hairs on some 
of these?  i guess i should ask, which settings are the sensitive 
ones that requires a custom curve?  the canned profiles provided by 
paper manufacturers, are most of these 1440 or 2880?  i guess there's 
no way of knowing what settings they're using when they developed 
these, huh?

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "c1asia" <c1asia@...> wrote:
>...
> 
> that's an interesting point, tyler.  thanks.  hadn't occurred to me 
> that curves would be different for the two output resolutions.  makes 
> sense.  does that also mean that any other changes to settings would 
> require custom curves as well (e.g., rendering intent, 
> unidirectional, gray gamma, etc.)?  or are we splitting hairs on some 
> of these?  i guess i should ask, which settings are the sensitive 
> ones that requires a custom curve?

it would take extensive testing with all the settings to determine the
answers. The only safe bet is to strictly adhere to the provider's
instructions for all of the settings in QTR for their curves/profiles.
You are of course free to use any settings you want, it's just that
the work they did to perfect those curves/profiles to accepted
standards goes out the window, and you are on your own.
That can be fun, or just a big waste of your time.

> the canned profiles provided by 
> paper manufacturers, are most of these 1440 or 2880?  i guess there's 
> no way of knowing what settings they're using when they developed 
> these, huh?

To my knowledge none of the paper manufacturers provide any profiles
or QTR setups for the K7 inksets. They are all provided by Cone, as
well as specific instructions for use.
For standard OEM inksets, the paper manufacturers often do supply
profiles, and should also provide specific driver settings for their use.
If not, I'd be suspect of their approach to color management, and the
quality of their profiles. Sometimes you have to look around for them,
but the few I've looked at like Hahna-sick-of-spelling-it did have a
pdf at the profiles site on the topic.
Tyler


>

Tyler Boley wrote:
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "c1asia" <c1asia@...> wrote:
>>...
>> 
>> that's an interesting point, tyler.  thanks.  hadn't occurred to me 
>> that curves would be different for the two output resolutions.  makes 
>> sense.  does that also mean that any other changes to settings would 
>> require custom curves as well (e.g., rendering intent, 
>> unidirectional, gray gamma, etc.)?  or are we splitting hairs on some 
>> of these?  i guess i should ask, which settings are the sensitive 
>> ones that requires a custom curve?
> 
> it would take extensive testing with all the settings to determine the
> answers. The only safe bet is to strictly adhere to the provider's
> instructions for all of the settings in QTR for their curves/profiles.
> You are of course free to use any settings you want, it's just that
> the work they did to perfect those curves/profiles to accepted
> standards goes out the window, and you are on your own.
> That can be fun, or just a big waste of your time.
> 

The general rule that I think most have followed is that curves are 
designed for 1440dpi unless the name or notes specify otherwise. For 
example a Cone curve for the R2400 is named K7-2880-EpEnhancedMatte & 
was designed for 2880dpi.

Howard