QTR-Quadtone RIP

Is linearization done on a 'per printer' basis, done once with any
paper for a given printer, or is done 'per paper', and part of the
profiling process of each paper?

=Alan R.

Alan,
Linearization is done on a per paper basis.

It is the profile used by QTR for that paper.

Based on experimentation and reading here on this forum I arrived at the following 
process;

1) Select an existing profile text file that approximates the paper you want to profile and 
delete the Linearization line at the end of the file and save with a unique name.

2) find the best Dmax by printing 100% black squares with several paper settings i.e. 
Premium Gloss Photo Paper, Premium Luster Photo Paper, etc. at 1440 as well as 2880 
using the file you created in 1 for the curve.

I positioned the ink swatch on the paper by clicking center image off and then setting a 
margin to create a row of swatches at the various setting.

These samples are all printed with No Color Management set in the printer dialog.

This is tedious but important. I let the samples dry for about 2 hours before reading them 
with my Spyder Spectrometer.

3) Once the best Dmax paper, resolution setting is found. use that paper and resolution to 
print the 21 X 4 step wedge using the curve created in 1.

4) Let the test print dry for a minimum 2 hours, over night is optimum, then read it and do 
the linearization.

5) Copy the Linearization line from the text file and paste it into the file you made in 1 
above and save the file as your curve file for the paper.

6) Copy the file into the printer profiles folder and "install the printer".

7) Once the curve is installed I save a preset for QTR that has the paper selection, 
resolution setting and curve. I name the preset to reflect what paper it is to simplify my 
printing.


Trust this helps.

There may be a better way to do this that someone more experienced can offer.

Have fun learning QTR --- the B&W prints it produces are great.

Regards,
David

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "handyman856" <avr@...> wrote:

>
> Is linearization done on a 'per printer' basis, done once with any
> paper for a given printer, or is done 'per paper', and part of the
> profiling process of each paper?
> 
> =Alan R.
>

This method may work if the best black ink density for the new paper 
matches that of the paper whose existing profile you use.

However a better way to optimise dmax and take out some of the guesswork 
is to standardise on one paper setting & resolution and print one of the 
ink separation tifs in calibration mode. See the file 'QuadToneRIP User 
Guide.pdf' in the qtr folder for more details.

Howard


dmwket wrote:

> Alan,
> Linearization is done on a per paper basis.
> 
> It is the profile used by QTR for that paper.
> 
> Based on experimentation and reading here on this forum I arrived at the following 
> process;
> 
> 1) Select an existing profile text file that approximates the paper you want to profile and 
> delete the Linearization line at the end of the file and save with a unique name.
> 
> 2) find the best Dmax by printing 100% black squares with several paper settings i.e. 
> Premium Gloss Photo Paper, Premium Luster Photo Paper, etc. at 1440 as well as 2880 
> using the file you created in 1 for the curve.
> 
> I positioned the ink swatch on the paper by clicking center image off and then setting a 
> margin to create a row of swatches at the various setting.
> 
> These samples are all printed with No Color Management set in the printer dialog.
> 
> This is tedious but important. I let the samples dry for about 2 hours before reading them 
> with my Spyder Spectrometer.
> 
> 3) Once the best Dmax paper, resolution setting is found. use that paper and resolution to 
> print the 21 X 4 step wedge using the curve created in 1.
> 
> 4) Let the test print dry for a minimum 2 hours, over night is optimum, then read it and do 
> the linearization.
> 
> 5) Copy the Linearization line from the text file and paste it into the file you made in 1 
> above and save the file as your curve file for the paper.
> 
> 6) Copy the file into the printer profiles folder and "install the printer".
> 
> 7) Once the curve is installed I save a preset for QTR that has the paper selection, 
> resolution setting and curve. I name the preset to reflect what paper it is to simplify my 
> printing.
> 
> 
> Trust this helps.
> 
> There may be a better way to do this that someone more experienced can offer.
> 
> Have fun learning QTR --- the B&W prints it produces are great.
> 
> Regards,
> David
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "handyman856" <avr@...> wrote:
>>
>> Is linearization done on a 'per printer' basis, done once with any
>> paper for a given printer, or is done 'per paper', and part of the
>> profiling process of each paper?
>> 
>> =Alan R.
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>

Dave, Howard --- Tks for the tips. Will dig in and start with the
profiles in the FILES section.

=Alan R.



--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "handyman856" <avr@...> wrote:

>
> Is linearization done on a 'per printer' basis, done once with any
> paper for a given printer, or is done 'per paper', and part of the
> profiling process of each paper?
> 
> =Alan R.
>

Howard,
It is my understanding from reading the material that the Ink Separation calibration is a 
printer specific, not paper specific calibration.

I did that calibration before starting the per paper profiling I described.

It is important to remember that that has to be accomplished as well. Thanks for pointing 
it out.

What drove me to doing the detailed profiling I described here is the lack of Dmax with 
the default matte paper selection even after doing the Separation calibration.

Regards,
David


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
>
> This method may work if the best black ink density for the new paper 
> matches that of the paper whose existing profile you use.
> 
> However a better way to optimise dmax and take out some of the guesswork 
> is to standardise on one paper setting & resolution and print one of the 
> ink separation tifs in calibration mode. See the file 'QuadToneRIP User 
> Guide.pdf' in the qtr folder for more details.
> 
> Howard
> 
> 
> dmwket wrote:
> > Alan,
> > Linearization is done on a per paper basis.
> > 
> > It is the profile used by QTR for that paper.
> > 
> > Based on experimentation and reading here on this forum I arrived at the following 
> > process;
> > 
> > 1) Select an existing profile text file that approximates the paper you want to profile 
and 
> > delete the Linearization line at the end of the file and save with a unique name.
> > 
> > 2) find the best Dmax by printing 100% black squares with several paper settings i.e. 
> > Premium Gloss Photo Paper, Premium Luster Photo Paper, etc. at 1440 as well as 
2880 
> > using the file you created in 1 for the curve.
> > 
> > I positioned the ink swatch on the paper by clicking center image off and then setting 
a 
> > margin to create a row of swatches at the various setting.
> > 
> > These samples are all printed with No Color Management set in the printer dialog.
> > 
> > This is tedious but important. I let the samples dry for about 2 hours before reading 
them 
> > with my Spyder Spectrometer.
> > 
> > 3) Once the best Dmax paper, resolution setting is found. use that paper and 
resolution to 
> > print the 21 X 4 step wedge using the curve created in 1.
> > 
> > 4) Let the test print dry for a minimum 2 hours, over night is optimum, then read it 
and do 
> > the linearization.
> > 
> > 5) Copy the Linearization line from the text file and paste it into the file you made in 
1 
> > above and save the file as your curve file for the paper.
> > 
> > 6) Copy the file into the printer profiles folder and "install the printer".
> > 
> > 7) Once the curve is installed I save a preset for QTR that has the paper selection, 
> > resolution setting and curve. I name the preset to reflect what paper it is to simplify 
my 

> > printing.
> > 
> > 
> > Trust this helps.
> > 
> > There may be a better way to do this that someone more experienced can offer.
> > 
> > Have fun learning QTR --- the B&W prints it produces are great.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > David
> > 
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "handyman856" <avr@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Is linearization done on a 'per printer' basis, done once with any
> >> paper for a given printer, or is done 'per paper', and part of the
> >> profiling process of each paper?
> >> 
> >> =Alan R.
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

David

No, the calibration process should be done for each printer/ink/paper 
combination. Different papers can take different amounts of ink and the 
main purpose of the calibration is to guage the level of black ink which 
provides the best dmax as well as the 'crossover' points for the black & 
grey inks.

Printing the initial 100% calibration will give you the full range from 
5%-100% coverage. Dmax can actually decline with overinking and the best 
dmax patch will almost certainly not be the 100% one.

My experience shows that, even using the Media Type of Matte Paper, 
there are no papers, matt or gloss, that can take anything like the 
amount of ink deposited in the 100% patch at the 100% calibration limit 
at 2880dpi. The Matte paper setting therefore provides more than enough 
latitude in terms of quantity of ink deposited.

Media Type may determine other factors (?platen gap ?drop size) that 
might be factors but the evidence is inconclusive. Hopefully more people 
will reply to the other David's thread in this regard.

regards
Howard

--
Howard Shaw
www.howardshaw.org

dmwket wrote:

> Howard,
> It is my understanding from reading the material that the Ink Separation calibration is a 
> printer specific, not paper specific calibration.
> 
> I did that calibration before starting the per paper profiling I described.
> 
> It is important to remember that that has to be accomplished as well. Thanks for pointing 
> it out.
> 
> What drove me to doing the detailed profiling I described here is the lack of Dmax with 
> the default matte paper selection even after doing the Separation calibration.
> 
> Regards,
> David
> 
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
>>
>> This method may work if the best black ink density for the new paper 
>> matches that of the paper whose existing profile you use.
>> 
>> However a better way to optimise dmax and take out some of the guesswork 
>> is to standardise on one paper setting & resolution and print one of the 
>> ink separation tifs in calibration mode. See the file 'QuadToneRIP User 
>> Guide.pdf' in the qtr folder for more details.
>> 
>> Howard
>> 
>> 
>> dmwket wrote:
>> > Alan,
>> > Linearization is done on a per paper basis.
>> > 
>> > It is the profile used by QTR for that paper.
>> > 
>> > Based on experimentation and reading here on this forum I arrived at the following 
>> > process;
>> > 
>> > 1) Select an existing profile text file that approximates the paper you want to profile 
> and 
>> > delete the Linearization line at the end of the file and save with a unique name.
>> > 
>> > 2) find the best Dmax by printing 100% black squares with several paper settings i.e. 
>> > Premium Gloss Photo Paper, Premium Luster Photo Paper, etc. at 1440 as well as 
> 2880 
>> > using the file you created in 1 for the curve.
>> > 
>> > I positioned the ink swatch on the paper by clicking center image off and then setting 
> a 
>> > margin to create a row of swatches at the various setting.
>> > 
>> > These samples are all printed with No Color Management set in the printer dialog.
>> > 
>> > This is tedious but important. I let the samples dry for about 2 hours before reading 
> them 
>> > with my Spyder Spectrometer.
>> > 
>> > 3) Once the best Dmax paper, resolution setting is found. use that paper and 
> resolution to 
>> > print the 21 X 4 step wedge using the curve created in 1.
>> > 
>> > 4) Let the test print dry for a minimum 2 hours, over night is optimum, then read it 
> and do 
>> > the linearization.
>> > 
>> > 5) Copy the Linearization line from the text file and paste it into the file you made in 
> 1 
>> > above and save the file as your curve file for the paper.
>> > 
>> > 6) Copy the file into the printer profiles folder and "install the printer".
>> > 
>> > 7) Once the curve is installed I save a preset for QTR that has the paper selection, 
>> > resolution setting and curve. I name the preset to reflect what paper it is to simplify 
> my 
>> > printing.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Trust this helps.
>> > 
>> > There may be a better way to do this that someone more experienced can offer.
>> > 
>> > Have fun learning QTR --- the B&W prints it produces are great.
>> > 
>> > Regards,
>> > David
>> > 
>> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "handyman856" <avr@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Is linearization done on a 'per printer' basis, done once with any
>> >> paper for a given printer, or is done 'per paper', and part of the
>> >> profiling process of each paper?
>> >> 
>> >> =Alan R.
>> >>

Howard,
Thanks for the information.
I found that when I tried to set the ink limit below 100% for the black, then the step wedge 
did not print at all.

For example, if the best Dmax was the 95% wedge and I set 95 as the black limit, then 
when printing the step wedge, the 100% wedge was just an outline. Also, all the numeric 
text next to the steps were also just an outline.

That's what led me to the conclusion that the black ink limit had to be set to 100 in all 
cases and that the LK limit was used to set the point when K ink was used rather than the 
LK ink.

There are two or more places in the profile text file that have ink limit setting. Perhaps 
this is what is causing me the confusion.

Which settings are used to limit the total black ink flow to optimize Dmax?

thanks again for your insights.

David

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
>
> David
> 
> No, the calibration process should be done for each printer/ink/paper 
> combination. Different papers can take different amounts of ink and the 
> main purpose of the calibration is to guage the level of black ink which 
> provides the best dmax as well as the 'crossover' points for the black & 
> grey inks.
> 
> Printing the initial 100% calibration will give you the full range from 
> 5%-100% coverage. Dmax can actually decline with overinking and the best 
> dmax patch will almost certainly not be the 100% one.
> 
> My experience shows that, even using the Media Type of Matte Paper, 
> there are no papers, matt or gloss, that can take anything like the 
> amount of ink deposited in the 100% patch at the 100% calibration limit 
> at 2880dpi. The Matte paper setting therefore provides more than enough 
> latitude in terms of quantity of ink deposited.
> 
> Media Type may determine other factors (?platen gap ?drop size) that 
> might be factors but the evidence is inconclusive. Hopefully more people 
> will reply to the other David's thread in this regard.
> 
> regards
> Howard
> 
> --
> Howard Shaw
> www.howardshaw.org
> 
> dmwket wrote:
> > Howard,
> > It is my understanding from reading the material that the Ink Separation calibration is 
a 
> > printer specific, not paper specific calibration.
> > 
> > I did that calibration before starting the per paper profiling I described.
> > 
> > It is important to remember that that has to be accomplished as well. Thanks for 
pointing 
> > it out.
> > 
> > What drove me to doing the detailed profiling I described here is the lack of Dmax 
with 
> > the default matte paper selection even after doing the Separation calibration.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > David
> > 
> > 
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@> wrote:
> >>
> >> This method may work if the best black ink density for the new paper 
> >> matches that of the paper whose existing profile you use.
> >> 
> >> However a better way to optimise dmax and take out some of the guesswork 
> >> is to standardise on one paper setting & resolution and print one of the 
> >> ink separation tifs in calibration mode. See the file 'QuadToneRIP User 
> >> Guide.pdf' in the qtr folder for more details.
> >> 
> >> Howard
> >> 
> >> 
> >> dmwket wrote:
> >> > Alan,
> >> > Linearization is done on a per paper basis.
> >> > 
> >> > It is the profile used by QTR for that paper.
> >> > 
> >> > Based on experimentation and reading here on this forum I arrived at the 
following 
> >> > process;
> >> > 
> >> > 1) Select an existing profile text file that approximates the paper you want to 
profile 
> > and 
> >> > delete the Linearization line at the end of the file and save with a unique name.
> >> > 
> >> > 2) find the best Dmax by printing 100% black squares with several paper settings 
i.e. 
> >> > Premium Gloss Photo Paper, Premium Luster Photo Paper, etc. at 1440 as well as 
> > 2880 
> >> > using the file you created in 1 for the curve.
> >> > 
> >> > I positioned the ink swatch on the paper by clicking center image off and then 
setting 
> > a 
> >> > margin to create a row of swatches at the various setting.
> >> > 
> >> > These samples are all printed with No Color Management set in the printer dialog.
> >> > 
> >> > This is tedious but important. I let the samples dry for about 2 hours before 
reading 
> > them 
> >> > with my Spyder Spectrometer.
> >> > 
> >> > 3) Once the best Dmax paper, resolution setting is found. use that paper and 
> > resolution to 
> >> > print the 21 X 4 step wedge using the curve created in 1.
> >> > 
> >> > 4) Let the test print dry for a minimum 2 hours, over night is optimum, then read 
it 
> > and do 
> >> > the linearization.
> >> > 
> >> > 5) Copy the Linearization line from the text file and paste it into the file you made 
in 
> > 1 
> >> > above and save the file as your curve file for the paper.
> >> > 
> >> > 6) Copy the file into the printer profiles folder and "install the printer".
> >> > 
> >> > 7) Once the curve is installed I save a preset for QTR that has the paper selection, 
> >> > resolution setting and curve. I name the preset to reflect what paper it is to 
simplify 

> > my 
> >> > printing.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Trust this helps.
> >> > 
> >> > There may be a better way to do this that someone more experienced can offer.
> >> > 
> >> > Have fun learning QTR --- the B&W prints it produces are great.
> >> > 
> >> > Regards,
> >> > David
> >> > 
> >> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "handyman856" <avr@> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Is linearization done on a 'per printer' basis, done once with any
> >> >> paper for a given printer, or is done 'per paper', and part of the
> >> >> profiling process of each paper?
> >> >> 
> >> >> =Alan R.
> >> >>
>

Sounds like you might possibly be confusing the settings for ink limit & 
ink density?

Density should alway be 100 for the black ink but the limit should be 
the level in the initial 100% calibration that gives you the best dmax 
(there are exceptions such as where the limit is set lower but restored 
with a higher black boost figure but don't worry about that at this stage).

Paste your qidf file into an email if you'd like me to have a look.

regards
Howard


dmwket wrote:

> Howard,
> Thanks for the information.
> I found that when I tried to set the ink limit below 100% for the black, then the step wedge 
> did not print at all.
> 
> For example, if the best Dmax was the 95% wedge and I set 95 as the black limit, then 
> when printing the step wedge, the 100% wedge was just an outline. Also, all the numeric 
> text next to the steps were also just an outline.
> 
> That's what led me to the conclusion that the black ink limit had to be set to 100 in all 
> cases and that the LK limit was used to set the point when K ink was used rather than the 
> LK ink.
> 
> There are two or more places in the profile text file that have ink limit setting. Perhaps 
> this is what is causing me the confusion.
> 
> Which settings are used to limit the total black ink flow to optimize Dmax?
> 
> thanks again for your insights.
> 
> David
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
>>
>> David
>> 
>> No, the calibration process should be done for each printer/ink/paper 
>> combination. Different papers can take different amounts of ink and the 
>> main purpose of the calibration is to guage the level of black ink which 
>> provides the best dmax as well as the 'crossover' points for the black & 
>> grey inks.
>> 
>> Printing the initial 100% calibration will give you the full range from 
>> 5%-100% coverage. Dmax can actually decline with overinking and the best 
>> dmax patch will almost certainly not be the 100% one.
>> 
>> My experience shows that, even using the Media Type of Matte Paper, 
>> there are no papers, matt or gloss, that can take anything like the 
>> amount of ink deposited in the 100% patch at the 100% calibration limit 
>> at 2880dpi. The Matte paper setting therefore provides more than enough 
>> latitude in terms of quantity of ink deposited.
>> 
>> Media Type may determine other factors (?platen gap ?drop size) that 
>> might be factors but the evidence is inconclusive. Hopefully more people 
>> will reply to the other David's thread in this regard.
>> 
>> regards
>> Howard
>> 
>> --
>> Howard Shaw
>> www.howardshaw.org
>> 
>> dmwket wrote:
>> > Howard,
>> > It is my understanding from reading the material that the Ink Separation calibration is 
> a 
>> > printer specific, not paper specific calibration.
>> > 
>> > I did that calibration before starting the per paper profiling I described.
>> > 
>> > It is important to remember that that has to be accomplished as well. Thanks for 
> pointing 
>> > it out.
>> > 
>> > What drove me to doing the detailed profiling I described here is the lack of Dmax 
> with 
>> > the default matte paper selection even after doing the Separation calibration.
>> > 
>> > Regards,
>> > David
>> > 
>> > 
>> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> This method may work if the best black ink density for the new paper 
>> >> matches that of the paper whose existing profile you use.
>> >> 
>> >> However a better way to optimise dmax and take out some of the guesswork 
>> >> is to standardise on one paper setting & resolution and print one of the 
>> >> ink separation tifs in calibration mode. See the file 'QuadToneRIP User 
>> >> Guide.pdf' in the qtr folder for more details.
>> >> 
>> >> Howard
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> dmwket wrote:
>> >> > Alan,
>> >> > Linearization is done on a per paper basis.
>> >> > 
>> >> > It is the profile used by QTR for that paper.
>> >> > 
>> >> > Based on experimentation and reading here on this forum I arrived at the 
> following 
>> >> > process;
>> >> > 
>> >> > 1) Select an existing profile text file that approximates the paper you want to 
> profile 
>> > and 
>> >> > delete the Linearization line at the end of the file and save with a unique name.
>> >> > 
>> >> > 2) find the best Dmax by printing 100% black squares with several paper settings 
> i.e. 
>> >> > Premium Gloss Photo Paper, Premium Luster Photo Paper, etc. at 1440 as well as 
>> > 2880 
>> >> > using the file you created in 1 for the curve.
>> >> > 
>> >> > I positioned the ink swatch on the paper by clicking center image off and then 
> setting 
>> > a 
>> >> > margin to create a row of swatches at the various setting.
>> >> > 
>> >> > These samples are all printed with No Color Management set in the printer dialog.
>> >> > 
>> >> > This is tedious but important. I let the samples dry for about 2 hours before 
> reading 
>> > them 
>> >> > with my Spyder Spectrometer.
>> >> > 
>> >> > 3) Once the best Dmax paper, resolution setting is found. use that paper and 
>> > resolution to 
>> >> > print the 21 X 4 step wedge using the curve created in 1.
>> >> > 
>> >> > 4) Let the test print dry for a minimum 2 hours, over night is optimum, then read 
> it 
>> > and do 
>> >> > the linearization.
>> >> > 
>> >> > 5) Copy the Linearization line from the text file and paste it into the file you made 
> in 
>> > 1 
>> >> > above and save the file as your curve file for the paper.
>> >> > 
>> >> > 6) Copy the file into the printer profiles folder and "install the printer".
>> >> > 
>> >> > 7) Once the curve is installed I save a preset for QTR that has the paper selection, 
>> >> > resolution setting and curve. I name the preset to reflect what paper it is to 
> simplify 
>> > my 
>> >> > printing.
>> >> > 
>> >> > 
>> >> > Trust this helps.
>> >> > 
>> >> > There may be a better way to do this that someone more experienced can offer.
>> >> > 
>> >> > Have fun learning QTR --- the B&W prints it produces are great.
>> >> > 
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > David
>> >> > 
>> >> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "handyman856" <avr@> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Is linearization done on a 'per printer' basis, done once with any
>> >> >> paper for a given printer, or is done 'per paper', and part of the
>> >> >> profiling process of each paper?
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> =Alan R.
>> >> >>
>>
>

Howard,
The delay was so that I could do a profiling process for Brilliant Museum Silver Gloss 
White using the process as I understand it based on your comments as well as the 
documentation included with QTR.


I am including a PDF document in which I describe the process. Hopefully this will provide 
sufficent information for you to determine if the process is valid or, if flawed what I 
should do to improve it.

/Users/DMWMBP/Desktop/QTR Profiling 10.5.2.pdf

I am happy to email you the word file if this would be more useful. Let me know.

I am happy to edit the process description and share it more widely once I am sure it is 
valid.

Regards,
David

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
>
> Sounds like you might possibly be confusing the settings for ink limit & 
> ink density?
> 
> Density should alway be 100 for the black ink but the limit should be 
> the level in the initial 100% calibration that gives you the best dmax 
> (there are exceptions such as where the limit is set lower but restored 
> with a higher black boost figure but don't worry about that at this stage).
> 
> Paste your qidf file into an email if you'd like me to have a look.
> 
> regards
> Howard
> 
> 
> dmwket wrote:
> > Howard,
> > Thanks for the information.
> > I found that when I tried to set the ink limit below 100% for the black, then the step 
wedge 
> > did not print at all.
> > 
> > For example, if the best Dmax was the 95% wedge and I set 95 as the black limit, then 
> > when printing the step wedge, the 100% wedge was just an outline. Also, all the 
numeric 
> > text next to the steps were also just an outline.
> > 
> > That's what led me to the conclusion that the black ink limit had to be set to 100 in 
all 
> > cases and that the LK limit was used to set the point when K ink was used rather than 
the 
> > LK ink.
> > 
> > There are two or more places in the profile text file that have ink limit setting. 
Perhaps 
> > this is what is causing me the confusion.
> > 
> > Which settings are used to limit the total black ink flow to optimize Dmax?
> > 
> > thanks again for your insights.
> > 
> > David
> > 
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@> wrote:
> >>
> >> David
> >> 
> >> No, the calibration process should be done for each printer/ink/paper 
> >> combination. Different papers can take different amounts of ink and the 
> >> main purpose of the calibration is to guage the level of black ink which 
> >> provides the best dmax as well as the 'crossover' points for the black & 
> >> grey inks.
> >> 
> >> Printing the initial 100% calibration will give you the full range from 
> >> 5%-100% coverage. Dmax can actually decline with overinking and the best 
> >> dmax patch will almost certainly not be the 100% one.
> >> 
> >> My experience shows that, even using the Media Type of Matte Paper, 
> >> there are no papers, matt or gloss, that can take anything like the 
> >> amount of ink deposited in the 100% patch at the 100% calibration limit 
> >> at 2880dpi. The Matte paper setting therefore provides more than enough 
> >> latitude in terms of quantity of ink deposited.
> >> 
> >> Media Type may determine other factors (?platen gap ?drop size) that 
> >> might be factors but the evidence is inconclusive. Hopefully more people 
> >> will reply to the other David's thread in this regard.
> >> 
> >> regards
> >> Howard
> >> 
> >> --
> >> Howard Shaw
> >> www.howardshaw.org
> >> 
> >> dmwket wrote:
> >> > Howard,
> >> > It is my understanding from reading the material that the Ink Separation 
calibration is 
> > a 
> >> > printer specific, not paper specific calibration.
> >> > 
> >> > I did that calibration before starting the per paper profiling I described.
> >> > 
> >> > It is important to remember that that has to be accomplished as well. Thanks for 
> > pointing 
> >> > it out.
> >> > 
> >> > What drove me to doing the detailed profiling I described here is the lack of Dmax 
> > with 
> >> > the default matte paper selection even after doing the Separation calibration.
> >> > 
> >> > Regards,
> >> > David
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> This method may work if the best black ink density for the new paper 
> >> >> matches that of the paper whose existing profile you use.
> >> >> 
> >> >> However a better way to optimise dmax and take out some of the guesswork 
> >> >> is to standardise on one paper setting & resolution and print one of the 
> >> >> ink separation tifs in calibration mode. See the file 'QuadToneRIP User 
> >> >> Guide.pdf' in the qtr folder for more details.
> >> >> 
> >> >> Howard
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> dmwket wrote:
> >> >> > Alan,
> >> >> > Linearization is done on a per paper basis.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > It is the profile used by QTR for that paper.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > Based on experimentation and reading here on this forum I arrived at the 
> > following 
> >> >> > process;
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > 1) Select an existing profile text file that approximates the paper you want to 
> > profile 
> >> > and 
> >> >> > delete the Linearization line at the end of the file and save with a unique 
name.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > 2) find the best Dmax by printing 100% black squares with several paper 
settings 
> > i.e. 
> >> >> > Premium Gloss Photo Paper, Premium Luster Photo Paper, etc. at 1440 as well 
as 
> >> > 2880 
> >> >> > using the file you created in 1 for the curve.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > I positioned the ink swatch on the paper by clicking center image off and then 
> > setting 
> >> > a 
> >> >> > margin to create a row of swatches at the various setting.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > These samples are all printed with No Color Management set in the printer 
dialog.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > This is tedious but important. I let the samples dry for about 2 hours before 
> > reading 
> >> > them 
> >> >> > with my Spyder Spectrometer.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > 3) Once the best Dmax paper, resolution setting is found. use that paper and 
> >> > resolution to 
> >> >> > print the 21 X 4 step wedge using the curve created in 1.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > 4) Let the test print dry for a minimum 2 hours, over night is optimum, then 
read 
> > it 
> >> > and do 
> >> >> > the linearization.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > 5) Copy the Linearization line from the text file and paste it into the file you 
made 
> > in 
> >> > 1 
> >> >> > above and save the file as your curve file for the paper.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > 6) Copy the file into the printer profiles folder and "install the printer".
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > 7) Once the curve is installed I save a preset for QTR that has the paper 
selection, 
> >> >> > resolution setting and curve. I name the preset to reflect what paper it is to 
> > simplify 
> >> > my 
> >> >> > printing.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > Trust this helps.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > There may be a better way to do this that someone more experienced can 
offer.

> >> >> > 
> >> >> > Have fun learning QTR --- the B&W prints it produces are great.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > Regards,
> >> >> > David
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "handyman856" <avr@> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Is linearization done on a 'per printer' basis, done once with any
> >> >> >> paper for a given printer, or is done 'per paper', and part of the
> >> >> >> profiling process of each paper?
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> =Alan R.
> >> >> >>
> >>
> >
>

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "dmwket" <dmw@...> wrote:
>
> Howard,
> The delay was so that I could do a profiling process for Brilliant
Museum Silver Gloss
> White using the process as I understand it based on your comments as
well as the
> documentation included with QTR.
>
>
> I am including a PDF document in which I describe the process.
Hopefully this will provide
> sufficent information for you to determine if the process is valid or,
if flawed what I
> should do to improve it.
>
> /Users/DMWMBP/Desktop/QTR Profiling 10.5.2.pdf
>
> I am happy to email you the word file if this would be more useful.
Let me know.
>
> I am happy to edit the process description and share it more widely
once I am sure it is
> valid.
>
> Regards,
> David
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw glassman@ wrote:
> >
> > Sounds like you might possibly be confusing the settings for ink
limit &
> > ink density?
> >
> > Density should alway be 100 for the black ink but the limit should
be
> > the level in the initial 100% calibration that gives you the best
dmax
> > (there are exceptions such as where the limit is set lower but
restored
> > with a higher black boost figure but don't worry about that at this
stage).
> >
> > Paste your qidf file into an email if you'd like me to have a look.
> >
> > regards
> > Howard
> >
> >
> > dmwket wrote:
> > > Howard,
> > > Thanks for the information.
> > > I found that when I tried to set the ink limit below 100% for the
black, then the step
> wedge
> > > did not print at all.
> > >
> > > For example, if the best Dmax was the 95% wedge and I set 95 as
the black limit, then
> > > when printing the step wedge, the 100% wedge was just an outline.
Also, all the
> numeric
> > > text next to the steps were also just an outline.
> > >
> > > That's what led me to the conclusion that the black ink limit had
to be set to 100 in
> all
> > > cases and that the LK limit was used to set the point when K ink
was used rather than
> the
> > > LK ink.
> > >
> > > There are two or more places in the profile text file that have
ink limit setting.
> Perhaps
> > > this is what is causing me the confusion.
> > >
> > > Which settings are used to limit the total black ink flow to
optimize Dmax?
> > >
> > > thanks again for your insights.
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> David
> > >>
> > >> No, the calibration process should be done for each
printer/ink/paper
> > >> combination. Different papers can take different amounts of ink
and the
> > >> main purpose of the calibration is to guage the level of black
ink which
> > >> provides the best dmax as well as the 'crossover' points for the
black &
> > >> grey inks.
> > >>
> > >> Printing the initial 100% calibration will give you the full
range from
> > >> 5%-100% coverage. Dmax can actually decline with overinking and
the best
> > >> dmax patch will almost certainly not be the 100% one.
> > >>
> > >> My experience shows that, even using the Media Type of Matte
Paper,
> > >> there are no papers, matt or gloss, that can take anything like
the
> > >> amount of ink deposited in the 100% patch at the 100% calibration
limit
> > >> at 2880dpi. The Matte paper setting therefore provides more than
enough
> > >> latitude in terms of quantity of ink deposited.
> > >>
> > >> Media Type may determine other factors (?platen gap ?drop size)
that
> > >> might be factors but the evidence is inconclusive. Hopefully more
people
> > >> will reply to the other David's thread in this regard.
> > >>
> > >> regards
> > >> Howard
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Howard Shaw
> > >> www.howardshaw.org
> > >>
> > >> dmwket wrote:
> > >> > Howard,
> > >> > It is my understanding from reading the material that the Ink
Separation
> calibration is
> > > a
> > >> > printer specific, not paper specific calibration.
> > >> >
> > >> > I did that calibration before starting the per paper profiling
I described.
> > >> >
> > >> > It is important to remember that that has to be accomplished as
well. Thanks for
> > > pointing
> > >> > it out.
> > >> >
> > >> > What drove me to doing the detailed profiling I described here
is the lack of Dmax
> > > with
> > >> > the default matte paper selection even after doing the
Separation calibration.
> > >> >
> > >> > Regards,
> > >> > David
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@>
wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> This method may work if the best black ink density for the new
paper
> > >> >> matches that of the paper whose existing profile you use.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> However a better way to optimise dmax and take out some of the
guesswork
> > >> >> is to standardise on one paper setting & resolution and print
one of the
> > >> >> ink separation tifs in calibration mode. See the file
'QuadToneRIP User
> > >> >> Guide.pdf' in the qtr folder for more details.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Howard
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> dmwket wrote:
> > >> >> > Alan,
> > >> >> > Linearization is done on a per paper basis.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > It is the profile used by QTR for that paper.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Based on experimentation and reading here on this forum I
arrived at the
> > > following
> > >> >> > process;
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > 1) Select an existing profile text file that approximates
the paper you want to
> > > profile
> > >> > and
> > >> >> > delete the Linearization line at the end of the file and
save with a unique
> name.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > 2) find the best Dmax by printing 100% black squares with
several paper
> settings
> > > i.e.
> > >> >> > Premium Gloss Photo Paper, Premium Luster Photo Paper, etc.
at 1440 as well
> as
> > >> > 2880
> > >> >> > using the file you created in 1 for the curve.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > I positioned the ink swatch on the paper by clicking center
image off and then
> > > setting
> > >> > a
> > >> >> > margin to create a row of swatches at the various setting.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > These samples are all printed with No Color Management set
in the printer
> dialog.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > This is tedious but important. I let the samples dry for
about 2 hours before
> > > reading
> > >> > them
> > >> >> > with my Spyder Spectrometer.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > 3) Once the best Dmax paper, resolution setting is found.
use that paper and
> > >> > resolution to
> > >> >> > print the 21 X 4 step wedge using the curve created in 1.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > 4) Let the test print dry for a minimum 2 hours, over night
is optimum, then
> read
> > > it
> > >> > and do
> > >> >> > the linearization.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > 5) Copy the Linearization line from the text file and paste
it into the file you
> made
> > > in
> > >> > 1
> > >> >> > above and save the file as your curve file for the paper.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > 6) Copy the file into the printer profiles folder and
"install the printer".
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > 7) Once the curve is installed I save a preset for QTR that
has the paper
> selection,
> > >> >> > resolution setting and curve. I name the preset to reflect
what paper it is to
> > > simplify
> > >> > my
> > >> >> > printing.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Trust this helps.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > There may be a better way to do this that someone more
experienced can
> offer.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Have fun learning QTR --- the B&W prints it produces are
great.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Regards,
> > >> >> > David
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "handyman856" <avr@>
wrote:
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Is linearization done on a 'per printer' basis, done once
with any
> > >> >> >> paper for a given printer, or is done 'per paper', and part
of the

> > >> >> >> profiling process of each paper?
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> =Alan R.
> > >> >> >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
>

Getting the PDF file into this thread has proved beyond my skill.
I have uploaded it to the files\documents section of the group.

it is titled QTR Profiling 10.5.2.

David

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
>
> Sounds like you might possibly be confusing the settings for ink limit & 
> ink density?
> 
> Density should alway be 100 for the black ink but the limit should be 
> the level in the initial 100% calibration that gives you the best dmax 
> (there are exceptions such as where the limit is set lower but restored 
> with a higher black boost figure but don't worry about that at this stage).
> 
> Paste your qidf file into an email if you'd like me to have a look.
> 
> regards
> Howard
> 
> 
> dmwket wrote:
> > Howard,
> > Thanks for the information.
> > I found that when I tried to set the ink limit below 100% for the black, then the step 
wedge 
> > did not print at all.
> > 
> > For example, if the best Dmax was the 95% wedge and I set 95 as the black limit, then 
> > when printing the step wedge, the 100% wedge was just an outline. Also, all the 
numeric 
> > text next to the steps were also just an outline.
> > 
> > That's what led me to the conclusion that the black ink limit had to be set to 100 in 
all 
> > cases and that the LK limit was used to set the point when K ink was used rather than 
the 
> > LK ink.
> > 
> > There are two or more places in the profile text file that have ink limit setting. 
Perhaps 
> > this is what is causing me the confusion.
> > 
> > Which settings are used to limit the total black ink flow to optimize Dmax?
> > 
> > thanks again for your insights.
> > 
> > David
> > 
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@> wrote:
> >>
> >> David
> >> 
> >> No, the calibration process should be done for each printer/ink/paper 
> >> combination. Different papers can take different amounts of ink and the 
> >> main purpose of the calibration is to guage the level of black ink which 
> >> provides the best dmax as well as the 'crossover' points for the black & 
> >> grey inks.
> >> 
> >> Printing the initial 100% calibration will give you the full range from 
> >> 5%-100% coverage. Dmax can actually decline with overinking and the best 
> >> dmax patch will almost certainly not be the 100% one.
> >> 
> >> My experience shows that, even using the Media Type of Matte Paper, 
> >> there are no papers, matt or gloss, that can take anything like the 
> >> amount of ink deposited in the 100% patch at the 100% calibration limit 
> >> at 2880dpi. The Matte paper setting therefore provides more than enough 
> >> latitude in terms of quantity of ink deposited.
> >> 
> >> Media Type may determine other factors (?platen gap ?drop size) that 
> >> might be factors but the evidence is inconclusive. Hopefully more people 
> >> will reply to the other David's thread in this regard.
> >> 
> >> regards
> >> Howard
> >> 
> >> --
> >> Howard Shaw
> >> www.howardshaw.org
> >> 
> >> dmwket wrote:
> >> > Howard,
> >> > It is my understanding from reading the material that the Ink Separation 
calibration is 
> > a 
> >> > printer specific, not paper specific calibration.
> >> > 
> >> > I did that calibration before starting the per paper profiling I described.
> >> > 
> >> > It is important to remember that that has to be accomplished as well. Thanks for 
> > pointing 
> >> > it out.
> >> > 
> >> > What drove me to doing the detailed profiling I described here is the lack of Dmax 
> > with 
> >> > the default matte paper selection even after doing the Separation calibration.
> >> > 
> >> > Regards,
> >> > David
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> This method may work if the best black ink density for the new paper 
> >> >> matches that of the paper whose existing profile you use.
> >> >> 
> >> >> However a better way to optimise dmax and take out some of the guesswork 
> >> >> is to standardise on one paper setting & resolution and print one of the 
> >> >> ink separation tifs in calibration mode. See the file 'QuadToneRIP User 
> >> >> Guide.pdf' in the qtr folder for more details.
> >> >> 
> >> >> Howard
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> dmwket wrote:
> >> >> > Alan,
> >> >> > Linearization is done on a per paper basis.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > It is the profile used by QTR for that paper.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > Based on experimentation and reading here on this forum I arrived at the 
> > following 
> >> >> > process;
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > 1) Select an existing profile text file that approximates the paper you want to 
> > profile 
> >> > and 
> >> >> > delete the Linearization line at the end of the file and save with a unique 
name.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > 2) find the best Dmax by printing 100% black squares with several paper 
settings 
> > i.e. 
> >> >> > Premium Gloss Photo Paper, Premium Luster Photo Paper, etc. at 1440 as well 
as 
> >> > 2880 
> >> >> > using the file you created in 1 for the curve.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > I positioned the ink swatch on the paper by clicking center image off and then 
> > setting 
> >> > a 
> >> >> > margin to create a row of swatches at the various setting.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > These samples are all printed with No Color Management set in the printer 
dialog.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > This is tedious but important. I let the samples dry for about 2 hours before 
> > reading 
> >> > them 
> >> >> > with my Spyder Spectrometer.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > 3) Once the best Dmax paper, resolution setting is found. use that paper and 
> >> > resolution to 
> >> >> > print the 21 X 4 step wedge using the curve created in 1.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > 4) Let the test print dry for a minimum 2 hours, over night is optimum, then 
read 
> > it 
> >> > and do 
> >> >> > the linearization.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > 5) Copy the Linearization line from the text file and paste it into the file you 
made 
> > in 
> >> > 1 
> >> >> > above and save the file as your curve file for the paper.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > 6) Copy the file into the printer profiles folder and "install the printer".
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > 7) Once the curve is installed I save a preset for QTR that has the paper 
selection, 
> >> >> > resolution setting and curve. I name the preset to reflect what paper it is to 
> > simplify 
> >> > my 
> >> >> > printing.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > Trust this helps.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > There may be a better way to do this that someone more experienced can 
offer.

> >> >> > 
> >> >> > Have fun learning QTR --- the B&W prints it produces are great.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > Regards,
> >> >> > David
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "handyman856" <avr@> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Is linearization done on a 'per printer' basis, done once with any
> >> >> >> paper for a given printer, or is done 'per paper', and part of the
> >> >> >> profiling process of each paper?
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> =Alan R.
> >> >> >>
> >>
> >
>

Hi David

I'd be happy to help but you appear to be using a Mac and I am a Windows 
user. Although the principles are the same the detailed procedures for 
curve creation are quite different.

There is another document in the files section which is specifically for 
the mac and might be useful - QTR mini Tutorial on Curves.rtf

Hopefully a mac user can step in and help out. Why don't you post the 
text of your pdf into an email to make it easier for people to respond.

regards
Howard


dmwket wrote:

> Howard,
> The delay was so that I could do a profiling process for Brilliant Museum Silver Gloss 
> White using the process as I understand it based on your comments as well as the 
> documentation included with QTR.
> 
> 
> I am including a PDF document in which I describe the process. Hopefully this will provide 
> sufficent information for you to determine if the process is valid or, if flawed what I 
> should do to improve it.
> 
> /Users/DMWMBP/Desktop/QTR Profiling 10.5.2.pdf
> 
> I am happy to email you the word file if this would be more useful. Let me know.
> 
> I am happy to edit the process description and share it more widely once I am sure it is 
> valid.
> 
> Regards,
> David
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
>>
>> Sounds like you might possibly be confusing the settings for ink limit & 
>> ink density?
>> 
>> Density should alway be 100 for the black ink but the limit should be 
>> the level in the initial 100% calibration that gives you the best dmax 
>> (there are exceptions such as where the limit is set lower but restored 
>> with a higher black boost figure but don't worry about that at this stage).
>> 
>> Paste your qidf file into an email if you'd like me to have a look.
>> 
>> regards
>> Howard
>> 
>> 
>> dmwket wrote:
>> > Howard,
>> > Thanks for the information.
>> > I found that when I tried to set the ink limit below 100% for the black, then the step 
> wedge 
>> > did not print at all.
>> > 
>> > For example, if the best Dmax was the 95% wedge and I set 95 as the black limit, then 
>> > when printing the step wedge, the 100% wedge was just an outline. Also, all the 
> numeric 
>> > text next to the steps were also just an outline.
>> > 
>> > That's what led me to the conclusion that the black ink limit had to be set to 100 in 
> all 
>> > cases and that the LK limit was used to set the point when K ink was used rather than 
> the 
>> > LK ink.
>> > 
>> > There are two or more places in the profile text file that have ink limit setting. 
> Perhaps 
>> > this is what is causing me the confusion.
>> > 
>> > Which settings are used to limit the total black ink flow to optimize Dmax?
>> > 
>> > thanks again for your insights.
>> > 
>> > David
>> > 
>> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> David
>> >> 
>> >> No, the calibration process should be done for each printer/ink/paper 
>> >> combination. Different papers can take different amounts of ink and the 
>> >> main purpose of the calibration is to guage the level of black ink which 
>> >> provides the best dmax as well as the 'crossover' points for the black & 
>> >> grey inks.
>> >> 
>> >> Printing the initial 100% calibration will give you the full range from 
>> >> 5%-100% coverage. Dmax can actually decline with overinking and the best 
>> >> dmax patch will almost certainly not be the 100% one.
>> >> 
>> >> My experience shows that, even using the Media Type of Matte Paper, 
>> >> there are no papers, matt or gloss, that can take anything like the 
>> >> amount of ink deposited in the 100% patch at the 100% calibration limit 
>> >> at 2880dpi. The Matte paper setting therefore provides more than enough 
>> >> latitude in terms of quantity of ink deposited.
>> >> 
>> >> Media Type may determine other factors (?platen gap ?drop size) that 
>> >> might be factors but the evidence is inconclusive. Hopefully more people 
>> >> will reply to the other David's thread in this regard.
>> >> 
>> >> regards
>> >> Howard
>> >> 
>> >> --
>> >> Howard Shaw
>> >> www.howardshaw.org
>> >> 
>> >> dmwket wrote:
>> >> > Howard,
>> >> > It is my understanding from reading the material that the Ink Separation 
> calibration is 
>> > a 
>> >> > printer specific, not paper specific calibration.
>> >> > 
>> >> > I did that calibration before starting the per paper profiling I described.
>> >> > 
>> >> > It is important to remember that that has to be accomplished as well. Thanks for 
>> > pointing 
>> >> > it out.
>> >> > 
>> >> > What drove me to doing the detailed profiling I described here is the lack of Dmax 
>> > with 
>> >> > the default matte paper selection even after doing the Separation calibration.
>> >> > 
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > David
>> >> > 
>> >> > 
>> >> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This method may work if the best black ink density for the new paper 
>> >> >> matches that of the paper whose existing profile you use.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> However a better way to optimise dmax and take out some of the guesswork 
>> >> >> is to standardise on one paper setting & resolution and print one of the 
>> >> >> ink separation tifs in calibration mode. See the file 'QuadToneRIP User 
>> >> >> Guide.pdf' in the qtr folder for more details.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> Howard
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> dmwket wrote:
>> >> >> > Alan,
>> >> >> > Linearization is done on a per paper basis.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > It is the profile used by QTR for that paper.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > Based on experimentation and reading here on this forum I arrived at the 
>> > following 
>> >> >> > process;
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > 1) Select an existing profile text file that approximates the paper you want to 
>> > profile 
>> >> > and 
>> >> >> > delete the Linearization line at the end of the file and save with a unique 
> name.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > 2) find the best Dmax by printing 100% black squares with several paper 
> settings 
>> > i.e. 
>> >> >> > Premium Gloss Photo Paper, Premium Luster Photo Paper, etc. at 1440 as well 
> as 
>> >> > 2880 
>> >> >> > using the file you created in 1 for the curve.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > I positioned the ink swatch on the paper by clicking center image off and then 
>> > setting 
>> >> > a 
>> >> >> > margin to create a row of swatches at the various setting.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > These samples are all printed with No Color Management set in the printer 
> dialog.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > This is tedious but important. I let the samples dry for about 2 hours before 
>> > reading 
>> >> > them 
>> >> >> > with my Spyder Spectrometer.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > 3) Once the best Dmax paper, resolution setting is found. use that paper and 
>> >> > resolution to 
>> >> >> > print the 21 X 4 step wedge using the curve created in 1.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > 4) Let the test print dry for a minimum 2 hours, over night is optimum, then 
> read 
>> > it 
>> >> > and do 
>> >> >> > the linearization.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > 5) Copy the Linearization line from the text file and paste it into the file you 
> made 
>> > in 
>> >> > 1 
>> >> >> > above and save the file as your curve file for the paper.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > 6) Copy the file into the printer profiles folder and "install the printer".
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > 7) Once the curve is installed I save a preset for QTR that has the paper 
> selection, 
>> >> >> > resolution setting and curve. I name the preset to reflect what paper it is to 
>> > simplify 
>> >> > my 
>> >> >> > printing.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > Trust this helps.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > There may be a better way to do this that someone more experienced can 
> offer.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > Have fun learning QTR --- the B&W prints it produces are great.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > Regards,
>> >> >> > David
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "handyman856" <avr@> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Is linearization done on a 'per printer' basis, done once with any
>> >> >> >> paper for a given printer, or is done 'per paper', and part of the
>> >> >> >> profiling process of each paper?
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> =Alan R.
>> >> >> >>
>> >>

Howard,
The document includes some image captures of the linearization curves that do not paste 
well into this text area. That is why I did the PDF and found that I could not link it. So I 
uploaded into the file area.

I have also read the mini tutorial for MAC profiling. It appears that I am doing the same 
thing he describes just somewhat different sequence. I guess the best proof is that the 
prints look good.

Regards,
David
--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
>
> Hi David
> 
> I'd be happy to help but you appear to be using a Mac and I am a Windows 
> user. Although the principles are the same the detailed procedures for 
> curve creation are quite different.
> 
> There is another document in the files section which is specifically for 
> the mac and might be useful - QTR mini Tutorial on Curves.rtf
> 
> Hopefully a mac user can step in and help out. Why don't you post the 
> text of your pdf into an email to make it easier for people to respond.
> 
> regards
> Howard
> 
> 
> dmwket wrote:
> > Howard,
> > The delay was so that I could do a profiling process for Brilliant Museum Silver Gloss 
> > White using the process as I understand it based on your comments as well as the 
> > documentation included with QTR.
> > 
> > 
> > I am including a PDF document in which I describe the process. Hopefully this will 
provide 
> > sufficent information for you to determine if the process is valid or, if flawed what I 
> > should do to improve it.
> > 
> > /Users/DMWMBP/Desktop/QTR Profiling 10.5.2.pdf
> > 
> > I am happy to email you the word file if this would be more useful. Let me know.
> > 
> > I am happy to edit the process description and share it more widely once I am sure it 
is 
> > valid.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > David
> > 
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Sounds like you might possibly be confusing the settings for ink limit & 
> >> ink density?
> >> 
> >> Density should alway be 100 for the black ink but the limit should be 
> >> the level in the initial 100% calibration that gives you the best dmax 
> >> (there are exceptions such as where the limit is set lower but restored 
> >> with a higher black boost figure but don't worry about that at this stage).
> >> 
> >> Paste your qidf file into an email if you'd like me to have a look.
> >> 
> >> regards
> >> Howard
> >> 
> >> 
> >> dmwket wrote:
> >> > Howard,
> >> > Thanks for the information.
> >> > I found that when I tried to set the ink limit below 100% for the black, then the 
step 
> > wedge 
> >> > did not print at all.
> >> > 
> >> > For example, if the best Dmax was the 95% wedge and I set 95 as the black limit, 
then 
> >> > when printing the step wedge, the 100% wedge was just an outline. Also, all the 
> > numeric 
> >> > text next to the steps were also just an outline.
> >> > 
> >> > That's what led me to the conclusion that the black ink limit had to be set to 100 
in 
> > all 
> >> > cases and that the LK limit was used to set the point when K ink was used rather 
than 
> > the 
> >> > LK ink.
> >> > 
> >> > There are two or more places in the profile text file that have ink limit setting. 
> > Perhaps 
> >> > this is what is causing me the confusion.
> >> > 
> >> > Which settings are used to limit the total black ink flow to optimize Dmax?
> >> > 
> >> > thanks again for your insights.
> >> > 
> >> > David
> >> > 
> >> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> David
> >> >> 
> >> >> No, the calibration process should be done for each printer/ink/paper 
> >> >> combination. Different papers can take different amounts of ink and the 
> >> >> main purpose of the calibration is to guage the level of black ink which 
> >> >> provides the best dmax as well as the 'crossover' points for the black & 
> >> >> grey inks.
> >> >> 
> >> >> Printing the initial 100% calibration will give you the full range from 
> >> >> 5%-100% coverage. Dmax can actually decline with overinking and the best 
> >> >> dmax patch will almost certainly not be the 100% one.
> >> >> 
> >> >> My experience shows that, even using the Media Type of Matte Paper, 
> >> >> there are no papers, matt or gloss, that can take anything like the 
> >> >> amount of ink deposited in the 100% patch at the 100% calibration limit 
> >> >> at 2880dpi. The Matte paper setting therefore provides more than enough 
> >> >> latitude in terms of quantity of ink deposited.
> >> >> 
> >> >> Media Type may determine other factors (?platen gap ?drop size) that 
> >> >> might be factors but the evidence is inconclusive. Hopefully more people 
> >> >> will reply to the other David's thread in this regard.
> >> >> 
> >> >> regards
> >> >> Howard
> >> >> 
> >> >> --
> >> >> Howard Shaw
> >> >> www.howardshaw.org
> >> >> 
> >> >> dmwket wrote:
> >> >> > Howard,
> >> >> > It is my understanding from reading the material that the Ink Separation 
> > calibration is 
> >> > a 
> >> >> > printer specific, not paper specific calibration.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > I did that calibration before starting the per paper profiling I described.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > It is important to remember that that has to be accomplished as well. Thanks 
for 
> >> > pointing 
> >> >> > it out.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > What drove me to doing the detailed profiling I described here is the lack of 
Dmax 
> >> > with 
> >> >> > the default matte paper selection even after doing the Separation calibration.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > Regards,
> >> >> > David
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> This method may work if the best black ink density for the new paper 
> >> >> >> matches that of the paper whose existing profile you use.
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> However a better way to optimise dmax and take out some of the guesswork 
> >> >> >> is to standardise on one paper setting & resolution and print one of the 
> >> >> >> ink separation tifs in calibration mode. See the file 'QuadToneRIP User 
> >> >> >> Guide.pdf' in the qtr folder for more details.
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> Howard
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> dmwket wrote:
> >> >> >> > Alan,
> >> >> >> > Linearization is done on a per paper basis.
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > It is the profile used by QTR for that paper.
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > Based on experimentation and reading here on this forum I arrived at the 
> >> > following 
> >> >> >> > process;
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > 1) Select an existing profile text file that approximates the paper you want 
to 
> >> > profile 
> >> >> > and 
> >> >> >> > delete the Linearization line at the end of the file and save with a unique 
> > name.
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > 2) find the best Dmax by printing 100% black squares with several paper 
> > settings 
> >> > i.e. 
> >> >> >> > Premium Gloss Photo Paper, Premium Luster Photo Paper, etc. at 1440 as 
well 
> > as 
> >> >> > 2880 
> >> >> >> > using the file you created in 1 for the curve.
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > I positioned the ink swatch on the paper by clicking center image off and 
then 
> >> > setting 
> >> >> > a 
> >> >> >> > margin to create a row of swatches at the various setting.
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > These samples are all printed with No Color Management set in the printer 
> > dialog.
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > This is tedious but important. I let the samples dry for about 2 hours 
before 
> >> > reading 
> >> >> > them 
> >> >> >> > with my Spyder Spectrometer.
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > 3) Once the best Dmax paper, resolution setting is found. use that paper 
and 
> >> >> > resolution to 
> >> >> >> > print the 21 X 4 step wedge using the curve created in 1.
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > 4) Let the test print dry for a minimum 2 hours, over night is optimum, 
then 
> > read 
> >> > it 
> >> >> > and do 
> >> >> >> > the linearization.
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > 5) Copy the Linearization line from the text file and paste it into the file 
you 
> > made 
> >> > in 
> >> >> > 1 
> >> >> >> > above and save the file as your curve file for the paper.
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > 6) Copy the file into the printer profiles folder and "install the printer".
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > 7) Once the curve is installed I save a preset for QTR that has the paper 
> > selection, 
> >> >> >> > resolution setting and curve. I name the preset to reflect what paper it is 
to 

> >> > simplify 
> >> >> > my 
> >> >> >> > printing.
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > Trust this helps.
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > There may be a better way to do this that someone more experienced can 
> > offer.
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > Have fun learning QTR --- the B&W prints it produces are great.
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > Regards,
> >> >> >> > David
> >> >> >> > 
> >> >> >> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "handyman856" <avr@> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Is linearization done on a 'per printer' basis, done once with any
> >> >> >> >> paper for a given printer, or is done 'per paper', and part of the
> >> >> >> >> profiling process of each paper?
> >> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> >> =Alan R.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >>
>

Please trim your posts. Posts with 5 levels of previous messages (like this
thread had) make life very annoying - especially for those members receiving
daily digests.