QTR-Quadtone RIP

QTR is sensational for printing on Epson Enhanced Matte. Nothing better on our Epson 
2200. But there is a huge problem with bronzing when we print on Premium Glossy Photo 
paper. This is not new news, but there appears to be no effort to corrrect it, to build a 
proper profile that will print great, cool B/W images. In the past, Roy has recommended 
the Semi-Glossy profile, but this does not really help. The solution is apparant: We all 
need a new profile directly designed for Premium Glossy. And the sooner, the better. 
Please. Thank you, Tom & Marj Green

A profile alone is not going to help with the bronzing and only  
marginally with the warmth if you are using Epson UC inks with the  
Photo Black.  You should be using the MIS PKN if you want cool,  
glossy prints with less bronzing.  It is very difficult to cool down  
the extremely warm Epson PK.

On Jul 27, 2005, at 3:16 PM, tom_and_marj wrote:

> QTR is sensational for printing on Epson Enhanced Matte. Nothing  
> better on our Epson
> 2200. But there is a huge problem with bronzing when we print on  
> Premium Glossy Photo
> paper. This is not new news, but there appears to be no effort to  
> corrrect it, to build a
> proper profile that will print great, cool B/W images. In the past,  
> Roy has recommended
> the Semi-Glossy profile, but this does not really help. The  
> solution is apparant: We all
> need a new profile directly designed for Premium Glossy. And the  
> sooner, the better.
> Please. Thank you, Tom & Marj Green
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield <scho@m...> wrote:
> A profile alone is not going to help with the bronzing and only  
> marginally with the warmth if you are using Epson UC inks with the  
> Photo Black.  You should be using the MIS PKN if you want cool,  
> glossy prints with less bronzing.  It is very difficult to cool down  
> the extremely warm Epson PK.

I print on Ilford SP and I get a lot more bronzing with QTR on a B&W
than when I print using the Epson drivers with the same (Epson) inks
on same paper, so it seems to me that something can be done and it has
more to do with the mix of inks than the inks themselves. The
difference in bronzing between the 2 is very noticeable to me.
Metamerism sure is gone though.

> I print on Ilford SP and I get a lot more bronzing with QTR 
> on a B&W than when I print using the Epson drivers with the 
> same (Epson) inks on same paper, so it seems to me that 
> something can be done and it has more to do with the mix of 
> inks than the inks themselves. The difference in bronzing 
> between the 2 is very noticeable to me.

I usually hestitate to say something is impossible, but I've seen a fair
amount of combinations of UC inks on Ilford Smooth Pearl and Premium Glossy.
Everything from two blacks with toners, one black, only gray, black and gray
with no toners and various combinations of matte black and photo black. I've
never seen a result that to me was even remotely acceptable. If there exists
a way to combine UC inks in a grayscale curve to remove bronzing on these
papers I don't know what it would be.

What definitely works is PKN with Gloss Optimizer. That effectively removes
all bronzing, and looks particularly good on Ilford Smooth Pearl, with Epson
Premium Semigloss coming a close second. As an added bonus you get
incredible dmax.

Now MIS has inks with a new base that's supposed to eliminate the bronzing
without the need for GLOP. I'm waiting for my MIS PRO inkset now and will
probably post curves in the coming week.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

The issue with this is that my printer cannot be dedicated to B&W, so
I have to do the best I can within a color/B&W setup but frankly, I
haven't seen a B&W print yet (including QTR prints) from my 2200 on
semi-gloss paper that I would be comfortable selling. The metamerism
issue was terrible and QTR fixed that, but the bronzing is something
imho that any discerning client would (or should) object to. Any
slight angle of view and it screams at you. Wish I could afford one of
those 4800 and see if it does any better, but I'm afraid I'll have to
externalise if I want to sell some decent B&W. Too bad I know nothing
about film and wet darkrooms...


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Staver" <daniel@p...> wrote:
> I usually hestitate to say something is impossible, but I've seen a fair
> amount of combinations of UC inks on Ilford Smooth Pearl and Premium
Glossy.
> Everything from two blacks with toners, one black, only gray, black
and gray
> with no toners and various combinations of matte black and photo
black. I've
> never seen a result that to me was even remotely acceptable. If
there exists
> a way to combine UC inks in a grayscale curve to remove bronzing on
these
> papers I don't know what it would be.
> 
> What definitely works is PKN with Gloss Optimizer. That effectively
removes
> all bronzing, and looks particularly good on Ilford Smooth Pearl,
with Epson
> Premium Semigloss coming a close second. As an added bonus you get
> incredible dmax.
> 
> Now MIS has inks with a new base that's supposed to eliminate the
bronzing
> without the need for GLOP. I'm waiting for my MIS PRO inkset now and
will

> probably post curves in the coming week.
> 
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no

MIS is coming out with inks - both color and b+w - that will be like the new Epson K3 
inks...glossy compatible. 

"davidpichevin"  wrote:

> I have to do the best I can within a color/B&W setup but frankly, I
> haven't seen a B&W print yet (including QTR prints) from my 2200 on
> semi-gloss paper that I would be comfortable selling. The metamerism
> issue was terrible and QTR fixed that, but the bronzing is something
> imho that any discerning client would (or should) object to.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "John Vitollo" <jvlist@c...> wrote:
> MIS is coming out with inks - both color and b+w - that will be like 
the new Epson K3 
> inks...glossy compatible. 


Interesting, what are the references, name... any idea ?

Thanks

Michel

> Interesting, what are the references, name... any idea ?

http://www.inksupply.com/arcink_mispro.cfm


--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

> http://www.inksupply.com/arcink_mispro.cfm
> Daniel Staver

Also from reading posts on MIS' forum it seems all Epson equivalent inks on their shelves - 
color to quadtone - will be converted to the new "glossy" formulation over the next few 
months.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Staver" <daniel@p...> wrote:
> > Interesting, what are the references, name... any idea ?
> 
> http://www.inksupply.com/arcink_mispro.cfm

Thanks for the link and info. I am not familiar with the MIS inks. Are
the MIS pro inks ont he link you provided the "equivalent" to the new
Epson inks you are talkin about?

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Eric Ashworth <brigsby707@c...> wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> The MIS Pro inks are the latest UC equivalent inks produced by MIS.  
> If you want a little more info on all of their inks try this link,
> 
> http://www.inksupply.com/arcinks2.cfm

Thanks Eric. I found my way around their site. I was actually trying
to find out how to use those inks without the large frontal expense of
a continuous system. It seems that those new inks are not available as
stand-alone cartridges right now. Maybe empty cartridges + bottles to
refill would be the way to go.

Although, I'd be curious to see some tests and find out if it does
help with bronzing. My worry (and I do not have any tesst to back that
up, just what I've seen) is that it would not change the bronzing
issue that much.

The reason for that is, as I mentionned in a previous post, I am
getting far more bronzing with QTR than I do when using all 7
cartridges and the Epson driver (plus metamerism in that case,
otherwize I would not need QTR). I would not object too much to the
bronzing produced by the Epson inks, printer with Epson driver on
Ilford paper. It is there but faint and you have to try and make it
happen. A print with QTR on same paper and it's not the same anymore,
bronzing is very visible even at slight angles.

So even if replacing the inks produces less bronzing that the Epson
inks in a normal situation, would it change anything when we are down
to using a more limited number of inks in QTR?

Now looking at the issue another way, if these new inks work more like
the new K3 from Epson, would they help at all with metamerism (which
in reality means no more need for QTR and not so much worry about
bronzing)?

I would still love to hear more about why bronzing gets so high on the
QTR prints...

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Staver" <daniel@p...> wrote:
<snip>

> Now MIS has inks with a new base that's supposed to eliminate the
bronzing
> without the need for GLOP. I'm waiting for my MIS PRO inkset now and
will
> probably post curves in the coming week.
> 

Hi Daniel,

I'm a new member running through old posts to get up to speed re: my
'new' 2200 and QTR. Just wondering if a you had received your MISPRO
inks, and had any opinions regarding them (or better yet, progress
with profiles!)? 

I'm considering them as a primary inkset for the 2200, for B&W (via
QTR and possibly BO with Eboni) and general color use.

Thanks for all your informative posts in this forum,

Neil S.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "nsimms" <nsimms@n...> wrote:
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Staver" <daniel@p...> wrote:
> <snip>
> 
> > Now MIS has inks with a new base that's supposed to eliminate the
> bronzing
> > without the need for GLOP. I'm waiting for my MIS PRO inkset now and
> will
> > probably post curves in the coming week.
> > 
> 
> Hi Daniel,
> 
> I'm a new member running through old posts to get up to speed re: my
> 'new' 2200 and QTR. Just wondering if a you had received your MISPRO
> inks, and had any opinions regarding them (or better yet, progress
> with profiles!)? 
> 
> I'm considering them as a primary inkset for the 2200, for B&W (via
> QTR and possibly BO with Eboni) and general color use.
> 
> Thanks for all your informative posts in this forum,
> 
> Neil S.
>

Ah, just saw your (Daniel's) curves for MISPRO ink in the files
section (2100-mis-pro.zip). That will give me something to play with.

Thanks!

Neil S.

Can someone post a link to the MIS PRO inks?  Are they quadtone, or UC equivalents?

Ed


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "nsimms" <nsimms@n...> wrote:

>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "nsimms" <nsimms@n...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Staver" <daniel@p...> wrote:
> > <snip>
> > 
> > > Now MIS has inks with a new base that's supposed to eliminate the
> > bronzing
> > > without the need for GLOP. I'm waiting for my MIS PRO inkset now and
> > will
> > > probably post curves in the coming week.

edrudolpho wrote:
> Can someone post a link to the MIS PRO inks?  Are they quadtone, or UC equivalents?
> 
> Ed

Both in a sense. The MIS Pro are the UC clones, now also ready 
for the 9800. The latest MIS UT quadtone inks are based on the 
same chemistry as I understand it.

                    --
           Ernst Dinkla


www.pigment-print.com
(         unvollendet         )

>Can someone post a link to the MIS PRO inks?  Are they
quadtone, or UC equivalents?

There UC clones.
http://www.inksupply.com/arcink_mispro.cfm

Regards, Walt

http://www.kauaiphotos.biz

MisPro is a very good color set..been running for only 2 weeks,
but no problems at all /w CIS install and printing
Bronzing is significantly reduced
very pleased
Frank
--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "nsimms" <nsimms@n...> wrote:
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "nsimms" <nsimms@n...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Staver" <daniel@p...> 
wrote:
> > <snip>
> > 
> > > Now MIS has inks with a new base that's supposed to eliminate 
the
> > bronzing
> > > without the need for GLOP. I'm waiting for my MIS PRO inkset 
now and
> > will
> > > probably post curves in the coming week.
> > > 
> > 
> > Hi Daniel,
> > 
> > I'm a new member running through old posts to get up to speed re: 
my
> > 'new' 2200 and QTR. Just wondering if a you had received your 
MISPRO
> > inks, and had any opinions regarding them (or better yet, progress
> > with profiles!)? 
> > 
> > I'm considering them as a primary inkset for the 2200, for B&W 
(via
> > QTR and possibly BO with Eboni) and general color use.
> > 
> > Thanks for all your informative posts in this forum,
> > 
> > Neil S.
> >
> 
> Ah, just saw your (Daniel's) curves for MISPRO ink in the files
> section (2100-mis-pro.zip). That will give me something to play 
with.

> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Neil S.
>