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a step in my curve

a step in my curve

2008-04-15 by paolovertullo

hi everybody,
i have a problem that i can't solve because i can't see where i do wrong.
i followed the user guide prepared by Tom Moore but when i print the
100stepWedge.tif file i figure out that from 99% and 100% there 
is an evident step. I have tryied to modify Highlight, shadow and
gamma parameter but without success. 
It's not my first time in curve creation and i'm weasting a lot of
paper and ink and it's frustrating.
can anyone help me ? i can post scanned file... evrything could be
helpfull.

thanks in advance
Paolo

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] a step in my curve

2008-04-15 by Howard Shaw

It could be caused by the black boost number being a lot higher than the 
black ink limit. If so, try reducing black boost.

regards
Howard
--
www.howardshaw.org

paolovertullo wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> hi everybody,
> i have a problem that i can't solve because i can't see where i do wrong.
> i followed the user guide prepared by Tom Moore but when i print the
> 100stepWedge.tif file i figure out that from 99% and 100% there 
> is an evident step. I have tryied to modify Highlight, shadow and
> gamma parameter but without success. 
> It's not my first time in curve creation and i'm weasting a lot of
> paper and ink and it's frustrating.
> can anyone help me ? i can post scanned file... evrything could be
> helpfull.
> 
> thanks in advance
> Paolo
>

Re: a step in my curve

2008-04-15 by paolovertullo

i didn't specifyed any black boost value.
is it supposed to be valorized ? in this case what is a good starting
point ? 




--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
>
> It could be caused by the black boost number being a lot higher than
the 
> black ink limit. If so, try reducing black boost.
> 
> regards
> Howard
> --
> www.howardshaw.org
> 
> paolovertullo wrote:
> > hi everybody,
> > i have a problem that i can't solve because i can't see where i do
wrong.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > i followed the user guide prepared by Tom Moore but when i print the
> > 100stepWedge.tif file i figure out that from 99% and 100% there 
> > is an evident step. I have tryied to modify Highlight, shadow and
> > gamma parameter but without success. 
> > It's not my first time in curve creation and i'm weasting a lot of
> > paper and ink and it's frustrating.
> > can anyone help me ? i can post scanned file... evrything could be
> > helpfull.
> > 
> > thanks in advance
> > Paolo
> >
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: a step in my curve

2008-04-15 by Howard Shaw

paolovertullo wrote:
 > i didn't specifyed any black boost value.
 > is it supposed to be valorized ? in this case what is a good starting
 > point ?
 >
Paolo

It can't be black boost causing it then. Another variable that might 
affect this is overlap. Perhaps it would be helpful if you could paste 
your whole .qidf into a message.

By the way, I'm assuming that the 100% patch is a lot darker than the 
99% patch.

regards
Howard

Re: a step in my curve

2008-04-15 by paolovertullo

here it's my .qidf :

PRINTER=QuadR260-MIS
CURVE_NAME=MK-EPSON-ARCHIVAL-MATTE-6ink-140408
GRAPH_CURVE=YES
N_OF_INKS=6
DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=
BOOST_K=
LIMIT_K=30
LIMIT_C=25
LIMIT_M=75
LIMIT_Y=5
LIMIT_LC=12
LIMIT_LM=25
N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=6
GRAY_INK_1=K
GRAY_VAL_1=100
GRAY_INK_2=M
GRAY_VAL_2=38,33
GRAY_INK_3=C
GRAY_VAL_3=29
GRAY_INK_4=LM
GRAY_VAL_4=16,66
GRAY_INK_5=LC
GRAY_VAL_5=11
GRAY_INK_6=Y
GRAY_VAL_6=5,66
GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=10
GRAY_SHADOW=10
GRAY_OVERLAP=
GRAY_GAMMA=1
GRAY_CURVE=
N_OF_TONER_PARTS=0
TONER_HIGHLIGHT=10
TONER_SHADOW=10
TONER_GAMMA=1
TONER_CURVE=
N_OF_TONER_2_PARTS=0
TONER_2_HIGHLIGHT=10
TONER_2_SHADOW=10
TONER_2_GAMMA=1
TONER_2_CURVE=
N_OF_UNUSED=0

thanks for the help Howard

Paolo


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> paolovertullo wrote:
>  > i didn't specifyed any black boost value.
>  > is it supposed to be valorized ? in this case what is a good starting
>  > point ?
>  >
> Paolo
> 
> It can't be black boost causing it then. Another variable that might 
> affect this is overlap. Perhaps it would be helpful if you could paste 
> your whole .qidf into a message.
> 
> By the way, I'm assuming that the 100% patch is a lot darker than the 
> 99% patch.
> 
> regards
> Howard
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: a step in my curve

2008-04-15 by Howard Shaw

Paolo

What inks are you using here? The ink limits vary widely and this is not 
like any partition I have seen before. If I was to guess at the cause of 
the problem I would say that, upto the 98% spot, the magenta position 
ink in combination with the black ink is overinking the paper reducing 
dmax. Because you have no overlap the black is on its own at the 100% 
step and you're dmax is therefore restored (with an overlap the magenta 
would still fire at the 100% point). You could test this by adding an 
overlap of say 8. If I am right this will reduce the reading at 100% 
more in line with that at 98%. However this test is only confirming the 
problem - overinking - which still needs to be resolved.

(I've also not seen the use of commas as decimal places in qidf files 
before but I guess you would be having greater problems if these were 
not allowed).

regards
Howard


paolovertullo wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> here it's my .qidf :
> 
> PRINTER=QuadR260-MIS
> CURVE_NAME=MK-EPSON-ARCHIVAL-MATTE-6ink-140408
> GRAPH_CURVE=YES
> N_OF_INKS=6
> DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=
> BOOST_K=
> LIMIT_K=30
> LIMIT_C=25
> LIMIT_M=75
> LIMIT_Y=5
> LIMIT_LC=12
> LIMIT_LM=25
> N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=6
> GRAY_INK_1=K
> GRAY_VAL_1=100
> GRAY_INK_2=M
> GRAY_VAL_2=38,33
> GRAY_INK_3=C
> GRAY_VAL_3=29
> GRAY_INK_4=LM
> GRAY_VAL_4=16,66
> GRAY_INK_5=LC
> GRAY_VAL_5=11
> GRAY_INK_6=Y
> GRAY_VAL_6=5,66
> GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=10
> GRAY_SHADOW=10
> GRAY_OVERLAP=
> GRAY_GAMMA=1
> GRAY_CURVE=
> N_OF_TONER_PARTS=0
> TONER_HIGHLIGHT=10
> TONER_SHADOW=10
> TONER_GAMMA=1
> TONER_CURVE=
> N_OF_TONER_2_PARTS=0
> TONER_2_HIGHLIGHT=10
> TONER_2_SHADOW=10
> TONER_2_GAMMA=1
> TONER_2_CURVE=
> N_OF_UNUSED=0
> 
> thanks for the help Howard
> 
> Paolo
> 
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
>>
>> paolovertullo wrote:
>>  > i didn't specifyed any black boost value.
>>  > is it supposed to be valorized ? in this case what is a good starting
>>  > point ?
>>  >
>> Paolo
>> 
>> It can't be black boost causing it then. Another variable that might 
>> affect this is overlap. Perhaps it would be helpful if you could paste 
>> your whole .qidf into a message.
>> 
>> By the way, I'm assuming that the 100% patch is a lot darker than the 
>> 99% patch.
>> 
>> regards
>> Howard
>>
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: a step in my curve

2008-04-16 by paolovertullo

morning Howard,
yesterday night i made same tests and you are right. 
I added an overlap and it was much better but there is an overinking
problem. The magenta ink arrives to his darker grey after starting to
overload the paper.
have i to use magenta in a range where it doesn't overink ?
I use MIS ink with ebony black with an Epson R265 (european version
for the r260) and Epson Archive Matte paper.

thanks
Paolo

--- In QuadtoneRIP@...m, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
>
> Paolo
> 
> What inks are you using here? The ink limits vary widely and this is
not 
> like any partition I have seen before. If I was to guess at the
cause of 
> the problem I would say that, upto the 98% spot, the magenta position 
> ink in combination with the black ink is overinking the paper reducing 
> dmax. Because you have no overlap the black is on its own at the 100% 
> step and you're dmax is therefore restored (with an overlap the magenta 
> would still fire at the 100% point). You could test this by adding an 
> overlap of say 8. If I am right this will reduce the reading at 100% 
> more in line with that at 98%. However this test is only confirming the 
> problem - overinking - which still needs to be resolved.
> 
> (I've also not seen the use of commas as decimal places in qidf files 
> before but I guess you would be having greater problems if these were 
> not allowed).
> 
> regards
> Howard
> 
> 
> paolovertullo wrote:
> > here it's my .qidf :
> > 
> > PRINTER=QuadR260-MIS
> > CURVE_NAME=MK-EPSON-ARCHIVAL-MATTE-6ink-140408
> > GRAPH_CURVE=YES
> > N_OF_INKS=6
> > DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=
> > BOOST_K=
> > LIMIT_K=30
> > LIMIT_C=25
> > LIMIT_M=75
> > LIMIT_Y=5
> > LIMIT_LC=12
> > LIMIT_LM=25
> > N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=6
> > GRAY_INK_1=K
> > GRAY_VAL_1=100
> > GRAY_INK_2=M
> > GRAY_VAL_2=38,33
> > GRAY_INK_3=C
> > GRAY_VAL_3=29
> > GRAY_INK_4=LM
> > GRAY_VAL_4=16,66
> > GRAY_INK_5=LC
> > GRAY_VAL_5=11
> > GRAY_INK_6=Y
> > GRAY_VAL_6=5,66
> > GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=10
> > GRAY_SHADOW=10
> > GRAY_OVERLAP=
> > GRAY_GAMMA=1
> > GRAY_CURVE=
> > N_OF_TONER_PARTS=0
> > TONER_HIGHLIGHT=10
> > TONER_SHADOW=10
> > TONER_GAMMA=1
> > TONER_CURVE=
> > N_OF_TONER_2_PARTS=0
> > TONER_2_HIGHLIGHT=10
> > TONER_2_SHADOW=10
> > TONER_2_GAMMA=1
> > TONER_2_CURVE=
> > N_OF_UNUSED=0
> > 
> > thanks for the help Howard
> > 
> > Paolo
> > 
> > 
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@> wrote:
> >>
> >> paolovertullo wrote:
> >>  > i didn't specifyed any black boost value.
> >>  > is it supposed to be valorized ? in this case what is a good
starting
> >>  > point ?
> >>  >
> >> Paolo
> >> 
> >> It can't be black boost causing it then. Another variable that might 
> >> affect this is overlap. Perhaps it would be helpful if you could
paste 
> >> your whole .qidf into a message.
> >> 
> >> By the way, I'm assuming that the 100% patch is a lot darker than
the 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >> 99% patch.
> >> 
> >> regards
> >> Howard
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: a step in my curve

2008-04-16 by Howard Shaw

Hi Paolo

MIS sell a lot of inks so I'm still not sure what inks you have in which 
positions. You have Eboni black in the K position with, it appears from 
the qidf file, 5 further grey inks (at vastly different limits) in a 
hextone partition where the darkest grey is in the M position followed 
by successively lighter greys in the C, LM, LC & Y positions. Is that 
correct? Which MIS set is that? (MIS do sell UT-RC inks for the R260 but 
the arrangement you have here would not be appropriate for that as it is 
a tritone set with duplicate inks in the C & M positions and in the 
LM,LC & Y positions.)

LIMIT_K=30
LIMIT_C=25
LIMIT_M=75
LIMIT_Y=5
LIMIT_LC=12
LIMIT_LM=25
N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=6
GRAY_INK_1=K
GRAY_VAL_1=100
GRAY_INK_2=M
GRAY_VAL_2=38,33
GRAY_INK_3=C
GRAY_VAL_3=29
GRAY_INK_4=LM
GRAY_VAL_4=16,66
GRAY_INK_5=LC
GRAY_VAL_5=11
GRAY_INK_6=Y
GRAY_VAL_6=5,66

How did you arrive at these limits? The Magenta position sticks out as 
being much highter than the rest & it might be that that should be 
reduced but without knowing what inks you have it is difficult to say 
for certain.

One further question - are you printing at 1440 or 2880dpi? At 2880 a 
limit of 75 would probably be too much for EAM.

regards
Howard

paolovertullo wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> morning Howard,
> yesterday night i made same tests and you are right. 
> I added an overlap and it was much better but there is an overinking
> problem. The magenta ink arrives to his darker grey after starting to
> overload the paper.
> have i to use magenta in a range where it doesn't overink ?
> I use MIS ink with ebony black with an Epson R265 (european version
> for the r260) and Epson Archive Matte paper.
> 
> thanks
> Paolo
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
>>
>> Paolo
>> 
>> What inks are you using here? The ink limits vary widely and this is
> not 
>> like any partition I have seen before. If I was to guess at the
> cause of 
>> the problem I would say that, upto the 98% spot, the magenta position 
>> ink in combination with the black ink is overinking the paper reducing 
>> dmax. Because you have no overlap the black is on its own at the 100% 
>> step and you're dmax is therefore restored (with an overlap the magenta 
>> would still fire at the 100% point). You could test this by adding an 
>> overlap of say 8. If I am right this will reduce the reading at 100% 
>> more in line with that at 98%. However this test is only confirming the 
>> problem - overinking - which still needs to be resolved.
>> 
>> (I've also not seen the use of commas as decimal places in qidf files 
>> before but I guess you would be having greater problems if these were 
>> not allowed).
>> 
>> regards
>> Howard
>> 
>

Re: a step in my curve

2008-04-16 by paolovertullo

Hi Howard
i bought UT-RCN Cartridge Set (6) Neutral Tones w/Eboni 
RCN-CART-SET-K from inksupply.com site.

i have Eboni black in K position and for the other positions i
followed the name printed on the tanks.
After i printed the ink_limit_pattern i can see that M is the darkest
grey followed by the C and then Y,LC and LM are lighter.
You see so different limit because M and C are very close as dark
greys and Y,LC,LM also as light greys.
In order to use all the 6 inks i have choosen to use Y,LC,LM for
different portion of light gray and M,C for different portion of dark
grey (i don't know if i am clear enough). 
May be i will arrive to the same result if i use only three ink (K,M,Y
for example) but why MIS sells kit with ink so close one to another ? 

Yes i am printing at 2880 dpi.
What doesn't EAM means ?     

bye
Paolo



--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Paolo
> 
> MIS sell a lot of inks so I'm still not sure what inks you have in
which 
> positions. You have Eboni black in the K position with, it appears from 
> the qidf file, 5 further grey inks (at vastly different limits) in a 
> hextone partition where the darkest grey is in the M position followed 
> by successively lighter greys in the C, LM, LC & Y positions. Is that 
> correct? Which MIS set is that? (MIS do sell UT-RC inks for the R260
but 
> the arrangement you have here would not be appropriate for that as
it is 
> a tritone set with duplicate inks in the C & M positions and in the 
> LM,LC & Y positions.)
> 
> LIMIT_K=30
> LIMIT_C=25
> LIMIT_M=75
> LIMIT_Y=5
> LIMIT_LC=12
> LIMIT_LM=25
> N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=6
> GRAY_INK_1=K
> GRAY_VAL_1=100
> GRAY_INK_2=M
> GRAY_VAL_2=38,33
> GRAY_INK_3=C
> GRAY_VAL_3=29
> GRAY_INK_4=LM
> GRAY_VAL_4=16,66
> GRAY_INK_5=LC
> GRAY_VAL_5=11
> GRAY_INK_6=Y
> GRAY_VAL_6=5,66
> 
> How did you arrive at these limits? The Magenta position sticks out as 
> being much highter than the rest & it might be that that should be 
> reduced but without knowing what inks you have it is difficult to say 
> for certain.
> 
> One further question - are you printing at 1440 or 2880dpi? At 2880 a 
> limit of 75 would probably be too much for EAM.
> 
> regards
> Howard
> 
> paolovertullo wrote:
> > morning Howard,
> > yesterday night i made same tests and you are right. 
> > I added an overlap and it was much better but there is an overinking
> > problem. The magenta ink arrives to his darker grey after starting to
> > overload the paper.
> > have i to use magenta in a range where it doesn't overink ?
> > I use MIS ink with ebony black with an Epson R265 (european version
> > for the r260) and Epson Archive Matte paper.
> > 
> > thanks
> > Paolo
> > 
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Paolo
> >> 
> >> What inks are you using here? The ink limits vary widely and this is
> > not 
> >> like any partition I have seen before. If I was to guess at the
> > cause of 
> >> the problem I would say that, upto the 98% spot, the magenta
position 
> >> ink in combination with the black ink is overinking the paper
reducing 
> >> dmax. Because you have no overlap the black is on its own at the
100% 
> >> step and you're dmax is therefore restored (with an overlap the
magenta 
> >> would still fire at the 100% point). You could test this by
adding an 
> >> overlap of say 8. If I am right this will reduce the reading at 100% 
> >> more in line with that at 98%. However this test is only
confirming the 
> >> problem - overinking - which still needs to be resolved.
> >> 
> >> (I've also not seen the use of commas as decimal places in qidf
files 
> >> before but I guess you would be having greater problems if these
were 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >> not allowed).
> >> 
> >> regards
> >> Howard
> >> 
> >
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: a step in my curve

2008-04-16 by Howard Shaw

Hi Paolo

The UT-RCN set has only 3 different dilutions of ink:
K - Eboni
Dark Grey - M & C which are identical
Light Grey - LC,LM & Y which are identical.

If you find the shades are not as above then the issue is one of MIS 
quality control.

Ideally then, you would have use a 3-way partition (rather thn 6) and 
use the copy curve facility for the duplicate inks. A typical set up for 
2880dpi printing might look something like this:

...
DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=30
BOOST_K=35
LIMIT_K=30
LIMIT_C=18
LIMIT_M=18
LIMIT_Y=15
LIMIT_LC=15
LIMIT_LM=15
N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=3
GRAY_INK_1=K
GRAY_VAL_1=100
GRAY_INK_2=C
GRAY_VAL_2=38
GRAY_INK_3=LC
GRAY_VAL_3=15
GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=4
GRAY_SHADOW=8
GRAY_OVERLAP=16
GRAY_GAMMA=1
...
COPY_CURVE_M=C
COPY_CURVE_Y=LC
COPY_CURVE_LM=LC
...

Note that the limits for M & C are halved & those of Y, LC & LM are 
divided by 3 as you split the required density across the ink positions.

The reason MIS sell sets like this is that they can be used for printing 
directly with the Epson driver. With Qtr you obviously have more 
flexibility  such as being able to use a warm set alongside the neutral 
set to give you a choice of tones and split toning. However if you go 
with the single set with the duplicate inks you should get smoother 
results as more nozzles are firing at once.

EAM = Epson Archival Matte

regards
Howard

paolovertullo wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hi Howard
> i bought UT-RCN Cartridge Set (6) Neutral Tones w/Eboni 
> RCN-CART-SET-K from inksupply.com site.
> 
> i have Eboni black in K position and for the other positions i
> followed the name printed on the tanks.
> After i printed the ink_limit_pattern i can see that M is the darkest
> grey followed by the C and then Y,LC and LM are lighter.
> You see so different limit because M and C are very close as dark
> greys and Y,LC,LM also as light greys.
> In order to use all the 6 inks i have choosen to use Y,LC,LM for
> different portion of light gray and M,C for different portion of dark
> grey (i don't know if i am clear enough). 
> May be i will arrive to the same result if i use only three ink (K,M,Y
> for example) but why MIS sells kit with ink so close one to another ? 
> 
> Yes i am printing at 2880 dpi.
> What doesn't EAM means ?     
> 
> bye
> Paolo
>

Re: a step in my curve

2008-04-16 by paolovertullo

Hi Howard
just to see if i have understood well

I scanned the ink_limit_pattern and misured the L value with photoshop
and found that 

on K for limit 30 i have L=24
on C and M for limit 90 i have L=35 ---> on K i have L=35 for limit 15
on Y,LC,LM for limit 90 i have L=45 ---> on K i have L=45 for limit 10

so i created a curve with 
C limit 45 (half of 90) and denisty = 15/30*100 = 50
M copy corve from C
LC limit 30 (90/3) and denisty = 10/30*100 = 33
Y copy corve from LC
LM  copy corve from LC

why you choose :  
GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=4
GRAY_SHADOW=8
GRAY_OVERLAP=16
GRAY_GAMMA=1
am i supposed to make some other considerations ? 
a good starting point wasn't 
GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=10
GRAY_SHADOW=10
GRAY_OVERLAP=
GRAY_GAMMA=1

Here my new .qidf i named the curve with your name :-)

PRINTER=QuadR260-MIS
CURVE_NAME=MK-EAM-HOWARD_1
GRAPH_CURVE=YES
N_OF_INKS=6
DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=30
BOOST_K=35
LIMIT_K=30
LIMIT_C=45
LIMIT_M=45
LIMIT_Y=30
LIMIT_LC=30
LIMIT_LM=30
N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=3
GRAY_INK_1=K
GRAY_VAL_1=100
GRAY_INK_2=C
GRAY_VAL_2=50
GRAY_INK_3=LC
GRAY_VAL_3=33
GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=4
GRAY_SHADOW=8
GRAY_OVERLAP=16
GRAY_GAMMA=1
GRAY_CURVE=
N_OF_TONER_PARTS=0
TONER_HIGHLIGHT=10
TONER_SHADOW=10
TONER_GAMMA=1
TONER_CURVE=
N_OF_TONER_2_PARTS=0
TONER_2_HIGHLIGHT=10
TONER_2_SHADOW=10
TONER_2_GAMMA=1
TONER_2_CURVE=
N_OF_UNUSED=0
COPY_CURVE_M=C
COPY_CURVE_Y=LC
COPY_CURVE_LM=LC

a last question : have i to print with 1440 dpi on EAM ?

many many thanks
Paolo

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Paolo
> 
> The UT-RCN set has only 3 different dilutions of ink:
> K - Eboni
> Dark Grey - M & C which are identical
> Light Grey - LC,LM & Y which are identical.
> 
> If you find the shades are not as above then the issue is one of MIS 
> quality control.
> 
> Ideally then, you would have use a 3-way partition (rather thn 6) and 
> use the copy curve facility for the duplicate inks. A typical set up
for 
> 2880dpi printing might look something like this:
> 
> ...
> DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=30
> BOOST_K=35
> LIMIT_K=30
> LIMIT_C=18
> LIMIT_M=18
> LIMIT_Y=15
> LIMIT_LC=15
> LIMIT_LM=15
> N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=3
> GRAY_INK_1=K
> GRAY_VAL_1=100
> GRAY_INK_2=C
> GRAY_VAL_2=38
> GRAY_INK_3=LC
> GRAY_VAL_3=15
> GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=4
> GRAY_SHADOW=8
> GRAY_OVERLAP=16
> GRAY_GAMMA=1
> ...
> COPY_CURVE_M=C
> COPY_CURVE_Y=LC
> COPY_CURVE_LM=LC
> ...
> 
> Note that the limits for M & C are halved & those of Y, LC & LM are 
> divided by 3 as you split the required density across the ink positions.
> 
> The reason MIS sell sets like this is that they can be used for
printing 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> directly with the Epson driver. With Qtr you obviously have more 
> flexibility  such as being able to use a warm set alongside the neutral 
> set to give you a choice of tones and split toning. However if you go 
> with the single set with the duplicate inks you should get smoother 
> results as more nozzles are firing at once.
> 
> EAM = Epson Archival Matte
> 
> regards
> Howard
> 
> paolovertullo wrote:
> > Hi Howard
> > i bought UT-RCN Cartridge Set (6) Neutral Tones w/Eboni 
> > RCN-CART-SET-K from inksupply.com site.
> > 
> > i have Eboni black in K position and for the other positions i
> > followed the name printed on the tanks.
> > After i printed the ink_limit_pattern i can see that M is the darkest
> > grey followed by the C and then Y,LC and LM are lighter.
> > You see so different limit because M and C are very close as dark
> > greys and Y,LC,LM also as light greys.
> > In order to use all the 6 inks i have choosen to use Y,LC,LM for
> > different portion of light gray and M,C for different portion of dark
> > grey (i don't know if i am clear enough). 
> > May be i will arrive to the same result if i use only three ink (K,M,Y
> > for example) but why MIS sells kit with ink so close one to another ? 
> > 
> > Yes i am printing at 2880 dpi.
> > What doesn't EAM means ?     
> > 
> > bye
> > Paolo
> >
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: a step in my curve

2008-04-16 by Howard Shaw

Hi Paolo

 > on K for limit 30 i have L=24
 > on C and M for limit 90 i have L=35 ---> on K i have L=35 for limit 15
 > on Y,LC,LM for limit 90 i have L=45 ---> on K i have L=45 for limit 10
 >
 > so i created a curve with
 > C limit 45 (half of 90) and denisty = 15/30*100 = 50
 > M copy corve from C
 > LC limit 30 (90/3) and denisty = 10/30*100 = 33
 > Y copy corve from LC
 > LM  copy corve from LC

I'm not sure if I follow that although the end result might be okay! 
It's not clear from what you have written but you should compare the 
100% patch for C printed at your chosen limit (90) with the equivalent K 
value on the reprinted ink separation page with the ink calibration bar 
set at 30 (your chosen limit for K).

Then calculate as follows:
The 100% patch for C on the limit 90 print measures L=35 which is 
equivalent to the 50% K patch on the limit 30 print
Therefore first partition = 50
The 100% patch for LC on the limit 90 print measures L=45 = 33% K 
'patch' (ie somewhere between the 30% & 35% patches) on the 30% limit print
Therefore second partition = 33

You are correct with your sub-division of the duplicated inks.

As a general comment, the limits and densities for the non-K inks seem 
high to me particularly for 2880dpi but I don't have an R260 so can't 
judge. Are you sure you are getting clearly visible separation between 
patches at 90%? If not, you should reduce the limits to a point where 
you are getting good separation.

You are at a disadvantage using a scanner as opposed to a densitometer 
or similar. For example the Dmax for eboni on EAM should be in the 
region of 16-17, not 24.

 > why you choose :
 > GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=4
 > GRAY_SHADOW=8
 > GRAY_OVERLAP=16
 > GRAY_GAMMA=1

These are the defaults - no need to change them unless there is a 
particular issue.

 > a last question : have i to print with 1440 dpi on EAM ?

No, 2880dpi is fine as long as the inks are limited correctly.

regards
Howard

paolovertullo wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hi Howard
> just to see if i have understood well
> 
> I scanned the ink_limit_pattern and misured the L value with photoshop
> and found that 
> 
> on K for limit 30 i have L=24
> on C and M for limit 90 i have L=35 ---> on K i have L=35 for limit 15
> on Y,LC,LM for limit 90 i have L=45 ---> on K i have L=45 for limit 10
> 
> so i created a curve with 
> C limit 45 (half of 90) and denisty = 15/30*100 = 50
> M copy corve from C
> LC limit 30 (90/3) and denisty = 10/30*100 = 33
> Y copy corve from LC
> LM  copy corve from LC
> 
> why you choose :  
> GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=4
> GRAY_SHADOW=8
> GRAY_OVERLAP=16
> GRAY_GAMMA=1
> am i supposed to make some other considerations ? 
> a good starting point wasn't 
> GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=10
> GRAY_SHADOW=10
> GRAY_OVERLAP=
> GRAY_GAMMA=1
> 
> Here my new .qidf i named the curve with your name :-)
> 
> PRINTER=QuadR260-MIS
> CURVE_NAME=MK-EAM-HOWARD_1
> GRAPH_CURVE=YES
> N_OF_INKS=6
> DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=30
> BOOST_K=35
> LIMIT_K=30
> LIMIT_C=45
> LIMIT_M=45
> LIMIT_Y=30
> LIMIT_LC=30
> LIMIT_LM=30
> N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=3
> GRAY_INK_1=K
> GRAY_VAL_1=100
> GRAY_INK_2=C
> GRAY_VAL_2=50
> GRAY_INK_3=LC
> GRAY_VAL_3=33
> GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=4
> GRAY_SHADOW=8
> GRAY_OVERLAP=16
> GRAY_GAMMA=1
> GRAY_CURVE=
> N_OF_TONER_PARTS=0
> TONER_HIGHLIGHT=10
> TONER_SHADOW=10
> TONER_GAMMA=1
> TONER_CURVE=
> N_OF_TONER_2_PARTS=0
> TONER_2_HIGHLIGHT=10
> TONER_2_SHADOW=10
> TONER_2_GAMMA=1
> TONER_2_CURVE=
> N_OF_UNUSED=0
> COPY_CURVE_M=C
> COPY_CURVE_Y=LC
> COPY_CURVE_LM=LC
> 
> a last question : have i to print with 1440 dpi on EAM ?
> 
> many many thanks
> Paolo
>

Re: a step in my curve

2008-04-17 by paolovertullo

Hi Howard,
yesterday night i used all your advices and finally i create a curve
that prints a 21step.psd without a step (may be just a little step but
nothing compere to the other curve). happy of the result i printed a
foto and i realized that was darker then what i was seeing on my
monitor. I modifyed gamma from 1 to 1,5 but the result was that the
picture was lighter but the step appeared again !!! 

The curve that works well but print darker is here :

N_OF_INKS=6
DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=30
BOOST_K=30
LIMIT_K=30
LIMIT_C=15
LIMIT_M=15
LIMIT_Y=13,33
LIMIT_LC=13,33
LIMIT_LM=13,33
N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=3
GRAY_INK_1=K
GRAY_VAL_1=100
GRAY_INK_2=C
GRAY_VAL_2=33,33
GRAY_INK_3=LC
GRAY_VAL_3=16,66
GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=10
GRAY_SHADOW=6
GRAY_OVERLAP=20
GRAY_GAMMA=1
GRAY_CURVE=
N_OF_TONER_PARTS=0
TONER_HIGHLIGHT=10
TONER_SHADOW=10
TONER_GAMMA=1
TONER_CURVE=
N_OF_TONER_2_PARTS=0
TONER_2_HIGHLIGHT=10
TONER_2_SHADOW=10
TONER_2_GAMMA=1
TONER_2_CURVE=
N_OF_UNUSED=0
COPY_CURVE_M=C
COPY_CURVE_Y=LC
COPY_CURVE_LM=LC


do you think i have to preprocess the photos with a brigthness layer
on photoshop ? or may be i am a problem with settings of my monitor
(lcd samsung) ?


 

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Paolo
> 
>  > on K for limit 30 i have L=24
>  > on C and M for limit 90 i have L=35 ---> on K i have L=35 for
limit 15
>  > on Y,LC,LM for limit 90 i have L=45 ---> on K i have L=45 for
limit 10
>  >
>  > so i created a curve with
>  > C limit 45 (half of 90) and denisty = 15/30*100 = 50
>  > M copy corve from C
>  > LC limit 30 (90/3) and denisty = 10/30*100 = 33
>  > Y copy corve from LC
>  > LM  copy corve from LC
> 
> I'm not sure if I follow that although the end result might be okay! 
> It's not clear from what you have written but you should compare the 
> 100% patch for C printed at your chosen limit (90) with the
equivalent K 
> value on the reprinted ink separation page with the ink calibration bar 
> set at 30 (your chosen limit for K).
> 
> Then calculate as follows:
> The 100% patch for C on the limit 90 print measures L=35 which is 
> equivalent to the 50% K patch on the limit 30 print
> Therefore first partition = 50
> The 100% patch for LC on the limit 90 print measures L=45 = 33% K 
> 'patch' (ie somewhere between the 30% & 35% patches) on the 30%
limit print
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Therefore second partition = 33
> 
> You are correct with your sub-division of the duplicated inks.
> 
> As a general comment, the limits and densities for the non-K inks seem 
> high to me particularly for 2880dpi but I don't have an R260 so can't 
> judge. Are you sure you are getting clearly visible separation between 
> patches at 90%? If not, you should reduce the limits to a point where 
> you are getting good separation.
> 
> You are at a disadvantage using a scanner as opposed to a densitometer 
> or similar. For example the Dmax for eboni on EAM should be in the 
> region of 16-17, not 24.
> 
>  > why you choose :
>  > GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=4
>  > GRAY_SHADOW=8
>  > GRAY_OVERLAP=16
>  > GRAY_GAMMA=1
> 
> These are the defaults - no need to change them unless there is a 
> particular issue.
> 
>  > a last question : have i to print with 1440 dpi on EAM ?
> 
> No, 2880dpi is fine as long as the inks are limited correctly.
> 
> regards
> Howard
> 
> paolovertullo wrote:
> > Hi Howard
> > just to see if i have understood well
> > 
> > I scanned the ink_limit_pattern and misured the L value with photoshop
> > and found that 
> > 
> > on K for limit 30 i have L=24
> > on C and M for limit 90 i have L=35 ---> on K i have L=35 for limit 15
> > on Y,LC,LM for limit 90 i have L=45 ---> on K i have L=45 for limit 10
> > 
> > so i created a curve with 
> > C limit 45 (half of 90) and denisty = 15/30*100 = 50
> > M copy corve from C
> > LC limit 30 (90/3) and denisty = 10/30*100 = 33
> > Y copy corve from LC
> > LM  copy corve from LC
> > 
> > why you choose :  
> > GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=4
> > GRAY_SHADOW=8
> > GRAY_OVERLAP=16
> > GRAY_GAMMA=1
> > am i supposed to make some other considerations ? 
> > a good starting point wasn't 
> > GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=10
> > GRAY_SHADOW=10
> > GRAY_OVERLAP=
> > GRAY_GAMMA=1
> > 
> > Here my new .qidf i named the curve with your name :-)
> > 
> > PRINTER=QuadR260-MIS
> > CURVE_NAME=MK-EAM-HOWARD_1
> > GRAPH_CURVE=YES
> > N_OF_INKS=6
> > DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=30
> > BOOST_K=35
> > LIMIT_K=30
> > LIMIT_C=45
> > LIMIT_M=45
> > LIMIT_Y=30
> > LIMIT_LC=30
> > LIMIT_LM=30
> > N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=3
> > GRAY_INK_1=K
> > GRAY_VAL_1=100
> > GRAY_INK_2=C
> > GRAY_VAL_2=50
> > GRAY_INK_3=LC
> > GRAY_VAL_3=33
> > GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=4
> > GRAY_SHADOW=8
> > GRAY_OVERLAP=16
> > GRAY_GAMMA=1
> > GRAY_CURVE=
> > N_OF_TONER_PARTS=0
> > TONER_HIGHLIGHT=10
> > TONER_SHADOW=10
> > TONER_GAMMA=1
> > TONER_CURVE=
> > N_OF_TONER_2_PARTS=0
> > TONER_2_HIGHLIGHT=10
> > TONER_2_SHADOW=10
> > TONER_2_GAMMA=1
> > TONER_2_CURVE=
> > N_OF_UNUSED=0
> > COPY_CURVE_M=C
> > COPY_CURVE_Y=LC
> > COPY_CURVE_LM=LC
> > 
> > a last question : have i to print with 1440 dpi on EAM ?
> > 
> > many many thanks
> > Paolo
> >
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: a step in my curve

2008-04-17 by Howard Shaw

Hi Paolo

Glad to hear you're close to getting good results. The qidf file you 
have copied below does not include any linearisation figures - have you 
carried out this part of the process?

When it comes to screen to print matching there are of course other 
issues not specifically related to qtr which are important such as 
screen calibration & color management. Personally I would not adjust the 
gamma in qtr or start applying special curves in photoshop before you 
have addressed these issues. I am not an expert but there are others on 
the board who may be able to help with that subject.

regards
Howard

paolovertullo wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hi Howard,
> yesterday night i used all your advices and finally i create a curve
> that prints a 21step.psd without a step (may be just a little step but
> nothing compere to the other curve). happy of the result i printed a
> foto and i realized that was darker then what i was seeing on my
> monitor. I modifyed gamma from 1 to 1,5 but the result was that the
> picture was lighter but the step appeared again !!! 
> 
> The curve that works well but print darker is here :
> 
> N_OF_INKS=6
> DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=30
> BOOST_K=30
> LIMIT_K=30
> LIMIT_C=15
> LIMIT_M=15
> LIMIT_Y=13,33
> LIMIT_LC=13,33
> LIMIT_LM=13,33
> N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=3
> GRAY_INK_1=K
> GRAY_VAL_1=100
> GRAY_INK_2=C
> GRAY_VAL_2=33,33
> GRAY_INK_3=LC
> GRAY_VAL_3=16,66
> GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=10
> GRAY_SHADOW=6
> GRAY_OVERLAP=20
> GRAY_GAMMA=1
> GRAY_CURVE=
> N_OF_TONER_PARTS=0
> TONER_HIGHLIGHT=10
> TONER_SHADOW=10
> TONER_GAMMA=1
> TONER_CURVE=
> N_OF_TONER_2_PARTS=0
> TONER_2_HIGHLIGHT=10
> TONER_2_SHADOW=10
> TONER_2_GAMMA=1
> TONER_2_CURVE=
> N_OF_UNUSED=0
> COPY_CURVE_M=C
> COPY_CURVE_Y=LC
> COPY_CURVE_LM=LC
> 
> 
> do you think i have to preprocess the photos with a brigthness layer
> on photoshop ? or may be i am a problem with settings of my monitor
> (lcd samsung) ?
>

Re: a step in my curve

2008-04-17 by paolovertullo

Hi Howard,
thank you for all your help , now i'll start with linearisation.
Unfortunately i haven't any densitometer so i have to use a scanned file. 
If i understand well i'll print the 21step.tif then once scanned i'll
use photoshop in lab mode with eye drop (3x3) to read the L values and
to insert them in the linearisation matrix on qtr.

i hope it will work.....

bye
Paolo




--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Paolo
> 
> Glad to hear you're close to getting good results. The qidf file you 
> have copied below does not include any linearisation figures - have you 
> carried out this part of the process?
> 
> When it comes to screen to print matching there are of course other 
> issues not specifically related to qtr which are important such as 
> screen calibration & color management. Personally I would not adjust
the 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> gamma in qtr or start applying special curves in photoshop before you 
> have addressed these issues. I am not an expert but there are others on 
> the board who may be able to help with that subject.
> 
> regards
> Howard
> 
> paolovertullo wrote:
> > Hi Howard,
> > yesterday night i used all your advices and finally i create a curve
> > that prints a 21step.psd without a step (may be just a little step but
> > nothing compere to the other curve). happy of the result i printed a
> > foto and i realized that was darker then what i was seeing on my
> > monitor. I modifyed gamma from 1 to 1,5 but the result was that the
> > picture was lighter but the step appeared again !!! 
> > 
> > The curve that works well but print darker is here :
> > 
> > N_OF_INKS=6
> > DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=30
> > BOOST_K=30
> > LIMIT_K=30
> > LIMIT_C=15
> > LIMIT_M=15
> > LIMIT_Y=13,33
> > LIMIT_LC=13,33
> > LIMIT_LM=13,33
> > N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=3
> > GRAY_INK_1=K
> > GRAY_VAL_1=100
> > GRAY_INK_2=C
> > GRAY_VAL_2=33,33
> > GRAY_INK_3=LC
> > GRAY_VAL_3=16,66
> > GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=10
> > GRAY_SHADOW=6
> > GRAY_OVERLAP=20
> > GRAY_GAMMA=1
> > GRAY_CURVE=
> > N_OF_TONER_PARTS=0
> > TONER_HIGHLIGHT=10
> > TONER_SHADOW=10
> > TONER_GAMMA=1
> > TONER_CURVE=
> > N_OF_TONER_2_PARTS=0
> > TONER_2_HIGHLIGHT=10
> > TONER_2_SHADOW=10
> > TONER_2_GAMMA=1
> > TONER_2_CURVE=
> > N_OF_UNUSED=0
> > COPY_CURVE_M=C
> > COPY_CURVE_Y=LC
> > COPY_CURVE_LM=LC
> > 
> > 
> > do you think i have to preprocess the photos with a brigthness layer
> > on photoshop ? or may be i am a problem with settings of my monitor
> > (lcd samsung) ?
> >
>

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