QTR-Quadtone RIP

I  had stubborn banding in dark areas. Here's what worked for me, in case it helps anyone.

Using:

QTR 2.6.1
Mac/ 10.5.4
CS3 10.0.1
Epson 2200 w Epson inks (matte only)

Okay. We're talking about faint but clear banding in line w/ the printhead, showing up only 
in deep shadows. Cleaning, aligning etc. didn't help. I followed advice in this forum -- 
switched dithers, resampled to 360ppi and 720 ppi, switched between 1440-super and 
1440 regular. Various combos did help, but nothing worked completely. Adding gaussian 
noise to the shadows also helped, but weakened the deep blacks.

Solution: Print at 2880 dpi, even though the profiles are designed for 1440. (I use the 
stock QTR profiles) Printing at 2880 made prints come out very, very dark w some 
'bronzing" (or whatever you call it where parts of the print look splotchy from some 
angles). To compensate for the darkness/splotchyness, I set "ink limit" to a whopping -42.

It's not graceful but it worked. No splotches, and the final print is very close to what I was 
aiming for. 

Naturally, am very interested if anyone has better ideas or if I've missed a better solution. 
thanks and best.

-- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "jesse.pesta" <jesse.pesta@...> wrote:
>
> I  had stubborn banding in dark areas. 

A pass or two of a "pre-moistened-sheet" sold by office supplies
stores (eg Staples or Office Depot) as part of inexpensive "inkjet
printer cleaning kit" should eliminate banding and other problems that
develop over time. 

Extreme settings (eg ink loading) and playing with dither DO sometimes
reduce banding, but I think that's a temporary fix. I've found that
simply cleaning the machine with one of those sheets allows neutral
settings and makes dither selections unimportant.

Moistening paper with Windex and running that through machine has been
suggested, but that may clog the machine with bits of paper. The
office supply sheets are stronger than paper... an absorbent plastic,
they don't fall apart. 

Using matte paper, you shouldn't see any bronzing unless you are 
over-loading ink. IMO

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "djon43" <djon43@...> wrote:
>
> 
> A pass or two of a "pre-moistened-sheet" sold by office supplies
> stores (eg Staples or Office Depot) as part of inexpensive "inkjet
> printer cleaning kit" should eliminate banding and other problems > 
that develop over time. 

excellent! i had no idea about that product and will try asap. the 
banding developed recently after a few years of printing w/o issues. 
> 
> Using matte paper, you shouldn't see any bronzing unless you are 
> over-loading ink. IMO
>
yes,wasnt sure of terminology there. it was clearly overloading the 
ink till i dialed back the 'ink limit" thing.

many thanks for the tip.

Question: Is there a simple way to modify a QTR profile so it 
automatically dials back the "ink limit" setting? 

FYI I'm newbie at playing around in profiles.

Or better yet, are profiles available somewhere for Epson Enhanced 
Matte or Velvet Fine Art paper for printing at 2880? (Using stock 
UltraChrome inks on a Epson 2200.)

 Many thanks again.

I also used some inkjet cleaning sheets. They made a very big 
improvement in the banding-in-shadows problem ... but didn't fix it 
entirely. So my original solution -- print at 2880, dial back 
the "ink limit" -- still works best for me. I suppose the printer is 
just getting old.





--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "jesse.pesta" <jesse.pesta@...> 
wrote:
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "djon43" <djon43@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > A pass or two of a "pre-moistened-sheet" sold by office supplies
> > stores (eg Staples or Office Depot) as part of 
inexpensive "inkjet
> > printer cleaning kit" should eliminate banding and other 
problems > 
> that develop over time. 
> 
> excellent! i had no idea about that product and will try asap. the 
> banding developed recently after a few years of printing w/o 
issues. 
> > 
> > Using matte paper, you shouldn't see any bronzing unless you are 
> > over-loading ink. IMO
> >
> yes,wasnt sure of terminology there. it was clearly overloading 
the 

> ink till i dialed back the 'ink limit" thing.
> 
> many thanks for the tip.
>

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "jesse.pesta" <jesse.pesta@...> wrote:
> Or better yet, are profiles available somewhere for Epson Enhanced 
> Matte or Velvet Fine Art paper for printing at 2880? (Using stock 
> UltraChrome inks on a Epson 2200.)

There are profiles for EEM and UC for the 2200:
UC-EEnhMatte-cool
UC-EEnhMatte-coolSe
UC-EEnhMatte-Sepia
UC-EEnhMatte-Warm

However I found on my 2100/2200 that EEM doesn't handle 2880 all that
well, at least not with John Cone's own curves.  I print his curves at
1440 and scale them up by around 40%.  I agree that the lack of
existing VFA curves for the 2100/2200 is a pain.  I'm not using UC at
the moment, so I can't help.  Sorry.

F_P

Unfortnately the EEM curves you mention (which are what I currently
use in my workaround) were designed to print at 1440, according to
QTR's documentation.





--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ferdinand_paris"
<ferdinand_paris@...> wrote:

>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "jesse.pesta" <jesse.pesta@> wrote:
> > Or better yet, are profiles available somewhere for Epson Enhanced 
> > Matte or Velvet Fine Art paper for printing at 2880? (Using stock 
> > UltraChrome inks on a Epson 2200.)
> 
> There are profiles for EEM and UC for the 2200:
> UC-EEnhMatte-cool
> UC-EEnhMatte-coolSe
> UC-EEnhMatte-Sepia
> UC-EEnhMatte-Warm
> 
> However I found on my 2100/2200 that EEM doesn't handle 2880 all that
> well, at least not with John Cone's own curves.  I print his curves at
> 1440 and scale them up by around 40%.  I agree that the lack of
> existing VFA curves for the 2100/2200 is a pain.  I'm not using UC at
> the moment, so I can't help.  Sorry.
> 
> F_P
>

...as to that 2880 detail....

I've never heard of anyone successfully using a 2200 at 2880 with any
profile or any ink on any paper. 

I don't think 2200 or its pigment were manufactured to properly
deliver a 2880 level of performance, or that photo papers would
resolve it anyway...1440 comes close to the limit of paper's ability
to resolve detail : take a look at the dots with a loupe.
 


are profiles available somewhere for Epson Enhanced 
> > Matte or Velvet Fine Art paper for printing at 2880? (Using stock 
> > UltraChrome inks on a Epson 2200.)
\

> 
> However I found on my 2100/2200 that EEM doesn't handle 2880 all that
> well,

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "djon43" <djon43@...> wrote:
>
> ...as to that 2880 detail....
> 
> I've never heard of anyone successfully using a 2200 at 2880 with any
> profile or any ink on any paper. 
> 
> I don't think 2200 or its pigment were manufactured to properly
> deliver a 2880 level of performance, or that photo papers would
> resolve it anyway...1440 comes close to the limit of paper's ability
> to resolve detail : take a look at the dots with a loupe.
>  

This has been discussed before and the other factor beside detail is 
dmax. The 2200 at 2880 will deliver considerably better dmax than at 
1440 when used with QTR. Develop your own curves, take a measurement 
and you'll notice the difference.

Dario

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "met.graphix" <metgraphix@...> 
wrote:
 
> This has been discussed before and the other factor beside detail 
is 
> dmax. The 2200 at 2880 will deliver considerably better dmax than 
at 
> 1440 when used with QTR. Develop your own curves, take a 
measurement 
> and you'll notice the difference.
> 
> Dario
>

I support this. I've never had much banding on my own 2100 on 1440 
dpi, but know others that had and, in that case, going to 2880 dpi 
removed the banding. I went to 2880 for dmax and smoothness reasons. 

But using 1440 dpi curves with a 2880 setting and fiddling with ink 
limits to get it right is not the way to go. If you want a 2880 dpi 
setting you must design your curves appropriately. I have some 2880 
dpi curvers for the 2100/UT3D/PhotoRag combo if you're interested.

Joost

I have been having the same problem on prints with deep black shadows. 

Am using:

QTR 2.6.1
Mac/ 10.5.4
CS3 10.0.1
Epson R2400 w Epson inks (matte only)

with stock QTR profiles and switching to 2880 dpi notonly gets rid of the banding but 
makes for a hands down better print although the printing time more than doubles.
 






--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "jesse.pesta" <jesse.pesta@...> wrote:
>
> I  had stubborn banding in dark areas. Here's what worked for me, in case it helps 
anyone.
> 
> Using:
> 
> QTR 2.6.1
> Mac/ 10.5.4
> CS3 10.0.1
> Epson 2200 w Epson inks (matte only)
> 
> Okay. We're talking about faint but clear banding in line w/ the printhead, showing up 
only 
> in deep shadows. Cleaning, aligning etc. didn't help. I followed advice in this forum -- 
> switched dithers, resampled to 360ppi and 720 ppi, switched between 1440-super and 
> 1440 regular. Various combos did help, but nothing worked completely. Adding 
gaussian 
> noise to the shadows also helped, but weakened the deep blacks.
> 
> Solution: Print at 2880 dpi, even though the profiles are designed for 1440. (I use the 
> stock QTR profiles) Printing at 2880 made prints come out very, very dark w some 
> 'bronzing" (or whatever you call it where parts of the print look splotchy from some 
> angles). To compensate for the darkness/splotchyness, I set "ink limit" to a whopping -
42.
> 
> It's not graceful but it worked. No splotches, and the final print is very close to what I 
was 
> aiming for. 
> 
> Naturally, am very interested if anyone has better ideas or if I've missed a better 
solution. 
> thanks and best.
>