QTR-Quadtone RIP

Hi there,

First time poster here and just cutting my teeth on QTR. Thanks to 
Roy Harrington and all those who have brought this to the B&W 
printing community. I am literally just starting and haven't done 
much other than starting calibration. 

I have a basic workflow question I hope someone can answer.

I have the UT7 inkset and am using the following workflow:

1. Photoediting in PS including image sizing for output.
2. Open in Qimage, set print settings to ensure output of 720x720 
printer resolution on my Epson 2100, then print to file.
3. Open Qimage output file in QTR and print.

My question is whether in my first step in Photoshop I should be 
applying one of the Paul Roark curves or not prior to saving the file 
and working on it in Qimage. 

I think not, as later in QTR I specify one of Daniel Staver's curves 
for the UT7 inkset. Still, I believe on another post somewhere I saw 
Daniel mention he does not use exactly the same inks in the same 
positions that MIS markets as the UT7 inkset. 

Still, I'd be very grateful if someone could steer me straight on 
this basic question.

Best regards,

Dave Meddings

Hi Dave,

With QTR you don't apply any of Paul Roark's curves. You just send a plain
grayscale TIFF file. Paul's curves are for printing with the Epson driver
while QTR curves are for printing with QTR only.

I have curves both for the standard inkset and for an inkset where the eboni
black ink is replaced with the MIS PKN photo black ink and the yellow sepia
ink is replaced with MIS gloss optimizer. There are three curves for the
standard UT7 inkset with Eboni:

UT7-EEnhMatte-cool
UT7-EEnhMatte-neutral
UT7-EEnhMatte-carbon

The rest have PKN in the filename and are for the PKN inkset and various
glossy papers.

I'm waiting for an XRite 810 densitometer, and I expect to re-linearize all
my curves once it arrives. I'll post an update to the list once the curves
are complete.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no 

> First time poster here and just cutting my teeth on QTR. 
> Thanks to Roy Harrington and all those who have brought this 
> to the B&W printing community. I am literally just starting 
> and haven't done much other than starting calibration. 
> 
> I have a basic workflow question I hope someone can answer.
> 
> I have the UT7 inkset and am using the following workflow:
> 
> 1. Photoediting in PS including image sizing for output.
> 2. Open in Qimage, set print settings to ensure output of 
> 720x720 printer resolution on my Epson 2100, then print to file.
> 3. Open Qimage output file in QTR and print.
> 
> My question is whether in my first step in Photoshop I should 
> be applying one of the Paul Roark curves or not prior to 
> saving the file and working on it in Qimage. 
> 
> I think not, as later in QTR I specify one of Daniel Staver's 
> curves for the UT7 inkset. Still, I believe on another post 
> somewhere I saw Daniel mention he does not use exactly the 
> same inks in the same positions that MIS markets as the UT7 inkset. 
> 
> Still, I'd be very grateful if someone could steer me 
> straight on this basic question.

Hi Daniel,

Long time no write. My kids are still happy here in Geneva with that 
print you sent us.

Thanks for clearing up the curve question - I thought that was the 
answer but wanted to be sure. BTW I see curves in the Files section 
here and on your Petraflux site for Carbon, Cool and Sepia for EEM. 
No neutral as far as I can see....

Also, my preferred method of converting my digital captures to 
monochrome (after experimenting with many)is John Paul Caponigro's 
method which consists of bringing into an RGB file any or all of the 
RGB channels plus or minus the luminance channel as separate (and 
therefore, monochrome) layers and editing their effect on the image 
through layer masks. What I like about this method is the ability to 
handle the conversion differently in different parts of the 
image...similar to PKS sharpening I suppose. More for those 
interested is here:
 
http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/ps_pro_primers.html

This leaves me with an RGB, as opposed to a grayscale file...this 
makes no difference (I would assume) to working with the files in QTR 
I assume, correct?

I'm sure you'll put the new densitometer to good use and I'll be 
happy to continue using your curves Daniel - in fact up until now I 
have been working with the UT2 inks and your curves from way back 
when...

Warm regards,

Dave

Hi Dave,

It's correct that there's no neutral curve. The typical workflow in QTR is
to choose two curves, like cool and carbon/warm, and then choose a blend
between those two curves at print time to create neutral. You can start with
a 50/50 blend and then move in either direction until you get a tone that
you're happy with. 

QTR will accept RGB images. You might want to check out Roy's grayspace ICC
profiles which you can use to convert your images before printing.

Download grayspaceXYZv2.zip from Roy's download page:
http://homepage.mac.com/royharrington/FileSharing2.html

Instructions are included in the file.

Great to hear that the UT2 inks has worked well for you for such a long
time! I struggled a lot with those curves and I think you were the only one
who actually ended up using them besides myself. 

I just got my densitometer half an hour after writing the last post.
Fortunately it was in good condition with the calibration plaque included.
It was really easy to calibrate and now I'm busy relinearizing my curves. I
might have some ready this evening already. Let me know if you need curves
for any specific papers. I currently plan to do EEM, Photo Rag, Condor
Britewhite and Somerset Velvet Enhanced.

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out!

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

> Long time no write. My kids are still happy here in Geneva 
> with that print you sent us.
> 
> Thanks for clearing up the curve question - I thought that 
> was the answer but wanted to be sure. BTW I see curves in the 
> Files section here and on your Petraflux site for Carbon, 
> Cool and Sepia for EEM. 
> No neutral as far as I can see....
> 
> Also, my preferred method of converting my digital captures 
> to monochrome (after experimenting with many)is John Paul 
> Caponigro's method which consists of bringing into an RGB 
> file any or all of the RGB channels plus or minus the 
> luminance channel as separate (and therefore, monochrome) 
> layers and editing their effect on the image through layer 
> masks. What I like about this method is the ability to handle 
> the conversion differently in different parts of the 
> image...similar to PKS sharpening I suppose. More for those 
> interested is here:
>  
> http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/ps_pro_primers.html
> 
> This leaves me with an RGB, as opposed to a grayscale 
> file...this makes no difference (I would assume) to working 
> with the files in QTR I assume, correct?
> 
> I'm sure you'll put the new densitometer to good use and I'll 
> be happy to continue using your curves Daniel - in fact up 
> until now I have been working with the UT2 inks and your 
> curves from way back when...

Cool Daniel! Good luck with your new toy and glad to hear it is good 
shape. I suspect your father will be happy...

I would love to have some PhotoRag profiles for the UT7 inkset. I 
know it is always said that it prints the same as EEM but I also 
believe its dot gain characteristics are different enough (and the 
paper nice enough) that it deserves its own profiles. Seems to me a 
lot of other people have asked about HPR as well....so you could be 
doing a service for mankind.

I don't have a densitometer and have just read through the users 
guide for the first time and will give the scanner based approach a 
try. I also discovered the threads relating to softproofing and the 
gray working space profiles.

Looking forward to the learning curve and learning curves :~)


Dave

BTW: your new shots from China are great.

I've made new UT7 curves for Epson Enhanced Matte, Hahnemüle Photo Rag and
Condor Britewhite. All curves are available in cool, warm (carbon) and
sepia. 

http://download.petraflux.com/qtr_ut7_matte_profiles.zip

I'm going to redo the sepia curves at some point. I suspect I could make the
sepia tone much stronger. Right now it only looks like a slightly warmer
version of the carbon curves.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

Thanks Daniel!

You seem to have found an immediate good use for the new 
densitometer....

David

Danial, what printer are these curves intended for?

Ian

-------------- Original message -------------- 
I've made new UT7 curves for Epson Enhanced Matte, Hahnem\ufffdle Photo Rag and
Condor Britewhite. All curves are available in cool, warm (carbon) and
sepia. 

http://download.petraflux.com/qtr_ut7_matte_profiles.zip

I'm going to redo the sepia curves at some point. I suspect I could make the
sepia tone much stronger. Right now it only looks like a slightly warmer
version of the carbon curves.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no





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> Daniel, what printer are these curves intended for?

Sorry, I should have mentioned that. They are for the 2100/2200 printers.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

> Daniel, what printer are these curves intended for?

Sorry, I should have mentioned that. They are for the 2100/2200 printers.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

> You seem to have found an immediate good use for the new 
> densitometer....

I managed to set up a serial connection from the densitometer to my computer
by plugging together three different cables and an adapter plug that I found
in the office. I don't see serial cables much anymore so I guess I was lucky
to find something that worked at all. 

This way I can just take all the measurements and copy them from
Hyperterminal into QTR instead of having to type everything manually. Makes
it much faster to linearize a lot of curves in a short time.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

Thanks, John.

Ian

-------------- Original message -------------- 

2100/2200
 
Best regards,
John Moody
 
-----Original Message-----
From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of photoian@...
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 4:05 PM
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] New UT7 curves available
 
Danial, what printer are these curves intended for?
 
Ian
 
-------------- Original message -------------- 
I've made new UT7 curves for Epson Enhanced Matte, Hahnem\ufffdle Photo Rag and
Condor Britewhite. All curves are available in cool, warm (carbon) and
sepia. 

http://download.petraflux.com/qtr_ut7_matte_profiles.zip

I'm going to redo the sepia curves at some point. I suspect I could make the
sepia tone much stronger. Right now it only looks like a slightly warmer
version of the carbon curves.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no


 



YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 

 Visit your group "QuadtoneRIP" on the web.
  
 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 QuadtoneRIP-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
  
 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Thanks, Daniel.

-------------- Original message -------------- 
> Daniel, what printer are these curves intended for?

Sorry, I should have mentioned that. They are for the 2100/2200 printers.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no





YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 

 Visit your group "QuadtoneRIP" on the web.
  
 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 QuadtoneRIP-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
  
 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Daniel

Now you have an 810, you might want to check out xkey:

http://www.xrite.com/support_doc.aspx?SoftwareID=205&part=116

The link above permits you to download the Xkey program from X-rite. It's
free and it permits you to pop density readings from your 810 (via the
serial port) directly into the QTRgui linearize tab (or into spreadsheet or
other windows program). There's also a Mac version

Tom Moore

> -----Original Message-----
> From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Daniel Staver
> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 4:38 PM
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: New UT7 curves available
> 
> > You seem to have found an immediate good use for the new

... snip

> 
> This way I can just take all the measurements and copy them from
> Hyperterminal into QTR instead of having to type everything manually.
> Makes
> it much faster to linearize a lot of curves in a short time.

Thanks Tom! 

This is exactly what I've been looking for. I'll test it when I get to work
tomorrow.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no  

> Now you have an 810, you might want to check out xkey:
> 
> http://www.xrite.com/support_doc.aspx?SoftwareID=205&part=116
> 
> The link above permits you to download the Xkey program from 
> X-rite. It's free and it permits you to pop density readings 
> from your 810 (via the serial port) directly into the QTRgui 
> linearize tab (or into spreadsheet or other windows program). 
> There's also a Mac version

Dnaiel, I am not able to find the Mac version, can you tell me where  
it is or under which directory?


Thanks
Hisun

On Aug 28, 2005, at 4:27 AM, Tom Moore wrote:

> Daniel
>
> Now you have an 810, you might want to check out xkey:
>
> http://www.xrite.com/support_doc.aspx?SoftwareID=205&part=116
>
> The link above permits you to download the Xkey program from X- 
> rite. It's
> free and it permits you to pop density readings from your 810 (via the
> serial port) directly into the QTRgui linearize tab (or into  
> spreadsheet or
> other windows program). There's also a Mac version
>
> Tom Moore
>
>
>

Hisun

The Mac version of x-key seems to have disappeared. Given the ancient
vintage of the PC version, the Mac version was likely for OS9. As an
alternative you could download the Mac version of ToolCrib from x-rite,
available through this link:

http://www.xrite.com/support_doc.aspx?Lang=en&SoftwareID=196

The so-called Generic device provides the x-key functions and supports the
older densitometers with serial interfaces such as the 810.

The 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Hisun Wong
> Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 11:38 PM
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Densitometer reading input - was: New UT7
> curves available
> 
> Dnaiel, I am not able to find the Mac version, can you tell me where
> it is or under which directory?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Hisun
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 28, 2005, at 4:27 AM, Tom Moore wrote:
> 
> > Daniel
> >
> > Now you have an 810, you might want to check out xkey:
> >
> > http://www.xrite.com/support_doc.aspx?SoftwareID=205&part=116
> >
> > The link above permits you to download the Xkey program from X-
> > rite. It's
> > free and it permits you to pop density readings from your 810 (via the
> > serial port) directly into the QTRgui linearize tab (or into
> > spreadsheet or
> > other windows program). There's also a Mac version
> >
> > Tom Moore
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Hisun Wong  wrote:
> Dnaiel, I am not able to find the Mac version, can you tell me where  
> it is or under which directory?

For Mac I have X-Key 2.0b. Reading the pdf it looks like it only runs in System 7 and 8. If you 
need it contact me and I'll email it to you. But it's old!

I tried both X-Key and ToolCrib today. ToolCrib also contains X-Key but that
version appears to lack the ability to transform carriage returns into tabs,
which makes it useless for entering data into QTRgui. It's almost as quick
to just capture the data into a text file and paste into QTRgui though.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no 

> The Mac version of x-key seems to have disappeared. Given the 
> ancient vintage of the PC version, the Mac version was likely 
> for OS9. As an alternative you could download the Mac version 
> of ToolCrib from x-rite, available through this link:
> 
> http://www.xrite.com/support_doc.aspx?Lang=en&SoftwareID=196
> 
> The so-called Generic device provides the x-key functions and 
> supports the older densitometers with serial interfaces such 
> as the 810.

Daniel

I have to admit, I have never actually used xkey to input directly into
QTRgui, so I was a little bit too speculative apparently. I always put the
density values into a spreadsheet. That way the spreadsheet can display the
density curve improvements as I modify the parameters. Once I'm happy with
the curve, I copy it to the linearize tab.

By the way, have you found any use for the RGB readings from your 810, or do
you use only the visual?

Tom Moore

> -----Original Message-----
> From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Daniel Staver
> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 3:57 PM
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [QuadtoneRIP] Densitometer reading input - was: New UT7
> curves available
> 
> I tried both X-Key and ToolCrib today. ToolCrib also contains X-Key but
> that
> version appears to lack the ability to transform carriage returns into
> tabs,
> which makes it useless for entering data into QTRgui. It's almost as quick
> to just capture the data into a text file and paste into QTRgui though.