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Maximum Usable Black vs. Dmax – What's the Big Deal?

Maximum Usable Black vs. Dmax – What's the Big Deal?

2009-11-23 by Terry

As I understand when printing out the Ink Separation Page in QTR, the Photo Black (PK) or Matte Black ink (MK) at 100% is the maximum black.  Yet visually, on most Luster/Pearl/Semi-glossy papers, the 55, 60, or 65% ink square is as black looking as the 100%.

For example, when I measure the 100% PK ink square on Harman Crystaljet Luster RC paper, printed with Epson inks on my R800 / R1800 with my densitometer I get 2.64.  The 60% black measures 2.13 yet visually looks as black as the 100%.  The 60% is typically chosen to create the QTR profile yet the maximum density achievable is never really used.  This general relationship is the same for all Luster/Pearl/Satin/Semi-gloss papers I've tested.

Yet for the inherent difference between Luster & Matte papers what is the "big deal" about high Dmax and can you really use the 100% in creating a profile?

Re: Maximum Usable Black vs. Dmax – What's the Big Deal?

2011-01-23 by Terry

Does anyone have a comment on this observation I've had in working with QTR?
Thanks.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Terry" <TerryGls@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> 
> As I understand when printing out the Ink Separation Page in QTR, the Photo Black (PK) or Matte Black ink (MK) at 100% is the maximum black.  Yet visually, on most Luster/Pearl/Semi-glossy papers, the 55, 60, or 65% ink square is as black looking as the 100%.
> 
> For example, when I measure the 100% PK ink square on Harman Crystaljet Luster RC paper, printed with Epson inks on my R800 / R1800 with my densitometer I get 2.64.  The 60% black measures 2.13 yet visually looks as black as the 100%.  The 60% is typically chosen to create the QTR profile yet the maximum density achievable is never really used.  This general relationship is the same for all Luster/Pearl/Satin/Semi-gloss papers I've tested.
> 
> Yet for the inherent difference between Luster & Matte papers what is the "big deal" about high Dmax and can you really use the 100% in creating a profile?
>

Re: Maximum Usable Black vs. Dmax – What's the Big Deal?

2011-01-24 by Roger Barrett

I would definitely go for the maximum density, as long as you are not on a long plateau. You may think that patches at densities of 2.6 and 2.1 look the same on the step wedge, but they would certainly look different in the shadow areas of a real print. I have just printed a low-key image on Harman Gloss Baryta and I can easily see detail in the deepest shadows - that's with a Dmax (on the print) of 2.5

It's not just the shadows that benefit in my opinion. The whole print has more "depth" with a high Dmax.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Terry" <TerryGls@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Does anyone have a comment on this observation I've had in working with QTR?
> Thanks.
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Terry" <TerryGls@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > As I understand when printing out the Ink Separation Page in QTR, the Photo Black (PK) or Matte Black ink (MK) at 100% is the maximum black.  Yet visually, on most Luster/Pearl/Semi-glossy papers, the 55, 60, or 65% ink square is as black looking as the 100%.
> > 
> > For example, when I measure the 100% PK ink square on Harman Crystaljet Luster RC paper, printed with Epson inks on my R800 / R1800 with my densitometer I get 2.64.  The 60% black measures 2.13 yet visually looks as black as the 100%.  The 60% is typically chosen to create the QTR profile yet the maximum density achievable is never really used.  This general relationship is the same for all Luster/Pearl/Satin/Semi-gloss papers I've tested.
> > 
> > Yet for the inherent difference between Luster & Matte papers what is the "big deal" about high Dmax and can you really use the 100% in creating a profile?
> >
>

Re: Maximum Usable Black vs. Dmax – What's the Big Deal?

2011-01-24 by tboleyyh

perhaps others disagree or I'm missing something, but in my opinion the highest density measured is the dmax of that particular ink/paper/driver/printer combo, and as long as densities progressed up to that point so they can be linearized, it's also the maximum usable black. I don't see any point in choking back performance. Sometimes that means no limit at all.
Hope that makes sense.
Tyler

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Terry" <TerryGls@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Does anyone have a comment on this observation I've had in working with QTR?
> Thanks.
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Terry" <TerryGls@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > As I understand when printing out the Ink Separation Page in QTR, the Photo Black (PK) or Matte Black ink (MK) at 100% is the maximum black.  Yet visually, on most Luster/Pearl/Semi-glossy papers, the 55, 60, or 65% ink square is as black looking as the 100%.
> > 
> > For example, when I measure the 100% PK ink square on Harman Crystaljet Luster RC paper, printed with Epson inks on my R800 / R1800 with my densitometer I get 2.64.  The 60% black measures 2.13 yet visually looks as black as the 100%.  The 60% is typically chosen to create the QTR profile yet the maximum density achievable is never really used.  This general relationship is the same for all Luster/Pearl/Satin/Semi-gloss papers I've tested.
> > 
> > Yet for the inherent difference between Luster & Matte papers what is the "big deal" about high Dmax and can you really use the 100% in creating a profile?
> >
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Maximum Usable Black vs. Dmax – What’s the Big Deal?

2011-01-24 by Paul Roark

, tboleyyh <tyler@...> wrote:

>
>
> ... I don't see any point in choking back performance. ...
>
The only times it would seem to make sense to me is if there was too much
bleed or the surface took on a bad reflective differential.

I became a real believer in getting the best dmax possible when I compared
good glossy brochures with my old matte paper gallery brochures in the
sunlight.  Indoors I think matte paper looks great, but at the gallery I'm
in people typically grab brochures and walk outside.  In direct sun, I don't
think there is such a thing as too deep a black.  The weak blacks turn to a
smokey gray.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com







> 
>


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