QTR-Quadtone RIP

Okay, I've been an on and off user of QTR for a while.  Now that I'm back for another round I find that there are several old things still hanging around.

-- The Calibration paper still refers to version 2.5
-- The User Guide still carries Version 2.2, 26April2005 date on it.
-- There's no 'inkseparation.psd' file but 'inkseparation.tif' file.


Now no offense but this is a bit ridiculous!  I shouldn't have to come here to this forum to find out stuff that should be posted on the website, like updates to an existing version.

I put my money down some time ago with the implied deal that the price included all future updates, too.  The least you can do is bring everything up to date at the same time as the software.

Thanks, Mike
New Orleans, LA

Go try StudioPrint. You get to spend $2500 dollars for the rip replacement dongles cost 120 dollars, you can't do any toner splits besides 1-1 (or physical mixing of ink), and major updates come once every two or three years, cost 500 bucks, and break past workflows and hardware compatibility. Also, the documentation doesn't exist for artists (aka buiding custom environments for thick rag-type paper) and the dithers over-ink at 2880dpi. And Ergosoft rarely if ever replies to forum posts (I should know as I'm the moderator of that forum.) They don't even let you call them for tech questions anymore!  One thing they do is iterative linearization though. :-)

$50 dollars and all future updates for a semi-open source software (QTR) that really works much better than many competing closed source solutions is really nothing to complain about. Also, there are multiple user guides out there and many of them are still valid even if they are from an older version. And .tifs are needed because .psds are not compatible with other imaging software.

The problem here is a bit of an over-expectation around service I think.

all the best,
Walker


On Jul 19, 2010, at 10:16 PM, mbrouphy wrote:

> Okay, I've been an on and off user of QTR for a while.  Now that I'm back for another round I find that there are several old things still hanging around.
> 
> -- The Calibration paper still refers to version 2.5
> -- The User Guide still carries Version 2.2, 26April2005 date on it.
> -- There's no 'inkseparation.psd' file but 'inkseparation.tif' file.
> 
> 
> Now no offense but this is a bit ridiculous!  I shouldn't have to come here to this forum to find out stuff that should be posted on the website, like updates to an existing version.
> 
> I put my money down some time ago with the implied deal that the price included all future updates, too.  The least you can do is bring everything up to date at the same time as the software.
> 
> Thanks, Mike
> New Orleans, LA
> 

Walker Blackwell
802.821.4451
www.walkerblackwell.com
aim: greendirtblues
wblackwell@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mbrouphy schreef:

> I put my money down some time ago with the implied deal that the price included all future updates, too.  The least you can do is bring everything up to date at the same time as the software.
> 
> Thanks, Mike
> New Orleans, LA
> 
> 

Quite early in QTR's existance I paid the 50$ dollars. I used QTR and I 
contributed comments, ideas etc to the forums for its improvement. For 
other reasons I do no longer use QTR but I never regret that 50$.and it 
is worth much more for almost every Epson user.  I wouldn't complain 
even if there was more not 100% updated.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

You completely miss the point!

I'm going through the calibration procedure to understand what's going on and questions come up about the process that butts up against my attempt to understand the process.

First, there is no 'inkseparation.psd' file anywhere in my install of QTR.  I ask why.  Did it not download? Is the file stored away someway somewhere else since no folder is given for this folder?

The steps for printing the calibration sheet out is no where close to being user friendly, after making the assumption that the file is 'inkseparation.tif' in the BIN folder.

And, when the process for setting up the K, LK, & LLK is studied and make sense, there's nothing that addresses the M/LM or C/LC pairings or the Y.  After all QTR isn't just for b/w printing, right?  If it was only for b/w printing there would be no need for using a color example. Right?

The bottom line is that when you're talking to the choir, you can make certain assumptions, also to your detriment, that there is a level of knowledge already in place.  This works fine if you never want no new customers.  

There are many either new and/or less experienced technically who use this process and the speciality inks that are supported.  We want to learn and contribute to the quest for making digital printing more than just hitting 'PRINT'.

So, rather than taking me to task, provide we 'newbies' to QTR with the following:

Place the appropriate 'inkseparation.psd' up on the FILE section or tell me where to download it from or tell me what file in the current version is the right one to use and where to find it.

If there's not going to be a new version of the calibration procedure, then I'll be glad to put one together for review.

Update the User Manual or get rid of it and just say 'You're on your own'. At least I'd know where I stood.

Mike


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Walker Blackwell <forums@...> wrote:

>
> Go try StudioPrint. You get to spend $2500 dollars for the rip replacement dongles cost 120 dollars, you can't do any toner splits besides 1-1 (or physical mixing of ink), and major updates come once every two or three years, cost 500 bucks, and break past workflows and hardware compatibility. Also, the documentation doesn't exist for artists (aka buiding custom environments for thick rag-type paper) and the dithers over-ink at 2880dpi. And Ergosoft rarely if ever replies to forum posts (I should know as I'm the moderator of that forum.) They don't even let you call them for tech questions anymore!  One thing they do is iterative linearization though. :-)
> 
> $50 dollars and all future updates for a semi-open source software (QTR) that really works much better than many competing closed source solutions is really nothing to complain about. Also, there are multiple user guides out there and many of them are still valid even if they are from an older version. And .tifs are needed because .psds are not compatible with other imaging software.
> 
> The problem here is a bit of an over-expectation around service I think.
> 
> all the best,
> Walker
> 
> 
> On Jul 19, 2010, at 10:16 PM, mbrouphy wrote:
> 
> > Okay, I've been an on and off user of QTR for a while.  Now that I'm back for another round I find that there are several old things still hanging around.
> > 
> > -- The Calibration paper still refers to version 2.5
> > -- The User Guide still carries Version 2.2, 26April2005 date on it.
> > -- There's no 'inkseparation.psd' file but 'inkseparation.tif' file.
> > 
> > 
> > Now no offense but this is a bit ridiculous!  I shouldn't have to come here to this forum to find out stuff that should be posted on the website, like updates to an existing version.
> > 
> > I put my money down some time ago with the implied deal that the price included all future updates, too.  The least you can do is bring everything up to date at the same time as the software.
> > 
> > Thanks, Mike
> > New Orleans, LA
> > 
> 
> Walker Blackwell
> 802.821.4451
> www.walkerblackwell.com
> aim: greendirtblues
> wblackwell@...
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Mike,

Sorry you feel that way.  I'm just one guy who likes B&W photography
and happens to know a bit
about software and figured Epson printers could make good B&W
printers.   I'm retired, I like to
travel, take pictures and make prints of them.   I really not in business.

On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 7:33 AM, mbrouphy <mbrouphy@...> wrote:
> You completely miss the point!
>
> I'm going through the calibration procedure to understand what's going on and questions come up about the process that butts up against my attempt to understand the process.
>
> First, there is no 'inkseparation.psd' file anywhere in my install of QTR.  I ask why.  Did it not download? Is the file stored away someway somewhere else since no folder is given for this folder?
>
> The steps for printing the calibration sheet out is no where close to being user friendly, after making the assumption that the file is 'inkseparation.tif' in the BIN folder.

Although you don't mention the OS you use I believe it's windows.  If
you use QTR at all you'd see the QTRgui
accept TIF files not PSD files so the .psd would be useless.  Not only
that but QTRgui finds the file for you
so you need not know where it is.

>
> And, when the process for setting up the K, LK, & LLK is studied and make sense, there's nothing that addresses the M/LM or C/LC pairings or the Y.  After all QTR isn't just for b/w printing, right?  If it was only for b/w printing there would be no need for using a color example. Right?

I'm not sure how it could be more emphasized the QTR is for B&W
printing period -- it says it just about everywhere.
Color inks are often used but only for toning your print.

>
> The bottom line is that when you're talking to the choir, you can make certain assumptions, also to your detriment, that there is a level of knowledge already in place.  This works fine if you never want no new customers.
>
> There are many either new and/or less experienced technically who use this process and the speciality inks that are supported.  We want to learn and contribute to the quest for making digital printing more than just hitting 'PRINT'.

Ironically, the Print command is by far the most useful command for
learning what its all about.  The biggest
mistake most people make is trying to do too much i.e. "I want to make
the best prints so I'm going to
start from scratch and learn everything and customize everything".

>
> So, rather than taking me to task, provide we 'newbies' to QTR with the following:
>
> Place the appropriate 'inkseparation.psd' up on the FILE section or tell me where to download it from or tell me what file in the current version is the right one to use and where to find it.
>
> If there's not going to be a new version of the calibration procedure, then I'll be glad to put one together for review.
>
> Update the User Manual or get rid of it and just say 'You're on your own'. At least I'd know where I stood.

Admittedly, other people's contributions of manuals, workflows,
customization have been wonderful additions.
They have often come up with ideas I hadn't ever planned on.  I can't
thank them enough for their help.

I've concentrated more on software updates over the years.  I've supported:
Mac OSX -- Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard and Snow Leopard, both 32 & 64 bit.
Windows  -- 2000, XP Pro, XP Home, Vista, Windows 7, both 32 & 64 bit.
Printers -- 860,1160,870,1270,890,1290,1400,2100,2200,R2400,R2880,3000,3800,3880,
4000,4800,4880,7000,7500,7600,7800,7880,9000,9500,9600,9800,9880,
R200,R220,R260,R280,R300,R320,R340,R380,R800,R1800,R1900
Plus lots of variations on inksets.

There are so many combinations its mind boggling.

A good number of people have sent me $50 over the years but I'm sure
even more haven't.
That's OK -- I'm not going to get bent out of shape, like I said it's
not really a business.

> > I put my money down some time ago with the implied deal that the price included all future updates, too.  The least you can do is bring everything up to date at the same time as the software.

I almost never check -- maybe you paid under a different name or email
-- but I don't
see your name in my records.  Of course my "license" specifically says:
"If it meets your needs and you want to use it for your regular workflow,
 please come back and pay a shareware fee of fifty dollars $50".
In other words if it doesn't meet your needs don't pay.

>
> Mike
>

Regards,
Roy

> 
> Place the appropriate 'inkseparation.psd' up on the FILE section or tell me where to download it from or tell me what file in the current version is the right one to use and where to find it.
> 
QuadToneRIP/Eye-One/inksep.psd

QuadToneRIP/CurveDesign/Images/inkseparation.psd 
 
   also  inseparation.tif, inseparation6.tif, and inseparation8.tif  in the same folder.

Are any of those what you need?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yep! They are there.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Myron Gochnauer <goch@...> wrote:

>
> > 
> > Place the appropriate 'inkseparation.psd' up on the FILE section or tell me where to download it from or tell me what file in the current version is the right one to use and where to find it.
> > 
> QuadToneRIP/Eye-One/inksep.psd
> 
> QuadToneRIP/CurveDesign/Images/inkseparation.psd 
>  
>    also  inseparation.tif, inseparation6.tif, and inseparation8.tif  in the same folder.
> 
> Are any of those what you need?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

What I would suggest for anyone starting out who wants to build custom QTR environments for their printers/paper is to start with a dummy environment for that particular media type. You can find many in the "Profiles" folder found in the QTR Application folder. You can also find many on this forum in the Files section. There are even more out there in repositories that the users on this forum have supplied. Basically all of the inkseparation issues for every major paper and supported Epson print-head type have already been figured out. And if they haven't you can take a similar QTR environment (profile/curve) and tweak it manually just a bit to get the ink densities right.

After this you can simply linearize (make all the ink densities for each tone print correctly) the quad curve (if you have a spectrophotometer like the i1) and then build an ICC profile for it to further "tune" it. You really don't have to go through the whole inkseperation thingy unless you're printing down onto some totally foreign material (say Kozo paper or Rice paper, etc.)

That is the easy and fast method and it has certainly worked for me. I've only had to go from scratch maybe 2 times. I didn't mean to put you down somehow vis a vis experience, etc. I think we all welcome newcomers here. It's probably worth it to ask questions politely first, however, instead of making statements. You'll probably learn what you want to know faster that way Mike.

All the best,
Walker

QTR is the most affordable, most adaptable, most amazing piece of imaging software ever created in a shareware situation. If you don't like it then buy Studio Print for about 3 grand and see what the support for black and white ends up being with that.  With most Epson printers Roy Harrington has already done 99% of the work for you with his great curve sets an didn't charge anyone a penny for all that work. If that isn't good enough for ya then don't use it. Man what a lazy spoiled culture we live in.

john

Amen!!

I agree totally.

Tina

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 6:47 PM, john <deanwork2003@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> QTR is the most affordable, most adaptable, most amazing piece of imaging
> software ever created in a shareware situation. If you don't like it then
> buy Studio Print for about 3 grand and see what the support for black and
> white ends up being with that. With most Epson printers Roy Harrington has
> already done 99% of the work for you with his great curve sets an didn't
> charge anyone a penny for all that work. If that isn't good enough for ya
> then don't use it. Man what a lazy spoiled culture we live in.
>
> john
>
>
> 
>



-- 
Tina Manley, ASMP
www.tinamanley.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I will happily second this motion....Roy rocks!!! Amazing piece of software...but for the price it requires some effort.  

A little scold at all the leeches...please pay Roy his modest license fee.

Phil


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Tina Manley <images@...> wrote:

>
> Amen!!
> 
> I agree totally.
> 
> Tina
> 
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 6:47 PM, john <deanwork2003@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >
> > QTR is the most affordable, most adaptable, most amazing piece of imaging
> > software ever created in a shareware situation. If you don't like it then
> > buy Studio Print for about 3 grand and see what the support for black and
> > white ends up being with that. With most Epson printers Roy Harrington has
> > already done 99% of the work for you with his great curve sets an didn't
> > charge anyone a penny for all that work. If that isn't good enough for ya
> > then don't use it. Man what a lazy spoiled culture we live in.
> >
> > john
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tina Manley, ASMP
> www.tinamanley.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I certainly agree.  I have been experimenting with QTR and the results 
so far are as good or better than IP.  Now if only I have the patience 
and ability to figure out how to make curves and tweak it.  This thread 
did remind me to cough up my $50.  What a bargain.

Ken Carney
www.kencarney.com


On 7/22/2010 5:47 PM, john wrote:
>
>
> QTR is the most affordable, most adaptable, most amazing piece of 
> imaging software ever created in a shareware situation. If you don't 
> like it then buy Studio Print for about 3 grand and see what the 
> support for black and white ends up being with that. With most Epson 
> printers Roy Harrington has already done 99% of the work for you with 
> his great curve sets an didn't charge anyone a penny for all that 
> work. If that isn't good enough for ya then don't use it. Man what a 
> lazy spoiled culture we live in.
>
> john
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]