QTR-Quadtone RIP

Paul Roark's Carbon-6 / Eboni-6 inks appear to have only one downside:  relatively fast settling-rate for the Eboni particles.

As Paul points out in http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf, note 4, this is an issue only for large-format printers, in which the cartridges themselves do not move with the head.  Paul solves the problem by removing and agitating the cartridges before each printing session.

I am not sure I want to dedicate my 4880 to B&W printing only, but I decide in favour of it I would prefer not to uncouple and recouple cartridges any more that is necessary.  It may never cause a problem, but given my history, every moving part invites user error, misadventure and ink-all-over-my-new-shirt.

Having recently disassembled an empty 4880 cartridge to see how it worked, the following solution to the agitation problem occurred to me:

The ink in 4880 cartridges is actually contained in foil (Mylar?) pouches that collapse as the ink is used.  The ridge plastic shell merely provides structure for the pouch, valve and chip. A good deal of the plastic shell could be removed (cut away) without threatening the function of the cartridge in any way. In particular, the outermost few inches of the cartridge (say, 3 inches of what sticks out of the printer) could mostly be cut away, leaving the ink pouch available to be "massaged" by gentle finger pressure. Except when the pouch is nearly full, this might provide sufficient agitation of the contents. (Pouches can be refilled through the valve.)

If this worked, the cartridges would need to be removed and reinstalled only when they need to be refilled and reset.

I cannot say this *will* work, since I have not quite finished off a complete set of Epson 220ml cartridges, and so I have not been in a position to try it.

This not an option, of course, for the third-party refillable cartridges, since they do not use ink pouches.  (In my experience they are also more likely to experience leaky valves, too.)

Another possibility is to use cartridge "shells" to provide structure for the chip and value, and then attach tubing (like "CIS" systems in smaller printers) going to ink bottles. The bottles could be agitated without the need for removing anything from the printer, and refilled as needed.   As far as I know, no one offers a bottle-based Continuous Inking System for the larger printers, since funnel-filling cartridges seems to make it unnecessary for most inks.  But I can see no reason why it is not a possibility. Even little letter sized printers seem to have enough "suck" to draw ink through 2-foot tubes, so the big guys should manage it.

Before launching into any of these options, I would appreciate comments and suggestions from those of you with more experience.

Thanks.
Myron

MyronG <goch@...> wrote:

>
>
> Paul Roark's Carbon-6 / Eboni-6 inks appear to have only one downside:
> relatively fast settling-rate for the Eboni particles.
>
> As Paul points out in http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf,note 4, this is an issue only for large-format printers, in which the
> cartridges themselves do not move with the head. Paul solves the problem by
> removing and agitating the cartridges before each printing session.
> ...
>

It would be great to figure out a way to solve the settlement issue.  I
might note that the blended carbon + color inksets can suffer from
significant separation also.  See page 4 of
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4K+.pdf

When I got my 7800 I opened the pressurized cart to see how it was made.  I
was disappointed that Epson had not taken the opportunity to make the
pressurization system also an agitation system.  If they'd put a balloon in
just part of the cart -- like at the center of the bottom -- so that it
could be inflated and deflated a number of times in a warm-up cycle, I think
they could have had their positive pressure as well as agitation, and their
pigs sink also, just not as fast.

Let us know if you come up with a good system.  In the meantime, agitating
the carts is not that burdensome.  So far the seals hare holding fine.

On the other hand, I understand the hassle very well.  I note that the HP PK
in my generic base settles less than the OEM HP Grey ink.  It also does not
separate, color-wise nearly as much as the other B&W blends I've tested.
 The reason is simple, the Epson bases can be more viscous.  At any rate,
the HP PK + Glop is now in the 1100 and 1400, and will be in the 7800 if
these tests continue to look good.  For neutral B&W with less fade
resistance, but also with a number of significant advantages, I have high
hopes for this HP-Glop blend and a much more hassle-free and flexible
approach for those who do not need 100% carbon.  See
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1100-HpGO.pdf

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>This not an option, of course, for the third-party refillable cartridges,
since they do not use ink pouches. (In my experience they are also more
likely to experience leaky valves, too.)

 

Myron,

 

Actually there are empty carts with Mylar pouches for the 4880, from MIS
that work very well, including the 7800/7880 carts which are pressurized.
They're $18 each and are filled/refilled with the 60mm syringes and
tip-adaptor. I've used them in my 4880 and 7800s for a long time without any
significant issues (other than a few chip reading blips). The spring-valves
are pretty robust and I've pulled and switched some of mine at least 20-30
times. I prefer these type of carts over funnel fills because the bags don't
expose the ink to any air. I don't have any comparative life data, but
keeping the inks from an oxidizing/evaporative environment can only help.
Some of the inks have been in the printer with pouch carts for over a year
and are as good as new. I really wouldn't worry too much about pulling the
carts for agitation occasionally (though the peep-hole for agitating the bag
is an interesting idea). 

 

Best,

 

Tom



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My 4880 is on the Epson printer stand on wheels. The whole thing sways back
& forth a bit while printing and I give it a few more vigorous shakes now
and then. I don't know if that's enough yet; I guess time will tell.

On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Tom Mallonee <tmallonee@...> wrote:

>
>
> >>This not an option, of course, for the third-party refillable cartridges,
> since they do not use ink pouches. (In my experience they are also more
> likely to experience leaky valves, too.)
>
> Myron,
>
> Actually there are empty carts with Mylar pouches for the 4880, from MIS
> that work very well, including the 7800/7880 carts which are pressurized.
> They're $18 each and are filled/refilled with the 60mm syringes and
> tip-adaptor. I've used them in my 4880 and 7800s for a long time without
> any
> significant issues (other than a few chip reading blips). The spring-valves
> are pretty robust and I've pulled and switched some of mine at least 20-30
> times. I prefer these type of carts over funnel fills because the bags
> don't
> expose the ink to any air. I don't have any comparative life data, but
> keeping the inks from an oxidizing/evaporative environment can only help.
> Some of the inks have been in the printer with pouch carts for over a year
> and are as good as new. I really wouldn't worry too much about pulling the
> carts for agitation occasionally (though the peep-hole for agitating the
> bag
> is an interesting idea).
>
> Best,
>
>
> Tom
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> On the other hand, I understand the hassle very well.  I note that the HP PK
> in my generic base settles less than the OEM HP Grey ink.  It also does not
> separate, color-wise nearly as much as the other B&W blends I've tested.
>   The reason is simple, the Epson bases can be more viscous.  At any rate,
> the HP PK + Glop is now in the 1100 and 1400, and will be in the 7800 if
> these tests continue to look good.  For neutral B&W with less fade
> resistance, but also with a number of significant advantages, I have high
> hopes for this HP-Glop blend and a much more hassle-free and flexible
> approach for those who do not need 100% carbon.  See
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1100-HpGO.pdf
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

There is a membrane pump at the underside of HP carts which agitates the 
ink when in use so there are more factors that keep the ink in condition 
on HP printers. In general more HP printers have the carts separated 
from the head carriage where Epson models have that only from the 3800 
upwards.  Say an internal CIS. That also makes it easier to change ink 
feeding to even larger carts if the pumping is kept in the lines like I 
have done with an Officejet K5400. On the Z models I still shake the 
carts from time to time to be sure.

Paul, I have located some sources for a HP/Canon glop to dilute the HP 
Vivera PK for thermal head use. With Bowhaus TBW it should be possible 
to use them on larger Canons.

Epson B500DN, B510DN, B300 have that internal CIS also, the B500DN price 
is dropped right now here, it will be replaced with the 510. If you want 
a pro quality, large cart, duplex included, network enabled,  quad 
printer then you have to act fast I guess.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

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