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QTR mini tutorial on curves - using a Mac

QTR mini tutorial on curves - using a Mac

2005-09-14 by Josh Hackney

I have been following Carl's document on creating my own curves that  
I found in the files section of this forum.  I am using a Mac with  
CS2.  I started by copying the EEM profile.  I have followed his  
instructions very carefully, but I keep getting the same problems.   
First, the 100% square for each ink other than K is empty - white.   
Second, when I print the ink separation page the second time with the  
default ink limit set to my selection from the first printing, the  
darkest patches fall in the 55-80 range, and then start to get  
lighter for 85-95, and then white for 100.  Attached is a scan of my  
printouts.  The first printing of the ink pattern page is up-side  
down.  The second printing is right-side-up.

Any ideas what I am doing wrong?

I'm able to achieve very good prints with the standard curve, so my  
goal with this exercise is to learn the guts of QTR, and to  
understand the process of creating my own curves.

Thanks for your help.

Best regards,

Josh

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QTR mini tutorial on curves - using a Mac

2005-09-14 by Eric Ashworth

Hi Josh,

Looks like you're not creating a calibration curve. I did the same  
thing for the first couple days, when I started. In the descriptor  
file make sure to set the variable/value CALIBRATION=NO to  
CALIBRATION=YES. That should take care of it and the script should  
create your curve with -calib attached to the curve name. Once you're  
ready to create the working profile, just set the value back to no.  
If you have more questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Regards,

Eric
www.ericashworth.net
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sep 14, 2005, at 2:05 PM, Josh Hackney wrote:

>
> I have been following Carl's document on creating my own curves that
> I found in the files section of this forum.  I am using a Mac with
> CS2.  I started by copying the EEM profile.  I have followed his
> instructions very carefully, but I keep getting the same problems.
> First, the 100% square for each ink other than K is empty - white.
> Second, when I print the ink separation page the second time with the
> default ink limit set to my selection from the first printing, the
> darkest patches fall in the 55-80 range, and then start to get
> lighter for 85-95, and then white for 100.  Attached is a scan of my
> printouts.  The first printing of the ink pattern page is up-side
> down.  The second printing is right-side-up.
>
> Any ideas what I am doing wrong?

Re: QTR mini tutorial on curves - using a Mac

2005-09-15 by joshhackney

Hi Eric,

I am in fact setting CALIBRATION=YES in the descriptor file.  When I drop that file on the 
Drop-Quad-Profile.app it creates a curve in CurveDropBox with no errors, but it does not 
add "-calib" to the file name.  Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks.

Josh


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Eric Ashworth <brigsby707@c...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hi Josh,
> 
> Looks like you're not creating a calibration curve. I did the same  
> thing for the first couple days, when I started. In the descriptor  
> file make sure to set the variable/value CALIBRATION=NO to  
> CALIBRATION=YES. That should take care of it and the script should  
> create your curve with -calib attached to the curve name. Once you're  
> ready to create the working profile, just set the value back to no.  
> If you have more questions, don't hesitate to ask.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Eric
> www.ericashworth.net
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 14, 2005, at 2:05 PM, Josh Hackney wrote:
> 
> >
> > I have been following Carl's document on creating my own curves that
> > I found in the files section of this forum.  I am using a Mac with
> > CS2.  I started by copying the EEM profile.  I have followed his
> > instructions very carefully, but I keep getting the same problems.
> > First, the 100% square for each ink other than K is empty - white.
> > Second, when I print the ink separation page the second time with the
> > default ink limit set to my selection from the first printing, the
> > darkest patches fall in the 55-80 range, and then start to get
> > lighter for 85-95, and then white for 100.  Attached is a scan of my
> > printouts.  The first printing of the ink pattern page is up-side
> > down.  The second printing is right-side-up.
> >
> > Any ideas what I am doing wrong?

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: QTR mini tutorial on curves - using a Mac

2005-09-15 by Eric Ashworth

Hi Josh,

Sorry to assume you hadn't.  I don't think you're doing anything  
wrong. I forgot that I had the same thing occur when I was using the  
beta version at first (exact same problem). I had meant to mention it  
on the forum and see if anyone else had experienced the same bug, but  
managed to forget to.

Rather than producing a calibration file, when you drop the file, the  
script is producing a final curve, resulting in your ink separation  
print showing how the inks are actually used by that curve. When I  
had that problem, I uninstalled the beta version, and installed the  
stable release. That did the trick, and I was able to produce  
calibration files. But, when I wanted to produce some new curves with  
the COPY_CURVE variable, I tried reinstalling the beta and now it's  
working. Don't know why? Anyway, regardless of the version you're  
using, you might want to back up your descriptor files and any  
modified curves and remove, then reinstall QTR.

That might take care of it. If not, maybe you could paste the code  
from the descriptor file you're working on into an email so I could  
look it over. However, if you're following Carl's instructions, I'm  
pretty sure there's no problem on your part. And, if it turns out  
that that is the case, I'd contact Roy as it would then most likely  
be an issue with the software.

Regards,

Eric,
www.ericashworth.net
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sep 14, 2005, at 8:02 PM, joshhackney wrote:

>
> Hi Eric,
>
> I am in fact setting CALIBRATION=YES in the descriptor file.  When  
> I drop that file on the
> Drop-Quad-Profile.app it creates a curve in CurveDropBox with no  
> errors, but it does not
> add "-calib" to the file name.  Am I doing something wrong?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Josh

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: QTR mini tutorial on curves - using a Mac

2005-09-15 by Carl Schofield

Calibration files are no longer used with the latest version of QTR.   
When you print the inkseparation.psd file just set the QTR driver to  
calibration mode, do not select any curves, and set the blender to  
100/0 to print the first calibration target.  After you determine the  
appropriate ink limit from this target, make the next calibration  
print with the blend slider set to this new ink limit value.

Carl
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sep 14, 2005, at 11:02 PM, joshhackney wrote:

>
> Hi Eric,
>
> I am in fact setting CALIBRATION=YES in the descriptor file.  When  
> I drop that file on the
> Drop-Quad-Profile.app it creates a curve in CurveDropBox with no  
> errors, but it does not
> add "-calib" to the file name.  Am I doing something wrong?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Josh
>
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Eric Ashworth <brigsby707@c...>  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Josh,
>>
>> Looks like you're not creating a calibration curve. I did the same
>> thing for the first couple days, when I started. In the descriptor
>> file make sure to set the variable/value CALIBRATION=NO to
>> CALIBRATION=YES. That should take care of it and the script should
>> create your curve with -calib attached to the curve name. Once you're
>> ready to create the working profile, just set the value back to no.
>> If you have more questions, don't hesitate to ask.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Eric
>> www.ericashworth.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 14, 2005, at 2:05 PM, Josh Hackney wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I have been following Carl's document on creating my own curves that
>>> I found in the files section of this forum.  I am using a Mac with
>>> CS2.  I started by copying the EEM profile.  I have followed his
>>> instructions very carefully, but I keep getting the same problems.
>>> First, the 100% square for each ink other than K is empty - white.
>>> Second, when I print the ink separation page the second time with  
>>> the
>>> default ink limit set to my selection from the first printing, the
>>> darkest patches fall in the 55-80 range, and then start to get
>>> lighter for 85-95, and then white for 100.  Attached is a scan of my
>>> printouts.  The first printing of the ink pattern page is up-side
>>> down.  The second printing is right-side-up.
>>>
>>> Any ideas what I am doing wrong?
>>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: QTR mini tutorial on curves - using a Mac

2005-09-15 by James Haney

I tried that a couple of weeks ago and got results very similiar to 
what Josh is experiencing.
I found that after creating the calib file I had to restart photoshop 
for the printing system to include the newly generated file in the 
list.

James
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sep 15, 2005, at 7:10 AM, Carl Schofield wrote:

> Calibration files are no longer used with the latest version of QTR.  
>  When you print the inkseparation.psd file just set the QTR driver to 
>  calibration mode, do not select any curves, and set the blender to 
>  100/0 to print the first calibration target.  After you determine the 
>  appropriate ink limit from this target, make the next calibration 
>  print with the blend slider set to this new ink limit value.
>
>  Carl
>  On Sep 14, 2005, at 11:02 PM, joshhackney wrote:
>
>  >
>  > Hi Eric,
>  >
>  > I am in fact setting CALIBRATION=YES in the descriptor file.  When 
>  > I drop that file on the
>  > Drop-Quad-Profile.app it creates a curve in CurveDropBox with no 
>  > errors, but it does not
>  > add "-calib" to the file name.  Am I doing something wrong?
>  >
>  > Thanks.
>  >
>  > Josh
>  >
>  >
>  > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Eric Ashworth <brigsby707@c...> 
>  > wrote:
>  >
>  >> Hi Josh,
>  >>
>  >> Looks like you're not creating a calibration curve. I did the same
>  >> thing for the first couple days, when I started. In the descriptor
>  >> file make sure to set the variable/value CALIBRATION=NO to
>  >> CALIBRATION=YES. That should take care of it and the script should
>  >> create your curve with -calib attached to the curve name. Once 
> you're
>  >> ready to create the working profile, just set the value back to no.
>  >> If you have more questions, don't hesitate to ask.
>  >>
>  >> Regards,
>  >>
>  >> Eric
>  >> www.ericashworth.net
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> On Sep 14, 2005, at 2:05 PM, Josh Hackney wrote:
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>>
>  >>> I have been following Carl's document on creating my own curves 
> that
>  >>> I found in the files section of this forum.  I am using a Mac with
>  >>> CS2.  I started by copying the EEM profile.  I have followed his
>  >>> instructions very carefully, but I keep getting the same problems.
>  >>> First, the 100% square for each ink other than K is empty - white.
>  >>> Second, when I print the ink separation page the second time with 
>  >>> the
>  >>> default ink limit set to my selection from the first printing, the
>  >>> darkest patches fall in the 55-80 range, and then start to get
>  >>> lighter for 85-95, and then white for 100.  Attached is a scan of 
> my
>  >>> printouts.  The first printing of the ink pattern page is up-side
>  >>> down.  The second printing is right-side-up.
>  >>>
>  >>> Any ideas what I am doing wrong?
>  >>>
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
>  > ~-->
>  > Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network for 
>  > Good!
>  > http://us.click.yahoo.com/FXrMlA/dnQLAA/Zx0JAA/ucIolB/TM
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>  > ~->
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Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: QTR mini tutorial on curves - using a Mac

2005-09-15 by Carl Schofield

James,

If you are using QTR 2.3 you should not be using calib files as I noted in the previous post.

Carl

On Sep 15, 2005, at 12:29 PM, James Haney wrote:

I tried that a couple of weeks ago and got results very similiar to what Josh is experiencing.
I found that after creating the calib file I had to restart photoshop for the printing system to include the newly generated file in the list.

James

On Sep 15, 2005, at 7:10 AM, Carl Schofield wrote:


Calibration files are no longer used with the latest version of QTR.
When you print the inkseparation.psd file just set the QTR driver to
calibration mode, do not select any curves, and set the blender to
100/0 to print the first calibration target. After you determine the
appropriate ink limit from this target, make the next calibration
print with the blend slider set to this new ink limit value.

Carl
On Sep 14, 2005, at 11:02 PM, joshhackney wrote:

>
> Hi Eric,
>
> I am in fact setting CALIBRATION=YES in the descriptor file. When
> I drop that file on the
> Drop-Quad-Profile.app it creates a curve in CurveDropBox with no
> errors, but it does not
> add "-calib" to the file name. Am I doing something wrong?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Josh
>
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Eric Ashworth
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Josh,
>>
>> Looks like you're not creating a calibration curve. I did the same
>> thing for the first couple days, when I started. In the descriptor
>> file make sure to set the variable/value CALIBRATION=NO to
>> CALIBRATION=YES. That should take care of it and the script should
>> create your curve with -calib attached to the curve name. Once you're
>> ready to create the working profile, just set the value back to no.
>> If you have more questions, don't hesitate to ask.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 14, 2005, at 2:05 PM, Josh Hackney wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I have been following Carl's document on creating my own curves that
>>> I found in the files section of this forum. I am using a Mac with
>>> CS2. I started by copying the EEM profile. I have followed his
>>> instructions very carefully, but I keep getting the same problems.
>>> First, the 100% square for each ink other than K is empty - white.
>>> Second, when I print the ink separation page the second time with
>>> the
>>> default ink limit set to my selection from the first printing, the
>>> darkest patches fall in the 55-80 range, and then start to get
>>> lighter for 85-95, and then white for 100. Attached is a scan of my
>>> printouts. The first printing of the ink pattern page is up-side
>>> down. The second printing is right-side-up.
>>>
>>> Any ideas what I am doing wrong?
>>>

Re: QTR mini tutorial on curves - using a Mac

2005-09-15 by joshhackney

Thanks Eric and Carl.

I'm using UC and Legion photo matte paper.  I started with the included EMM profile.

My questions are:

1.  Do you think 1.4 is a resonble Dmax for this combination?
2.  Does 18% seam like a resonable ink limit for LK?
3.  When printing my test image with my curve vs. the curve included with QTR for 
EEM_warm, my profile lack's contrast relative to the EEM_warm profile.  Any idea why?

The following is some background of what I have done, if you think that you want to check 
my work.  

Carl's comments helped, and I was able to print the ink separation.  This yielded a ink limit 
of 70.  Reprinted, moving the blend slider to 70-30 as suggested by Carl.  I don't have a 
densitometer, so I'm using my scanner with PS reading Lab values for the time being.  The 
interpolated LK ink limit was 18% - does that seem correct?  Next I printed the 21 step 
wedge using the profile I am building (continuing to follow Carl's instructions very 
carefully).

The resulting densities were as follows (Lab values were from PS, and I calculated density 
with John Moody's Excel formula)

	Lab	Density
0%	100	0
5%	93	0.081094474
10%	84	0.193373968
15%	77	0.287925122
20%	72	0.359925951
25%	65	0.467918911
30%	60	0.550933191
35%	57	0.603405387
40%	53	0.676826695
45%	50	0.734742161
50%	47	0.795352319
55%	44	0.858920217
60%	39	0.972285899
65%	36	1.045363937
70%	33	1.122785728
75%	31	1.177080394
80%	30	1.205100473
85%	28	1.263015938
90%	27	1.292968601
95%	26	1.323626096
100%	25	1.355022398

I recieved the error about the values are not increasing, so I moved Grey_lighlights to 10 
(from the default 6), and I moved Grey_shadows to 3 (also from the default of 6).

This resulted in the following

	LAB	Density
0%	99	0.011280447
5%	94	0.069195912
10%	86	0.167573452
15%	79	0.260203152
20%	73	0.345203948
25%	66	0.451932411
30%	61	0.533901792
35%	56	0.621376478
40%	52	0.69584723
45%	49	0.754633898
50%	46	0.816198899
55%	41	0.925749401
60%	37	1.020546359
65%	34	1.096463955
70%	31	1.177080394
75%	30	1.205100473
80%	29	1.233736426
85%	28	1.263015938
90%	26	1.323626096
95%	24	1.387193994
100%	23	1.420180147

I then added this information to the curve definition file, created the curve, and printed the 
21 step with the linearization.  I scanned that, and then plotted the linearized results too.  

I have plotted everything in Tom Moore's speadsheet, and uploaded it in the files section 
called "joshs first curve", if you want to see the plots.

Thanks!

Josh


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield <scho@m...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Calibration files are no longer used with the latest version of QTR.   
> When you print the inkseparation.psd file just set the QTR driver to  
> calibration mode, do not select any curves, and set the blender to  
> 100/0 to print the first calibration target.  After you determine the  
> appropriate ink limit from this target, make the next calibration  
> print with the blend slider set to this new ink limit value.
> 
> Carl
> On Sep 14, 2005, at 11:02 PM, joshhackney wrote:

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.