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Question for Roy

Question for Roy

2005-09-16 by John Moody

Roy,
Some of the generated gray curves appear to be pieced together from three
functions, leading to \ufffdsharp turns\ufffd in the ink curve.
Is it possible to smooth that out somehow in a future release?

I\ufffdm using text files for the toner curves on a modified UT7 inkset, and I
see a definite advantage to not having discontinuities in the curve.  If the
gray partitioned inks had smooth curves, I believe I would get a smoother
gray ramp, which would allow the generate-ICC to work even better.

Best regards,
John Moody

Re: Question for Roy

2005-09-17 by Roy Harrington

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "John Moody" <moodymz3@y...> wrote:
> Roy,
> Some of the generated gray curves appear to be pieced together from three
> functions, leading to "sharp turns" in the ink curve.
> Is it possible to smooth that out somehow in a future release?
> 
> I'm using text files for the toner curves on a modified UT7 inkset, and I
> see a definite advantage to not having discontinuities in the curve.  If the
> gray partitioned inks had smooth curves, I believe I would get a smoother
> gray ramp, which would allow the generate-ICC to work even better.
> 
> Best regards,
> John Moody

John,

The curves aren't just pieced together curves.  Although the curves may change
slope they are all at least continuous.  I don't have any plans for changing
the way it is -- mainly because that would involve redoing all existing profiles.
But I'm curious what you found smoother in your curves.  I'm not sure how
you made them.

Roy

Question for Roy

2016-05-06 by robert49brake@...

Any chance you might port QTR for the Workforce and/or ET printers? The Echo Tank printers have been available in Europe for some time, including now an A3 printer (ET 1400). A few models are also available in the US now and I'm sure they'll be readily available in Asia, ME, etc. They are also available as 100-240VAC 50/60hz so the same models will be used in Europe and the US. Prices are comparable on both sides of the Atlantic. To my brief inspection they all seem to be using the same variable droplet 3 picolitre print engine. A 4 ink version of Paul R.'s Eboni could work as well as other inksets. The echo tanks could relieve us from a lot of aftermarket cart headaches.


Thanks for listening.

Re: Question for Roy

2016-05-06 by robert49brake@...

Sorry don't know where those 'h's came from in eco tank:)

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Question for Roy

2016-05-06 by Paul Roark

I'm a big fan of the WorkForce 1100 that I have. Quads are simpler to maintain/reload, and I do a lot of text printing (mostly for my wife). It's so fast with text that I had to put a tape at the end of the output tray to stop paper from being shot onto the floor. (They increased the speed of ejection to match the printing speed. The printer is slow with non-text, image printing.) It's made for office/text work, but can do as good an image as any quad printer.

The EcoTank line could be important. Note that Epson sells one model that has a carbon black in the K position. That black appears to dilute well with the generic dilution base. It's a little warmer than Eboni, but it is very cheap and internationally available. As a practical matter, it looks like Epson is now a supplier of that critical MK input to B&W printing; in fact, they may well be the baseline against which all others must be compared. I'll be doing further testing with this ink when time permits.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 6:52 AM, robert49brake@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Any chance you might port QTR for the Workforce and/or ET printers? The Echo Tank printers have been available in Europe for some time, including now an A3 printer (ET 1400). A few models are also available in the US now and I'm sure they'll be readily available in Asia, ME, etc. They are also available as 100-240VAC 50/60hz so the same models will be used in Europe and the US. Prices are comparable on both sides of the Atlantic. To my brief inspection they all seem to be using the same variable droplet 3 picolitre print engine. A 4 ink version of Paul R.'s Eboni could work as well as other inksets. The echo tanks could relieve us from a lot of aftermarket cart headaches.


Thanks for listening.


Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Question for Roy

2016-05-06 by Paul Roark

The UK's EcoTank 14000 is shown here:
https://www.epson.co.uk/products/printers/inkjet-printers/consumer/ecotank-et-14000 .

It looks just like my old WorkForce 1100, aside from the place for the built-in CIS on the side of the printer. Most notably is that it's a lot more expensive. The old WF 1100 was, in its day, the cheapest 13 inch wide printer (about $150, I believe). Now the 1430 probably holds that position.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com



Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:
I'm a big fan of the WorkForce 1100 that I have. Quads are simpler to maintain/reload, and I do a lot of text printing (mostly for my wife). It's so fast with text that I had to put a tape at the end of the output tray to stop paper from being shot onto the floor. (They increased the speed of ejection to match the printing speed. The printer is slow with non-text, image printing.) It's made for office/text work, but can do as good an image as any quad printer.

The EcoTank line could be important. Note that Epson sells one model that has a carbon black in the K position. That black appears to dilute well with the generic dilution base. It's a little warmer than Eboni, but it is very cheap and internationally available. As a practical matter, it looks like Epson is now a supplier of that critical MK input to B&W printing; in fact, they may well be the baseline against which all others must be compared. I'll be doing further testing with this ink when time permits.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com



On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 6:52 AM, robert49brake@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Any chance you might port QTR for the Workforce and/or ET printers? The Echo Tank printers have been available in Europe for some time, including now an A3 printer (ET 1400). A few models are also available in the US now and I'm sure they'll be readily available in Asia, ME, etc. They are also available as 100-240VAC 50/60hz so the same models will be used in Europe and the US. Prices are comparable on both sides of the Atlantic. To my brief inspection they all seem to be using the same variable droplet 3 picolitre print engine. A 4 ink version of Paul R.'s Eboni could work as well as other inksets. The echo tanks could relieve us from a lot of aftermarket cart headaches.


Thanks for listening.



Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Question for Roy

2016-05-06 by Roy Harrington

At one time I looked into the 1100 printer. Unfortunately I wasn't successful at
the time -- not really sure why but might be related to 2 black carts as I remember.

Roy
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 12:25 PM, Paul Roark roark.paul@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@...m> wrote:


The UK's EcoTank 14000 is shown here:
https://www.epson.co.uk/products/printers/inkjet-printers/consumer/ecotank-et-14000 .

It looks just like my old WorkForce 1100, aside from the place for the built-in CIS on the side of the printer. Most notably is that it's a lot more expensive. The old WF 1100 was, in its day, the cheapest 13 inch wide printer (about $150, I believe). Now the 1430 probably holds that position.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com




On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:
I'm a big fan of the WorkForce 1100 that I have. Quads are simpler to maintain/reload, and I do a lot of text printing (mostly for my wife). It's so fast with text that I had to put a tape at the end of the output tray to stop paper from being shot onto the floor. (They increased the speed of ejection to match the printing speed. The printer is slow with non-text, image printing.) It's made for office/text work, but can do as good an image as any quad printer.

The EcoTank line could be important. Note that Epson sells one model that has a carbon black in the K position. That black appears to dilute well with the generic dilution base. It's a little warmer than Eboni, but it is very cheap and internationally available. As a practical matter, it looks like Epson is now a supplier of that critical MK input to B&W printing; in fact, they may well be the baseline against which all others must be compared. I';ll be doing further testing with this ink when time permits.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com



On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 6:52 AM, robert49brake@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Any chance you might port QTR for the Workforce and/or ET printers? The Echo Tank printers have been available in Europe for some time, including now an A3 printer (ET 1400). A few models are also available in the US now and I'm sure they'll be readily available in Asia, ME, etc. They are also available as 100-240VAC 50/60hz so the same models will be used in Europe and the US. Prices are comparable on both sides of the Atlantic. To my brief inspection they all seem to be using the same variable droplet 3 picolitre print engine. A 4 ink version of Paul R.'s Eboni could work as well as other inksets. The echo tanks could relieve us from a lot of aftermarket cart headaches.


Thanks for listening.








--
Roy Harrington
roy@harrington.com
www.harrington.com

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Question for Roy

2016-05-07 by Walker Blackwell

Are people going to plunk down the money that is mostly the cost of the initial ink tanks just to turn it to a hacked bw printer? How many people? My guess is these printers are warrentied and designed for a single tank of ink and they will fail on the second or third filling . . .


Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Saturday, May 7, 2016, Paul Roark roark.paul@... [QuadtoneRIP] <;QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

As a substitute for QTR, I made Photoshop curves for several inkset approaches. It may well be that those can be linearized via Create ICC-RGB for the newer WorkForce & EcoTank models.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 6:55 AM, robert49brake@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Sorry don't know where those 'h's came from in eco tank:)


Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Question for Roy

2016-05-07 by Paul Roark

I'd guess the only people who would be interested are high volume text printers who already have one of these or are going to buy one based almost entirely on their high volume text printing needs. However, they may want something that uses other than the cheap dyes and maybe something that can make good photos (and text) that would be archival. I doubt it';s worth a B&W ink company investing in setting up a workflow, but it's easy enough to throw out the cheap dyes and put in carbon inks of some sort (better flush first -- recall the old Epson dye incompatibilities). I've also used Noritsu dyes in the 1100 (way more lightfast than what Epson puts in the ET printers).

As to durability, I've been using my WF 1100 pretty much since they were introduced as my everyday and high volume text printer. These are made for high volume office work, and if my WF1100 is representative, they are very durable and reliable with carbon inksets installed.

FWIW

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 8:29 AM, Walker Blackwell forums@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Are people going to plunk down the money that is mostly the cost of the initial ink tanks just to turn it to a hacked bw printer? How many people? My guess is these printers are warrentied and designed for a single tank of ink and they will fail on the second or third filling . . .



Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Saturday, May 7, 2016, Paul Roark roark.paul@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

As a substitute for QTR, I made Photoshop curves for several inkset approaches. It may well be that those can be linearized via Create ICC-RGB for the newer WorkForce & EcoTank models.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 6:55 AM, robert49brake@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Sorry don't know where those 'h's came from in eco tank:)



Re: Question for Roy

2016-05-08 by Jack Winberg

I guess I fail to grasp any advantage of these "ECO" printers for monochrome use, isn't a laser machine better?

For color, another story. It will be interesting to see how the concept evolves. Could be a whole new printer strategy ballgame. Hard to believe the development of hardware that could decimate the entire highly profitable printer cartridge industry!

Of course, the dithering quality will be critical for photo-realistic printing. We shall see!

Jack Winberg

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Question for Roy

2016-05-08 by Paul Roark

​The EcoTank Epson printers that were at issue are inkjet printers​.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 8:48 AM, Jack Winberg jack.winberg@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I guess I fail to grasp any advantage of these "ECO" printers for monochrome use, isn't a laser machine better?

For color, another story. It will be interesting to see how the concept evolves. Could be a whole new printer strategy ballgame. Hard to believe the development of hardware that could decimate the entire highly profitable printer cartridge industry!

Of course, the dithering quality will be critical for photo-realistic printing. We shall see!

Jack Winberg


Re: Question for Roy

2016-05-12 by robert49brake@...

I may be wrong but I think the eco-tank has come from pressure about wasted carts in the environment in Europe. Don't know if it was a sop or trying to get ahead of regulations. It's obvious from the price point that they expect to get more up front. I can be OK with that if the mechanical reality of CIS and third party carts could become more reliable. To date I've lost 3 R1800s and a handful of smaller printers to 3rd party cart issues more than anything else. And I've tossed dozens and dozens of 3rd party carts. I'd pay more for an OEM tank/printer system. I wouldn't hesitate a moment if there was a six position OEM tanked A3 printer available with QTR support.

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