1400 and IGFS profile
2012-01-03 by Mel
One for David (dpgoldenberg33) really Does QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_warm and QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool, require "glop" or spray application ?
Thread
1400 and IGFS profile
Re: 1400 and IGFS profile
2012-01-04 by David
No. The profiles do not include glop (in the "yellow" cartridge in UT-14), and there should be no need for spraying. (I've never actually tried it.) The profiles use the glossy-compatible photo-black ink and no ebony. David --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Mel" <chilterns@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > One for David (dpgoldenberg33) really > > Does QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_warm and QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool, require "glop" or spray application ? >
Re: 1400 and IGFS profile
2012-01-04 by Mel
Thanks for that David At first I read your comments as using Photo Black in the Black (K) position until I realised (looking at QTR Curve Creator)the profiles don't use the Black position at all, so no need for changing carts. Will let you know how I get on with the Ilford paper. Incidentally on another topic, I have seen on a couple of forums that Epson Archival Matte and Epson Enhanced Matte are the same paper. Well here in the UK they are certainly not - Enhanced matte is a brighter white and is considerably more expensive.(sorry to digress) --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dpgoldenberg33@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > No. > > The profiles do not include glop (in the "yellow" cartridge in UT-14), and there should be no need for spraying. (I've never actually tried it.) The profiles use the glossy-compatible photo-black ink and no ebony. > > David > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Mel" <chilterns@> wrote: > > > > One for David (dpgoldenberg33) really > > > > Does QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_warm and QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool, require "glop" or spray application ? > > >
Re: 1400 and IGFS profile
2012-01-05 by Mel
Further on this topic, I have printed off the 21step.tif using QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool and a blend of QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_warm and QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool (75% cool and 25% warm and) and find bronzing on the black end of the step wedge. This is only on the 100% patch and only seems to be in daylight. None of the other patches are affected and it doesn't appear when viewed in artificial (incandescent) light. I also did the same using the same profiles with Epson Premium Semi Gloss paper, with the same result. When using Epson Premium Semi Gloss paper with the Epson 1290 and the 1290 profiles with UT2 inks there was no bronzing - alas the 1290 "gave up the ghost" and is no more. Is there a satisfactory explanation for this and/or could UT2 inks be used with the Epson 1400. I favoured the Epson Premium Semi Gloss paper as it is a brighter white - the Ilford Gold Silk is a creamier paper. --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dpgoldenberg33@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > No. > > The profiles do not include glop (in the "yellow" cartridge in UT-14), and there should be no need for spraying. (I've never actually tried it.) The profiles use the glossy-compatible photo-black ink and no ebony. > > David > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Mel" <chilterns@> wrote: > > > > One for David (dpgoldenberg33) really > > > > Does QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_warm and QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool, require "glop" or spray application ? > > >
Re: 1400 and IGFS profile
2012-01-07 by Mel
Still further on this topic, I posted the following in two replies in the Digital Black & White forum (should have been here first I think since it is a QTR topic). I re linearized David Goldenberg's IGFS profiles(QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_warm and QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool) for the Epson Prem Semi Gloss using an X-Rite 810. The plaque of the 810 gives a reading of 0.09 D on the white spot and 1.79 D on the black spot. These are the correct readings for this plaque's reflection standard. When reading "paper white" the 810 also reads 0.09 D, which is what I would expect. These were the readings I got using the 810, QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool and Epson Premium Semi Gloss paper. .09 .15 .20 .25 .29 .33 .38 .43 .47 .50 .52 .58 .65 .73 .81 .90 1.01 1.19 1.34 1.53 1.81 I then opened QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool in Curve Creator, cleared Liearization and entered these figures and saved it as QTR_1400_UT14_EPSG_cool. Looking at the curve for the result it doesn't look very linear (David's curve for the IGFS is virtually a straight line). Not satisfied with this I then printed a further 21step.tif with this file, remeasured the steps and entered these measurements into the Linearization Values of Curve Creator saving this as QTR_1400_UT14_EPSG_cool1. When I clicked on Show Curve, to my amazement I got a nearly straight line - just a slight wave in the middle. I did the same with QTR_1400_UT14_EPSG_warm and called it warm1 and got a good straight line, identical to David's QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_warm. As this was a better curve than the QTR_1400_UT14_EPSG_cool1 I replaced the cool1 values with the warm1 values to produce the same straight curve and called it cool2. If the object of the exercise is to produce a straight line "curve", have I, in using this method achieved the right result ? --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Mel" <chilterns@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > Further on this topic, I have printed off the 21step.tif using QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool and a blend of QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_warm and QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool (75% cool and 25% warm and) and find bronzing on the black end of the step wedge. This is only on the 100% patch and only seems to be in daylight. None of the other patches are affected and it doesn't appear when viewed in artificial (incandescent) light. > > I also did the same using the same profiles with Epson Premium Semi Gloss paper, with the same result. > > When using Epson Premium Semi Gloss paper with the Epson 1290 and the 1290 profiles with UT2 inks there was no bronzing - alas the 1290 "gave up the ghost" and is no more. > > Is there a satisfactory explanation for this and/or could UT2 inks be used with the Epson 1400. > > I favoured the Epson Premium Semi Gloss paper as it is a brighter white - the Ilford Gold Silk is a creamier paper. > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dpgoldenberg33@> wrote: > > > > No. > > > > The profiles do not include glop (in the "yellow" cartridge in UT-14), and there should be no need for spraying. (I've never actually tried it.) The profiles use the glossy-compatible photo-black ink and no ebony. > > > > David > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Mel" <chilterns@> wrote: > > > > > > One for David (dpgoldenberg33) really > > > > > > Does QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_warm and QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool, require "glop" or spray application ? > > > > > >
Re: 1400 and IGFS profile
2012-01-08 by Mel
And still further My further thoughts on Ilford Gold Fibre Silk v Epson Premium Semi Gloss or Epson Premium Lustre for that matter. >I favoured the Epson Premium Semi Gloss paper as it is a brighter white - the Ilford Gold Silk is a creamier paper. I have revised my comments made above. Although the IGFS is a "creamier" paper, compared with either the EPSG or EPL it seems to produce better, brighter whites than the other two and a warmer/neutral print for the same ink settings. I would suggest adjusting the ratio of cold/warm ink settings for the Epson papers to 60%/40% if you required a warmer "look" to your prints than 75%/25% produces. The EPSG and EPL papers are a "colder" blue grey white, giving a reading of 0.09 D (the plaque standard on my X-Rite 810), whereas the IGFS gives a reading of .04 D - more reflection and a brighter white. So I think on balance I prefer the IGFS paper and by the way, it is heavier, 310gsm, compared with EPSG, at 251gsm and EPL at 250gsm. --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Mel" <chilterns@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > Still further on this topic, I posted the following in two replies in the Digital Black & White forum (should have been here first I think since it is a QTR topic). > > I re linearized David Goldenberg's IGFS profiles(QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_warm and QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool) for the Epson Prem Semi Gloss using an X-Rite 810. The plaque of the 810 gives a reading of 0.09 D on the white spot and 1.79 D on the black spot. These are the correct readings for this plaque's reflection standard. When reading "paper white" the 810 also reads 0.09 D, which is what I would expect. > > These were the readings I got using the 810, QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool and Epson Premium Semi Gloss paper. > > .09 > .15 > .20 > .25 > .29 > .33 > .38 > .43 > .47 > .50 > .52 > .58 > .65 > .73 > .81 > .90 > 1.01 > 1.19 > 1.34 > 1.53 > 1.81 > > I then opened QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool in Curve Creator, cleared Liearization and entered these figures and saved it as QTR_1400_UT14_EPSG_cool. > > Looking at the curve for the result it doesn't look very linear (David's curve for the IGFS is virtually a straight line). > > Not satisfied with this I then printed a further 21step.tif with this file, remeasured the steps and entered these measurements into the Linearization Values of Curve Creator saving this as QTR_1400_UT14_EPSG_cool1. When I clicked on Show Curve, to my amazement I got a nearly straight line - just a slight wave in the middle. > > I did the same with QTR_1400_UT14_EPSG_warm and called it warm1 and got a good straight line, identical to David's QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_warm. As this was a better curve than the QTR_1400_UT14_EPSG_cool1 I replaced the cool1 values with the warm1 values to produce the same straight curve and called it cool2. > > If the object of the exercise is to produce a straight line "curve", have I, in using this method achieved the right result ? > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Mel" <chilterns@> wrote: > > > > Further on this topic, I have printed off the 21step.tif using QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool and a blend of QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_warm and QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool (75% cool and 25% warm and) and find bronzing on the black end of the step wedge. This is only on the 100% patch and only seems to be in daylight. None of the other patches are affected and it doesn't appear when viewed in artificial (incandescent) light. > > > > I also did the same using the same profiles with Epson Premium Semi Gloss paper, with the same result. > > > > When using Epson Premium Semi Gloss paper with the Epson 1290 and the 1290 profiles with UT2 inks there was no bronzing - alas the 1290 "gave up the ghost" and is no more. > > > > Is there a satisfactory explanation for this and/or could UT2 inks be used with the Epson 1400. > > > > I favoured the Epson Premium Semi Gloss paper as it is a brighter white - the Ilford Gold Silk is a creamier paper. > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dpgoldenberg33@> wrote: > > > > > > No. > > > > > > The profiles do not include glop (in the "yellow" cartridge in UT-14), and there should be no need for spraying. (I've never actually tried it.) The profiles use the glossy-compatible photo-black ink and no ebony. > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Mel" <chilterns@> wrote: > > > > > > > > One for David (dpgoldenberg33) really > > > > > > > > Does QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_warm and QTR_1400_UT14_IGFS_cool, require "glop" or spray application ? > > > > > > > > > >
Re: 1400 and IGFS profile
2012-01-08 by David
Mel, > Looking at the curve for the result it doesn't look very linear (David's curve for the IGFS is virtually a straight line). > I'm not sure what curve you are looking at here. It sounds like you are using the Windows tools, which I am not really familiar with. Are you referring to curve of measured densities versus step number, or a curve of the ink load versus step number. (The Mac tools include CurveView utility that shows these curves from the quad files.) As I understand it, a plot of density versus step number should have a slight upward curvature, to compensate for human perception. (See the discussion at the end of Tom Moore's User Guide.) The plot of ink load versus step number isn't likely to be linear or have a simple shape, at least in my experience. > Not satisfied with this I then printed a further 21step.tif with this file, remeasured the steps and entered these measurements into the Linearization Values of Curve Creator saving this as QTR_1400_UT14_EPSG_cool1. I don't think this is what you want to do. The linearization routine assumes that the measurements represent a print made *without* prior linearization. When I clicked on Show Curve, to my amazement I got a nearly straight line - just a slight wave in the middle. Again, I'm not sure what kind of plot this is. The end goal is to get a plot of density versus step number that corresponds to the values in the tables at the end ofTom Moore's guide. At least that's my understanding, and what I tried to do when I made my curves. I hope this helps! David
Re: 1400 and IGFS profile
2012-01-09 by Mel
Thanks for that David Yes it is the Windows version of QTR The "curve" is shown in Curve Creator when clicking on Show Curve. This shows both Linearization (a graph from 0, bottom left to 100 top right) and Ink Curves. It is the Linearization graph that is the one I mentioned. If I enter the values as previous noted, into the Linearization Values panel (Figure 10 of Tom Moore's User Guide)then click Create Curve the result is a Linearization graph from 0, bottom left to 100, top right, of a more or less convex, bowed upward curve. After printing out the 21step.tif of the resulting Linearization I noted the following result for QTR_1400_UT14_EPSG_cool (measured with the X-Rite 810). 0.09* 0.12 0.17 0.22 0.27 0.32 0.37 0.45 0.52 0.55 0.63 0.72 0.81 0.91 1.01 1.10 1.20 1.34 1.47 1.60 1.78 *0.09 is also the X-Rite 810 standard on the plaque white spot for this Densitometer - in other words the standard "white" - corresponding to EPSG paper "white". Do these figures seem OK ? --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dpgoldenberg33@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > > > Mel, > > > Looking at the curve for the result it doesn't look very linear (David's curve for the IGFS is virtually a straight line). > > > > I'm not sure what curve you are looking at here. It sounds like you are using the Windows tools, which I am not really familiar with. Are you referring to curve of measured densities versus step number, or a curve of the ink load versus step number. (The Mac tools include CurveView utility that shows these curves from the quad files.) > > As I understand it, a plot of density versus step number should have a slight upward curvature, to compensate for human perception. (See the discussion at the end of Tom Moore's User Guide.) The plot of ink load versus step number isn't likely to be linear or have a simple shape, at least in my experience. > > > > Not satisfied with this I then printed a further 21step.tif with this file, remeasured the steps and entered these measurements into the Linearization Values of Curve Creator saving this as QTR_1400_UT14_EPSG_cool1. > > I don't think this is what you want to do. The linearization routine assumes that the measurements represent a print made *without* prior linearization. > > When I clicked on Show Curve, to my amazement I got a nearly straight line - just a slight wave in the middle. > > Again, I'm not sure what kind of plot this is. > > The end goal is to get a plot of density versus step number that corresponds to the values in the tables at the end ofTom Moore's guide. At least that's my understanding, and what I tried to do when I made my curves. > > > I hope this helps! > > David >
Re: 1400 and IGFS profile
2012-01-10 by David
Mel, Those numbers seem pretty reasonable. When I plot them versus step number, they give a curve that is similar to those that Tom Moore describes as ideal. It's possible, though, that you might be able to get a bit more density at the high end by adjusting the maximum ink levels from what I used in the GFS profiles. This is the process that is described in the earlier section of Tom's guide, starting on page 11. But, I'm not that much of a Dmax fanatic myself. David --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Mel" <chilterns@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > Thanks for that David > > Yes it is the Windows version of QTR > > The "curve" is shown in Curve Creator when clicking on Show Curve. > This shows both Linearization (a graph from 0, bottom left to 100 top right) and Ink Curves. It is the Linearization graph that is the one I mentioned. > > If I enter the values as previous noted, into the Linearization Values panel (Figure 10 of Tom Moore's User Guide)then click Create Curve the result is a Linearization graph from 0, bottom left to 100, top right, of a more or less convex, bowed upward curve. > > After printing out the 21step.tif of the resulting Linearization I noted the following result for QTR_1400_UT14_EPSG_cool (measured with the X-Rite 810). > > 0.09* > 0.12 > 0.17 > 0.22 > 0.27 > 0.32 > 0.37 > 0.45 > 0.52 > 0.55 > 0.63 > 0.72 > 0.81 > 0.91 > 1.01 > 1.10 > 1.20 > 1.34 > 1.47 > 1.60 > 1.78 > > *0.09 is also the X-Rite 810 standard on the plaque white spot for this Densitometer - in other words the standard "white" - corresponding to EPSG paper "white". > > Do these figures seem OK ? >