SergeModular

Excellent! Now we can stir the conversation into a more fruitful thread,
so if you do not mind, here are a few constructive questions:

1. What is the I/O format? I am assuming bananas from your description.

2. Will the device support interconnection between systems? I.e.,
can I hook up a Serge panel say with a Doepfer or MOTM?

3. If I can connect two separate systems, how do you handle the
grounding problem? Say, I want to connect a Fenix and a
Serge, or two Fenixes, or Serge and Modcan. Is the assumption
that grounding is taken a priori?

4. What is the physical form factor? Desktop, rackmount? If the
latter, what is the size? Power?

5. Will there be voltage scaling or trimpots if converting between
systems? Is this supported at all, or is the view that the
matrix will have to work within a single system?

6. Can I concatenate several of these units in a daisy chain to
form, say, a 16x32/48/64, or any other multiples of 4? Note,
this is different from having separate units working together,
I am talking about integration.

7. Will I be able to label the inputs/outputs within the LCD? If
not was is the approach?

8. Any attenuation/summation available? Has to be done a priori?

9. How do I keep track of knob status for each patch? Use paper?

10. Will you offer customization of the device? I.e. can I work
with you in designing some derivative customized to my setup?
(I am assuming as long as it works with your integrating
subsets of your components).

11. Availability? Warranty? The usual.

Agree with you that this device may not be for everyone - this q's
will go some way in helping folks figure out how to integrate the
thing into their configurations.

Regards,

Bill
______________________________________________________________________
Bill Sequeira, Ph.D.
Principal, Axon Hillock

> From: "sonicsynthi" <sonic@...>
> Reply-To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 02:52:31 -0000
> To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [SergeModular] Re: DIGI-TRIX Microcontrolled patching matrix.
>
> --- In SergeModular@y..., Bill Sequeira <bill@a...> wrote:
>> Comments below.
>>
>>> From: "sonicsynthi" <sonic@s...>
>>> Reply-To: SergeModular@y...
>>> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:48:51 -0000
>>> To: SergeModular@y...
>>> Subject: [SergeModular] Re: DIGI-TRIX Microcontrolled patching
> matrix.
>>>
>>> --- In SergeModular@y..., Bill Sequeira <bill@a...> wrote:
>>> Dear , Dear Bill, I've been using my Serge for around a
>>> decade .Might It be you who is "missing the point " (this is
> common
>>> amongst folk who have yet to grasp the inherent simplicity in a
>>> matrix.....so I wouldnt hold it against you .). You cannot "fan"
> 16
>>> (seperate) outputs to 1 module w/out multiples/mixers (a multiple
> is
>>> simply a mixer without individual attenuation (which all
>>> Serge "Multiples " charmingly provide )
>>
>> Thanks for the unsolicited lesson but that is not necessary. I
> owned
>> a VCS3 for a number of years and know very well what a matrix can
> do.
>> The problem comes perhaps in thinking that this is the first matrix
>> the world has ever seen? ;-)
>
>
> Bill.........really ! How imature of you.
>
>
>
>
> However I would like to balance that
>> comment with the observation that maybe it is the first attempt to
>> create a general purpose matrix for use with modulars, which I
> rather
>> find interesting regardless of what anyone's opinions may be.
>
>
> this is not an EMS clone . it has extra /differant functions . no
> crosstalk , etc........
>
>
>
>>
>> You are correct in terms of the total fan out count, and I apologize
>> as I was trying to clarify John's response rather than trying to
>> offend you. The issue was one of a lack of multiples in a Serge
>> system, not the multiplier in a NxN matrix.
>>
>> That said, the issue still remains the same.
>>
>> The issue at hand is not whether your approach is valid, but rather
>> how useful. As far as I am concerned all I am trying to do is
> understand
>> the usefulness of the device you propose without the hype.
>
>
> like anything it is usefull to those who understand & value it .
> right ? we all square there ? this will appeal to a select few , I
> dont want to sell/give one to anyone who doesnt apreciate it .
> Some of the most cutting edge & respected synth users have already
> requested units.
>
>
>>
>>> there is no such correlation unless you require a massive matrix
>>> system , which cost currently prohibits .that could only be the
>>> opinion of someone who has yet to see the uses of such a system .
>>> think about it - how often do you use all the patch points ? 16
>>> ins /outs goes a long way with purposefull thought .
>>> Of course many "PATCH-PROGRAMABLE" features are best left in that
>>> domain . (and indeed would be a waste of matrix space without
>>> justification within a patch.)
>
> for sure . however it is w/out doubt the easiest to read & neatest
> method of complex patching , even without massive (and rare ) fanning
> out.
>>
>> Hmmm...ok - if I follow your line of thinking, perhaps providing an
>> example of how one of your matrices can work with say, a 14 panel
>> system would be helpful. I do agree that 16x16 can get some
>> interesting stuff done.
>
> in the context of 14 panels all you could do is create a matrix
> from your selected components . it can be phenomenally powerfull.
>
>
>
>>
>> And again, please do not believe that because this is a Serge list
>> people own only Serge equipment. I actually happen to believe in
>> equal opportunity for all equipment. :-)
>
>
> exactly my thoughts . I honestly understand that it wont appeal to
> everyone , but I associate Serge users with some of the most
> experimental around . ofcourse , there will always be the Anal
> anoraks.
>>
>>> If you were more familiar with the power of a matrix perhaps you
>>> would understand why people pay (recently) $5000+ for a simple
>>> monosynth connected in this fashion (the excellent synthi a/vcs3.
>>
>> As I stated above, I am familiar, so enough of this assumption.
>
>
> not like I'm condoning that price -but I do think $3000 is fair
> moneyy.
>>
>> Rather than seeking to frustrate you I am seeking understanding.
>> It is not obvious to me from your description how it would work
>> in a large system. Maybe a bit of a better description of the
>> physical characteristics of your device would serve the discussion
>> better?
>
>
> fire away. perhaps private might be suitable ?
> my pleasure .
>>
>>> A challenge ? Hopefully , right ?
>>> In a way youve disproved your own theory - you actually appear
>>> to be getting it........ - .the Fenix is equivalent to over 2
> serge
>>> panels , and you are correct in your sassumption that a matrix
> router
>>> makes it a very formidable tool .
>>
>> I will oversee your condescension, as "getting it" is not a function
>> of faith but rather a function of learning and inquiry.
>
>
>
> excuse my apparent condescension sir . plain language with no ill
> intent . apolagies.#
>
>>
>> I do believe your device does have application for a small system,
> hence
>> my post. There is no theory behind my discussion, unless you
> misunderstand
>> inquiry as a form of theoretical exposition. And BTW, it is not
> clear to
>> me that the Fenix is equivalent to two Serge modules. One panel
> such as
>> the Animal can generate up to six oscillating sources.
>
> the Fenix will generate 9 without thinking too hard (3 each
> lfo ,osc,filter right ?) . If you wanted all those fenix features at
> 1 time youd need 2 panels right ? Plus ofcourse the fenix oscillators
> & filters sound in a league of their own,.
>
>
>>
>> Part of the battle of adopting a new device in a setup is
> understanding
>> its strengths and weaknesses. A matrix is clearly a strength, a
> weakness
>> appears to be its limited capacity, or is it?
>
> depends on size of matrix . 128 x 128 's are on our cards , plus we
> plan 32 x 32 to connect thoroughly 2 synthis .
>
>
>
> Here is the issue that you
>> could answer for your benefit and the benefit of all of us,
> potential
>> customers. You know more about your device than we do. It is your
> burden
>> to show us the goodness of it.
>
>
> holy shit ? pourqoui ? I can open the gate , but I aint pushin'
> no-one thru......
>>
>>> much of the beauty of the matrix comes from its inherent impish
>>> quality of inviting you to explore the patches a regular modular
> shys
>>> from.
>>> Perhaps mistakenly , this post was sent to the Serge group as I
>>> expect it to be a forum for the intelligent & the experimenter .
> I'm
>>> often surprised at the lo ratio of such debate on line & thus
> rarely
>>> comment.
>>
>> Experimenting means questioning, inquiring, testing and trying. If
> you
>> feel offended by the discussion your post generated, and by people
> wanting
>> to understand what you are offering, then perhaps the post was
> indeed a
>> mistake.
>
> that comment was made in response to a specific point , which was
> ill thought out. I really am only "offering" it to those who are
> interested . IT is not for everyone . God forbid.
>
>
>
> You asked for feedback and you got feedback, maybe not in the
>> format you expected, and maybe not in the a validation format - your
>> idea stands regardless of my belief or ignorance, if you prefer.
>
> some -sent privately (actually by you) was most intelligent&
> worthwhile -as is some of these online points . plus several orders ,
> plus Peter Forrests wanting to include it in his soon due updated N
> to Z of Analogue synthesisers
> believe me -it is possible to have attenuation at every matrix
> junction -yes full mixer rows - nut it will not be cheap , regardless
> it is part of our research .
>>
>> Rather than escalating in a flame war, I would much rather have you
>> provide a complete and solid description. I want to learn more
> about it
>> and if useful to my purpose I would want to have one. But if I
> can't
>> understand its pluses and minuses I will not acquire a unit.
>
>
> To be fair Bill , its all about a study in ltd resources with a
> 16 way matrix . usage & pondering it is the best advice I can offer.
> Please ask away .
> yours
> sonicsynthi
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Bill
>>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>> Bill Sequeira, Ph.D.
>> Principal, Axon Hillock
>
>
>
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> Keep on Patchin'!
>
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