SergeModular

I've uploaded the mentioned picture from Kevin Lightner to the list archive.

Darwin Grosse of the MEME used to have (has?) an older 6-panel Serge in a
wooden case quite the form of the one in the archive. Also Doug Masla's system
has (had?) quite old parts. I don't think they are from the first era, though.

I'm curious why you are interested in the old modules? Writing a history?

Regards
Sebastian Kuehnl

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----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Ridley

To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 5:13 AM

Subject: [SergeModular] Ancient Serges? (long)

Hello

This is my first contribution to the list, so there are probably

too many questions, but here goes...

I've been trying to find out about the earliest Serge modulars, but

information seems to be a bit scarce. I've only managed to find

two pics so far. The first is:

http://www.oldtech.com/synth/SergeMod.html

I assume it is kit built as it contains three different styles of module

layout on the same panels. I think the modules present are:

Top row:

Two Oscillators (early type, includes waveshaper)
Triple Waveshaper
Triple Comparator
Envelope Generator
Quad VCA - later style compared with the rest of the panel)

Bottom row:

Dual Negative Slew
Smooth & Stepped Function
Variable Slope VCF
VCA
Ring
Variable Q VCF (late style)
Phaser (late style)
Variable Bandwidth VCF (late style)

If you look very closely at the quad VCA (top right) I think I can faintly

see the outline of holes in the panel behind the panel marking material.

Did Serge supply prepunched panels, or is someone covering up their

mistakes - or even upgrading from earlier modules?

I've also found this one:

http://www.goldengate.com/~rw/studio/serge.htm

I think it's another kit, as the second dual mixer (bottom right) hasn't been

completed and the general standard of it looks a bit amateurish. Does

anyone know why these early Serges looked yellow? Did they start off

this way, or is it due to the panel material (laminate or film?) ageing?

There was also a 1976 Serge pic that used to be on the Synthfool site, but

that's gone now.

Does anyone have any better pics of old Serges? I still can't find pics of the

early VCF module, the 10 Stage Pulse Sequencer, the early Schmitt Trigger,

Triple Bi-directional Router, multiples or Peak & Trough module. I'm also very
interested in any more information on the very early (1974/1975) VCF and

envelope generators.

Any further information (or corrections to this email) gratefully received.

Thanks

Steve Ridley

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>
> http://www.oldtech.com/synth/SergeMod.html
>
> I assume it is kit built as it contains three different styles of module
> layout on the same panels. I think the modules present are:

Having seen this Serge up close, I agree that it appears to be a kit. The panels
are pre-drilled with all of the possible hole combinations and a paper/laminate
label for each module is put over the front to cover the holes. It is rather cheesy
IMO but it allowed for flexibility of panel layout.

I've heard that some of the filters from the later 70s systems are very nice and
nothing like the current filters. I have a friend that has some panels from that
era, I'll have to give them a closer listen sometime...

Eric



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Steve Ridley wrote:

Hello This is my first contribution to the list, so there are probablytoo many questions, but here goes...
hi steve:

this isn't much help b/c of the perspective, but knox bronson owns (used to
own?) a serge-himself manufactured four panel system (apparently, the
panels serge made himself have unicorn stamps on and inside the panels)
which can sort of be seen down the page, here:

http://reality.sgi.com/adrianj_engr/fum2.0.htm

(these pix are from the analog heaven bay area party we threw a few years back;
please note your moderator matt wilson in there somewhere...)

matt

--
matt wilson is odyssey sounds
email: sebsi23@...
web: http://members.home.net/odysseysounds/index.htm
phone: (619) 296 9224

> I've uploaded the mentioned picture from Kevin Lightner to the list

archive.

Great. I've got a list of the modules in it, somewhere. It's a mixture
of the very early style with diagonal lines around the inputs, and the
slightly later all-rectangles style. Did Serge built mixed panels like
this or do mixed panels indicate a kit.

> Darwin Grosse of the MEME used to have (has?) an older 6-panel Serge in a
> wooden case quite the form of the one in the archive. Also Doug Masla's

system

> has (had?) quite old parts. I don't think they are from the first era,

though.

Yes, I've seen pictures of Doug's, but not close ups. I can recognise
a few of the "keyboard Envelope Generator" modules, but most of
the rest are too small to see.

> I'm curious why you are interested in the old modules?

Several reasons:

There's already plenty of info on later Serge modulars, but not
much on the older systems.

I've heard that the early Serges sounded less clinical and more
"interesting", so I want to find out more.

I've seen some early Serge schematics, but I don't know which
versions of modulars they belong to.

Some of the early modules are very unusual. I think the
Peak & Trough was unique until Modcan did one, and the
early Envelope Generator appears to have some
interesting features - there seen to be 4 or 5 trigger inputs
and outputs.

I know of two early Serge systems for sale at the moment,
and I'd like to know more about them before showing serious
interest.

> Writing a history?

No, but I've helped Peter Forrest on previous issues of the
A-Z of Analogue Synths, and he's looking to update the N-Z
section soon, so I may have some input to that.

I recall reading somewhere that the very earliest Serge modulars were almost a community affair. Everyone who wanted a synthesizer gathered in a room with Serge Tcherepin and helped build them.

Yes. They started off as a "modular for the people". There were approximately

twenty built during the community project at CalArt. They were trying to build

something similar to the Buchla 200 modular, so many of the features were

similar to Buchlas (eg colour coded 4mm connectors, 4U panel height,

bipolar attenuators on CV inputs). There's a section about it in the Mark

Vail Vintage Synths book.

Your analysis appears to be correct. I have a mid-late 1970s catalog which shows the old style graphics and most of the older modules, most modules had text. This means that Serge was already selling these units to "normal" customers. Here's what I can surmise from the catalog:

Top row:

Two Oscillators (early type, includes waveshaper) >> Has a different layout than the catalog, must predate it
Triple Waveshaper >> matches catalog
Triple Comparator >> matches catalog, except knobs in catalog appear to be older, larger type

I think the knobs have been swapped around. The larger ones seem

to have been standard on all the early modules, but now I think you

only see then on the NTO and PCO frequency pots. There's still a

very similar looking knob in the Jameco catalogue if anyone needs

a replacement.

Envelope Generator >> layout is completely different from catalog, as are # of controls/jacks, probably an early version
Quad VCA - later style compared with the rest of the panel) >> matches the catalog, except the center 1/4" jack is swapped with the banana jack

Bottom row:

Dual Negative Slew >> graphics in catalog do not have triangles or semicircles, bottom ouput appears to be LED or 1/8" jack instead of banana jack
Smooth & Stepped Function >> matches catalog
Variable Slope VCF >> matches catalog
VCA >> matches catalog, except this is a dual module with the Ring, and the Ring/VCA strips are swapped
Ring >> matches catalog, see note on VCA
Variable Q VCF (late style) >> agree
Phaser (late style) >> agree
Variable Bandwidth VCF (late style) >> agree

This old Serge catalog has the 10 stage sequencer and the triple bi-directional router, but no peak and trough, multiples, or schmitt triggers. I hope to post a PDF of that catalog soon, to complement the 1982 Serge catalog at the Yahoo SergeModule files site.

Thanks, that would be _very_ interesting. The only catalogue I have is the

1992 one (and the 1982 one you've just posted).

Steve Ridley

Hi Steve,

> I've heard that the early Serges sounded less clinical and more
> "interesting", so I want to find out more.

I also heard often the earlier systems were more common (in that time) in that
they were FAR less stable (less so than most contemporary VCOs) and the filters
had a by FAR warmer sound than the later (when is later?) VCFQ.

> Some of the early modules are very unusual. I think the
> Peak & Trough was unique until Modcan did one, and the
> early Envelope Generator appears to have some
> interesting features - there seen to be 4 or 5 trigger inputs
> and outputs.

I would be very interested in info on this; the wide range of different slope
generating/ processing models are sort of my favourite subject.

<< I think the knobs have been swapped around. The larger ones seem
to have been standard on all the early modules, but now I think you
only see then on the NTO and PCO frequency pots. >>

Not anymore. It's a pity, I would appreciate overall greater knobs on both
Serge and Wiard systems.

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I've had a little exposure to some older Serge stuff... a 10-panel system had a few
old blue plastic panels.. Now, I'm not exactly sure where the blue-face panel
period came in, but I think there was a time when those were available. They might
even have been home-brew panels for all I know. But they were standard Serge
modules behind, I'm pretty sure, at least for the vintage.
The sound quality of these were less than desirable IMO.
For the first few years the build quality of the systems was very uneven.... good
to abysmal. This is due to their having builders that weren't very experienced.
That is not the case now, Rex sweats every little detail.

The old white-face system you mention that used to be in Darwin Grosse's possession
(where is it now??) also passed thru Grant Richter's (Wiard Synth Co) hands. He
mentioned poor stability from some of the oscillators (at first). He said he took
the boards out and there was crappy old flux and gunk on 'em. After carefully
cleaning the boards off and recalibrating, presto! solid performance again. I'm
sure Grant would've gone over the rest of the system doing other restoration work,
so that system would be in excellent shape.

So, if someone out there has an older Serge and doesn't like the performance some
simple TLC might be all that's needed.

Anybody else seen blue-face panels? I think Knox Bronson used to have some too.

Cheers,

John P.

Sebastian Kuehnl wrote:

<< I think the knobs have been swapped around. The larger ones seem
to have been standard on all the early modules, but now I think you
only see then on the NTO and PCO frequency pots. >>

Not anymore. It's a pity, I would appreciate overall greater knobs on both
Serge and Wiard systems.

what do you mean by "greater" knobs, sebastien? bigger?

matt

--
matt wilson is odyssey sounds
email: sebsi23@...
web: http://members.home.net/odysseysounds/index.htm
phone: (619) 296 9224

> what do you mean by "greater" knobs, sebastien? bigger?
>
> matt

Yeah, Mett. Sorry, typical German mistake.

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Hi John,

> For the first few years the build quality of the systems was very uneven....
> good
> to abysmal. This is due to their having builders that weren't very
> experienced.
> That is not the case now, Rex sweats every little detail.

I'll frankly ask then why you are replacing pots on four year old panels?

> The old white-face system you mention that used to be in Darwin Grosse's
> possession
> (where is it now??) also passed thru Grant Richter's (Wiard Synth Co) hands.

I have had offers for quite a number of vintage Serge systems; they were mostly
quite big ones. It's obvious how they must have been the "bohemien" instruments
then (the "speed" part perhaps responsible for the low standard of the kit
systems...) ;)

Sometimes I regret not having bought one of these. A *basic* Buchla 100 system
I played would have cost me thrice the money with much less features. The in
all respects higher sophistication of the successive 200 series stuff makes the
100 shine in a more attractive light than it deserves. Now, people told me
about STS Serge stuff, that the high prices weren't fully justified but you
paid a good deal for the mystic.

> He
> mentioned poor stability from some of the oscillators (at first). He said he
> took
> the boards out and there was crappy old flux and gunk on 'em. After
> carefully
> cleaning the boards off and recalibrating, presto! solid performance again.
> I'm
> sure Grant would've gone over the rest of the system doing other restoration
> work,
> so that system would be in excellent shape.

Would have, yes. But to my knowledge he disagreed very much with the things
commonly seen as the Serge's strengths, like some of the DSG features (hance
the Envelator).

By the way is it a modification reasonable to ask from Rex & crew to make the
DSG tempcomp/ accurately tracking?

While I'm at it; about the VCOs:
VCF here probably means frequency?
Why does the PCO have two 1v/o inputs?
Does the PCO have the same extreme range as the NTO (if biased)?
Can the other modules handle 100,000 Hz at all??
Why are the fine tune knobs differential (only on STS ones)?


Regards
Sebastian Kuehnl

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> I also heard often the earlier systems were more common (in that time) in

that

> they were FAR less stable (less so than most contemporary VCOs)

The early VCOs had a clever but simple expo converter. I can't
see any obvious temperature compensation, but maybe I'll
breadboard one sometime and see how it behaves.

I don't think any of the early modules had 1v/octave inputs. The
early Oscillators had a reversable attenuator on the CV inputs
so they could be scaled from approx 1/2v per octave to -1/2v
per octave - very Buchla.

The early controller was the "Programmer", a sort of manual
sequencer with three rows of four pots and four push buttons
to play it, so 1v/octave wasn't an issue. Serge updated his
designs in the late 1970s, adding 1v/octave control, and
some of the earlier modules were published as construction
projects in Synapse (under the pseudonym Arpad Benares).

> and the filters had a by FAR warmer sound than the later
> (when is later?) VCFQ.

I've only seen a poor quality schematic of the very early
VCF, never a front panel picture. The circuit looks a bit
like the Oberheim SEM filter, so it should sound quite
warm. No 1v/octave or VC Q though...

> > early Envelope Generator appears to have some
> > interesting features - there seen to be 4 or 5 trigger
> > inputs and outputs.

> I would be very interested in info on this; the wide range of different

slope

> generating/ processing models are sort of my favourite subject.

Yes. I can't even find a good picture of that one.

> I think the knobs have been swapped around. The larger ones seem
> to have been standard on all the early modules, but now I think you
> only see then on the NTO and PCO frequency pots. >>

> Not anymore. It's a pity, I would appreciate overall greater knobs on both
> Serge and Wiard systems.

The early Serges had a 1" vertical spacing, so the 3/4" knobs
would fit. Later modules were higher density, so smaller knobs were
needed. I think the larger knobs look better too.



Steve Ridley

> I've had a little exposure to some older Serge stuff... a 10-panel system

had a few

> old blue plastic panels.. Now, I'm not exactly sure where the blue-face

panel

> period came in, but I think there was a time when those were available.

They might

> even have been home-brew panels for all I know. But they were standard

Serge

> modules behind, I'm pretty sure, at least for the vintage.

Can you describe the blue panels? I've never heard of these
before. Are they blue background or blue labelling on a white
(or metallic) background? Were they in the early style (with
triangles around the inputs), the 1976/7(?) style - plain
rectangular boxes around connectors with right-angled corners,
or the later style 1978/9 onwards (?) with rounded corners ?

> The sound quality of these were less than desirable IMO.
> For the first few years the build quality of the systems was very

uneven.... good

> to abysmal. This is due to their having builders that weren't very

experienced.

> That is not the case now, Rex sweats every little detail.

I read somewhere that some of the very early circuit boards were
dip soldered using a frying pan! It's a miracle they ever worked,
or that any of the builders lived to tell the tale...



Steve Ridley (again)

Steve Ridley wrote:

>
> Can you describe the blue panels? I've never heard of these
> before. Are they blue background or blue labelling on a white
> (or metallic) background? Were they in the early style (with
> triangles around the inputs), the 1976/7(?) style - plain
> rectangular boxes around connectors with right-angled corners,
> or the later style 1978/9 onwards (?) with rounded corners ?
>

The blue panels were solid blue plastic plates, same size as the regular panels
are, and maybe 1/8" thick. They were in wretched shape! Any graphics had worn
or peeled off long ago, a few jacks were labeled with those adhesive embossed
plastic tape things. The electronics were equally beat up. There was I think
a phase shifter and a VCFS, a few other things. I saw two or three blue panels
out of a 10 panel system owned by Mike Dvorkin. I believe Knox Bronson also
had some blue panels.... If these were unique then maybe Mike bought them off
Knox, but I don't know that for a fact.

John P.

--- "(Kyle Jarger)" <jkjelec@...> wrote:

"(Kyle Jarger)" wrote:

Thanks Matt for starting this list!

AND THX TO EVERYONE! ITS BEEN FUN, HASN'T IT!

KYLE POST SOME PIX TO SMOG, OK?!!

MATT