Yahoo Groups archive

SynthModules

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 23:14 UTC

Thread

scales....

scales....

2004-04-06 by phdinfunk

Suddenly it occurred to me that the PSIM would be good for all kinds 
of scales....  couldn't we, for all intents and purposes, assign any 
arbitrary scale here?  I mean, map any set of values against any 
other set....  polyphonically?!?  Holy shit!  Okay, I'm really 
excited about that possibility....  a quantizing Shift register in 
some exotic scale... the other PSIM with polyphonic quanting to that 
same scale.... with that whole idea of one input plays unisons while 
another plays scale-tone chords w/voltage controlled inversions.... 
I'm drooling...

And to think I could have all that in a multi program and just 
switch programs to some wild and crazy modulation source, polyphonic 
glide, or even a spare ADSR......  This module was a God-inspired 
stroke of genius, whether anyone realizes that or not.

Does anyone else have the feeling that this could actually DEFINE A 
NEW KIND OF MUSIC, or drastically change the way we make music?

In a way, it's like a modular within a modular...  It makes me feel 
like I have a Buchla 300 system or something  [:-)

No, I'm not on acid, I'm actually sitting here at work, operating a 
switchboard and entering things in a database and I had this 
brainstorm.....

These PSIMs are the most exciting thing in my entire modular 
synth....and, me being an unabashed and rabid synth freak (all my 
friends know, and they've tried an intervention....  it just didn't 
work), that's saying a whole damn lot!!

Cheers to Brice!

Jonathan

Re: scales.... (warning, nontechnical)

2004-04-06 by phdinfunk

I remeber when I got the program, "Buzz" on my computer.  It's buggy 
as all hell but you know what?  In 1977 I would have had to have 
been a PHD student at a major university and I would have had to 
schedule lab time in a multi-hunred thousand dollar lab to use a 
system even remotely resembling that.....  in some ways we have 
embarrassments of riches these days...

I guess I might modify some of my original statements to agree that 
this is like when PCs first were made available to the masses...  
Maybe it isn't anything completely new (didn't even Debussy try to 
make music based upon fibbonacci sequences? and I wrote a fibbonacci 
counting program in basic, I'm trying to think how to make envelopes 
somehow shaped on those curves....)...  still, with something so 
open ended as the PSIM, the synergy between our ideas on the PSIM, 
our complex modular patches, our musical melodies and progressions 
(you guys do make up those too, don't you? :-)...  it feels like 
there is an incredible amout of creative possibility there..  

God, maybe I'm just in a good mood or something because of 
springtime, I don't know, but I've always read about things like the 
Buchla 300 where you could pretty much make any key do anything, or 
things like that one guy's (maybe it was one of the EMS people) 
system where he had 128 formant filters all computer accessable, or 
a computer synthi.....  or a fairlight...  

If you gave each of us access to a full orchestra, all the time, and 
we could make the musicians do whatever we wanted them too, maybe it 
wouldn't be completely "original" but all of our creativities and 
personalities would be expressed in unique and special ways....  and 
if we spent enough time with our orchestras, tweaking everything 
untill it was "right," I think we could generate some really 
wonderful things.  I guess that's what I'm saying....

Okay, Now I've got this huge smile on my face.  I realize I sound 
kind of kooky right now....  I must admit I've been having lovey 
dovey conversations with my girlfriend all day and it's beautiful 
outside and I'd just blow off everything and drink wine and garden 
if I had the choice today (but I still don't think that invalidates 
what I'm saying about the PSIM.. can't we be in a terrific mood and 
be considered "rational" at the same time?  ;-)...

Jonathan


--- In SynthModules@yahoogroups.com, "john mahoney" <jmahoney@g...> 
wrote:
> > Suddenly it occurred to me that the PSIM would be good for all 
kinds
> > of scales....  couldn't we, for all intents and purposes, assign 
any
> > arbitrary scale here?  I mean, map any set of values against any
> > other set....  polyphonically?!?
> 
> Heck, yeah!
> 
> Versatile scaling and quantizing is why I once wrote that only a 
PSIM could
> interface an ARP (1V/Oct), an MS-20 (linear VCOs), an EML 
(1.2V/Oct) and a
> Synthi (0.5V/Octave?) together so they'd all play in tune with 
each other.
> 
> 
> > excited about that possibility....  a quantizing Shift register 
in
> > some exotic scale... the other PSIM with polyphonic quanting to 
that
> > same scale.... with that whole idea of one input plays unisons 
while
> > another plays scale-tone chords w/voltage controlled 
inversions....
> 
> Cool. I like that the "idea of one input plays unisons while 
another plays
> scale-tone chords" has become a recurring theme. :-)
> 
> 
> > And to think I could have all that in a multi program and just
> > switch programs to some wild and crazy modulation source, 
polyphonic
> > glide, or even a spare ADSR......  This module was a God-inspired
> > stroke of genius, whether anyone realizes that or not.
> 
> The PSIM can do things that I always wanted (Cycling74's) Max to 
do, but Max
> never had access to analog I/O (as far as I knew).
> 
> 
> > Does anyone else have the feeling that this could actually 
DEFINE A
> > NEW KIND OF MUSIC, or drastically change the way we make music?
> 
> As a devoted Psimian (the P is silent ;-) I hate to say no, but I 
think the
> answer is "No." I say this mainly because there are hardly any new 
ideas! I
> am pretty sure that concepts like "algorithmic harmony generators" 
have all
> been tried.
> 
> But the PSIM is exciting because the cool tools have been released 
from the
> laboratories and placed into the hands of the teeming masses 
(well, at least
> a small group of analog nuts). It's like when personal computers 
were first
> introduced. Although it might not be conceptually new, having 
access to this
> power is totally new for most of us.
> 
> 
> > In a way, it's like a modular within a modular...  It makes me 
feel
> > like I have a Buchla 300 system or something  [:-)
> 
> Like I said, nothing is *really* new.
> 
> 
> > These PSIMs are the most exciting thing in my entire modular
> > synth....
> 
> Now, why would you say that? Because it's a voltage controlled 
quantizer,
> scaler, logic module, sample & hold, LFO, Envelope Generator, 
Andrew's Dream
> Sequencer, and more, all in one? ;-)
> 
> --
> john <--(still deprived of synth-playing & PSIM-programming time 
due to huge
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> project at work, but it's almost finished!)
> 
> 
> P.S. Why isn't Brice going to make any more PSIMs?

Re: scales....

2004-04-06 by phdinfunk

> P.S. Why isn't Brice going to make any more PSIMs?

He could probably get enough orders for another run.....

How many people out there do you think own and run a modular 
synthesizer?  Or a (honest to God) synthesizer?  Lots of people play 
guitar...  fewer (in the U.S., anyways, I think) play piano, and 
keyboards.....

Synths?  Well, it's still not as big as guitars.... and when I walk 
into Sam Ash, I sometimes notice that some of the coolest synths 
just have all their knobs "turned all the way up" by someone...

Modular synths?  Gosh, there can't be many of those......  modular 
synthesists who also want to buy a PSIM, even fewer.....  it seems 
like such a small portion of the world.  Mind you, large enough that 
a market *exists*, but it's small....  it's like how many people in 
the world practice the sport of fencing?  How many biatheletes are 
there out there?  How many people play the zither (I mean the real 
concert orchestra zither-thingy)?... 

Jonathan

Re: [SynthModules] scales....

2004-04-06 by john mahoney

> Suddenly it occurred to me that the PSIM would be good for all kinds
> of scales....  couldn't we, for all intents and purposes, assign any
> arbitrary scale here?  I mean, map any set of values against any
> other set....  polyphonically?!?

Heck, yeah!

Versatile scaling and quantizing is why I once wrote that only a PSIM could
interface an ARP (1V/Oct), an MS-20 (linear VCOs), an EML (1.2V/Oct) and a
Synthi (0.5V/Octave?) together so they'd all play in tune with each other.


> excited about that possibility....  a quantizing Shift register in
> some exotic scale... the other PSIM with polyphonic quanting to that
> same scale.... with that whole idea of one input plays unisons while
> another plays scale-tone chords w/voltage controlled inversions....

Cool. I like that the "idea of one input plays unisons while another plays
scale-tone chords" has become a recurring theme. :-)


> And to think I could have all that in a multi program and just
> switch programs to some wild and crazy modulation source, polyphonic
> glide, or even a spare ADSR......  This module was a God-inspired
> stroke of genius, whether anyone realizes that or not.

The PSIM can do things that I always wanted (Cycling74's) Max to do, but Max
never had access to analog I/O (as far as I knew).


> Does anyone else have the feeling that this could actually DEFINE A
> NEW KIND OF MUSIC, or drastically change the way we make music?

As a devoted Psimian (the P is silent ;-) I hate to say no, but I think the
answer is "No." I say this mainly because there are hardly any new ideas! I
am pretty sure that concepts like "algorithmic harmony generators" have all
been tried.

But the PSIM is exciting because the cool tools have been released from the
laboratories and placed into the hands of the teeming masses (well, at least
a small group of analog nuts). It's like when personal computers were first
introduced. Although it might not be conceptually new, having access to this
power is totally new for most of us.


> In a way, it's like a modular within a modular...  It makes me feel
> like I have a Buchla 300 system or something  [:-)

Like I said, nothing is *really* new.


> These PSIMs are the most exciting thing in my entire modular
> synth....

Now, why would you say that? Because it's a voltage controlled quantizer,
scaler, logic module, sample & hold, LFO, Envelope Generator, Andrew's Dream
Sequencer, and more, all in one? ;-)

--
john <--(still deprived of synth-playing & PSIM-programming time due to huge
project at work, but it's almost finished!)


P.S. Why isn't Brice going to make any more PSIMs?

Re: scales....

2004-04-06 by drmabuce

--- In SynthModules@yahoogroups.com, "john mahoney" <jmahoney@g...>
wrote:
> 
> P.S. Why isn't Brice going to make any more PSIMs?

Hi John,
   
> john <--(still deprived of synth-playing & PSIM-programming time
due to huge
> project at work, but it's almost finished!)

   i'm in the same boat *twice* right now (i've got a battle royale
on a school board too)
   but i have a bit of a breather today so...

   i leave it to Brice to answer the particulars of the question
above  for himself, of course...

and i emphatically don't mean to imply that your simple question is
any sort of criticism...
i'm just a fatuous pedant and it raises an issue that i think needs a
little airtime in this brave new '2nd golden age of analogs'

i want to share something i learned when i met Grant Richter and
Wiard was barely a gleam in his eye (1999). i am a hardcore
experienced DIYer and i THOUGHT i knew a lot about 'what it takes' to
build a synth module. i had the Quixotic notion that it would be SO
cool to build this stuff 'for a living'   Boy was i wrong....
i had the privilege to be a fly on the wall as Grant struggled to
build up a cottage industry in his cottage and keep cereal in the
cupboard. The bottom line is that i learned that making and
supporting synth modules at commercial standards is an OUTRAGEOUSLY
bad way to support yourself. One bounced check or cancelled order can
collapse a whole parts-acquistion cycle for your next 10 orders. Even
 a 'successful' product can hurt business when the production of it
starts eroding R&D, or worse, customer support time. Grant is a
crusty old confirmed bachelor and i know for a fact that he has
skipped a few meals when mishaps as trivial as a lost UPS package
have occurred. Another thing that i learned was that the wealth of
features (including support) on mass-produced, storebought gadgets
has conditioned the market to expect similar bang/buck ratios from
boutiques that make things by hand and have to stop filling orders to
answer the phone to answer questions (un-grumpily)about when the
orders will be filled. My suspicion is that Brice has a family to
support and is hard pressed to produce what he has produced so far
and keep the wolf from the door. The PSIM is also a bit of a can of
worms from the support standpoint. To quote the excellent book
"Analog Days", it is a 'liminal entity' , a hybrid of software and
hardware. Brice tries valiantly to address every question he gets
from the field but i have to believe that there's a limit to what one
guy can do to support 30 potentially different system configurations
of PC's & PSIMs. i love my little 'rev zero' PSIM and i think that
the analog community is just waking up to the realization of the
power of a truly programmable multichannel function generator, priced
BELOW a thousand bucks. It's a wonderful thing and been a damned long
time in coming. i think everybody should get to try this thing....
but-
as a business, i think Brice would be well-advised to take it very
slowly and carefully, and build only what he can afford and support.
i'm very content to wait, years if necessary, for 'version 2'
especially if it means that Brice will be on solid financial footing
to support his cutomers and underwrite future development

sorry for the soapboxing
but i think that folks need to be aware of the harsh realities of
basement industries and how lucky we are that these mad scientists
(and thus amateur businessmen) are willing to share their splendid
monsters with us

best regards
-doc

Re: [SynthModules] scales....

2004-04-06 by Brice D. Hornback

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "john mahoney" <jmahoney@gate.net>
To: <SynthModules@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [SynthModules] scales....


<snip>

> P.S. Why isn't Brice going to make any more PSIMs?

I never said I wasn't going to do any more.  I only said I wasn't going to
do another run until *after* I do a few of the add-on modules for the
existing customers.  You'll see more PSIM-1 modules... and by that time,
there will be several add-on modules to compliment it.  Also, imagine the
possibilities of having a PSIM-1 controlling a PSIM-1 controlling a PSIM-1,
etc.  ;-)

I haven't even shipped all the modules from this current batch... think
anyone is ready to get put on a waiting list for the next batch this soon?

- Brice

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
monster.
  And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Re: [SynthModules] scales....

2004-04-07 by john mahoney

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Brice D. Hornback" <synthmodules@synthmodules.com>
>
> > P.S. Why isn't Brice going to make any more PSIMs?
>
> I never said I wasn't going to do any more.  I only said I wasn't going to
> do another run until *after* I do a few of the add-on modules ...

Brice,
My mistake, thanks for the clarification. I wasn't suggesting that you build
more right away, but I had the incorrect impression that you were *never*
going to make more. I, for one, look forward to some PSIM add-on modules!

Dr. Mabuse,
I agree on virtually all counts.

Jonathan,
The modular market is larger than you might think. Lok at all the modules
that Doepfer just announced -- somebody must be buying this stuff! But,
sales and marketing discussions are for other forums.
--
john

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.