Analogue-sequencer

> Maybe it's possible to use some of the F1-F3 buttons to do a 
> fine tune on the currently dialed-in tempo?

ah....dunno if it's possible but that'd be cool. but to be honest, i 
do just fine with the tempo settings as they are now. my question 
came from thinking about (for now) hypothetical situations kinda like 
Rob described.

grtz Chiel

> i've got some strange stuff going on with the BTempo setting; i'm
> basically not able to set it anymore. every time i hit the 'BTempo'-
> softkey and then twist the knob to actually set the initial tempo my
> P3 automatically jumps back to Init tempo = off.

Odd. I'll check the latest fw build on mine and see if it does the same
thing.

> on the subject of tempo: how come the tempo setting jumps per 2 bpm
> above 150 and per 4 above 170? kind of annoying, that, as hardly
> anything i do is below 160..

The tempo knob is scaled to suit the tempo range I use most.
Between the range of 120 to 150 bpm, it actually steps 0.5 bpm per step,
although you can't see this on the display. Towards the little used
extremities, the steps get bigger, as you noticed.
The scaling is held in a lookup table for the 16 bit timer values and
numeric tempo value, so it could be changed easily, but there are only 128
possible tempo settings.
I might be able to produce a firmware patch with an alternative 'nosebleed'
tempo map ;-)
Or if there was a general consensus that less resolution was acceptable at
the extreme ends of the scale, I could adjust the map to extend the 'fine'
region over a larger area.

> another thing; how come the midi-thru and other user-config settings
> aren't stored in a sysex dump? is this because a sysex dump is only
> of the bank/pattern/part/playlist memory and not the actual OS's
> memory, where such stuff is stored?

I could add a block type to support 'general config' settings. It's missing
more due to lack fo time than any other reason. I guess it would be useful
to include the midi channel settings and user config in a dump.

Cheers,
Colin f



________________________________________________
Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2

On Friday 04 June 2004 09:41, Colin f wrote:
> Or if there was a general consensus that less resolution
> was acceptable at the extreme ends of the scale, I could
> adjust the map to extend the 'fine' region over a larger
> area.

I'd rather see a higher resolution in all areas of the tempo 
range, like a .5 or even a .1 BPM resolution. 

Why? Suppose you have a song running at a given tempo on 
your DAW, with recorded audio. At a point you decide that 
the P3 will become the MIDI master machine, and you want to 
dial in the tempo used on the DAW, only to find out it 
isn't there. That's a problem, because the already recorded 
audio will play at a wrong tempo, and the whole idea must 
be aborted.

I'm also a low tempo junk, so I'd like the hot spot to move 
down in the tempo map, instead of having it moved up.

Maybe it's possible to use some of the F1-F3 buttons to do a 
fine tune on the currently dialed-in tempo?

- Robert

> Maybe it's possible to use some of the F1-F3 buttons to do a 
> fine tune on the currently dialed-in tempo?

The only practical restriction on the fineness of the tempo setting 
is the interface - the knob only has 128 positions.
The value that defines the period of the 48ppqn clock is generated 
by a 16 bit timer with a resolution of 1 microsecond. There's a 
table of 2 bytes for each tempo that holds the clock period in 
microseconds, and 1 byte that holds the numeric value of the tempo.
So fine-tuning the tempo is somewhat tricky - I'd need to either 
calculate the 16 bit timer value from the tempo, and use more bits 
to represent the tempo, or just interpolate between the lookup table 
values based on a fractional part of the tempo. But with the 
remaining code space so limited, this might not be the most popular 
use of what's left.
I reckon syncing your P3 from a more accurate tempo source would be 
the best bet if you want it to lock to audio tracks.

Maybe the current tempo map could do with some tweaking though.
What tempo ranges do people use ?

Cheers,
Colin f

Hi Colin,

If i get the box i will use it between 80 and 195 bpm (i use the 80 to make odd sequences that go 160 bpm but in a different swing).

So how accurate is the p3 in the higher regions of the bpm???

 

Greets Bruce


		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends.  Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Using it stand alone I would opt for the lower speeds too. I would not 
need to go above 160 either. But I would definitely go lower then 40 if 
possible. The lower the better :-)



Op 4-jun-04 om 23:05 heeft bruce thedekaa het volgende geschreven:

>
> Hi Colin,
>
> If i get the box i will use it between 80 and 195 bpm (i use the 80 to 
> make odd sequences that go 160 bpm but in a different swing).
>
> So how accurate is the p3 in the higher regions of the bpm???
>
>
>
> Greets Bruce
>
>
> 		
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Friends.  Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, colinfraser_com wrote:

> Maybe the current tempo map could do with some tweaking though.
> What tempo ranges do people use ?

110-115, the officially sanctioned leichenfeld(tm) tempo range... :)

(though i've found drinking earl grey usually makes me kick it up into the
130s, heh)

bleep.
out.

---
http://leichenfeld.iuma.com
http://thirdwavecollective.com

> So how accurate is the p3 in the higher regions of the bpm???

It's very accurate at each setting - the issue is just the distance
between discrete tempos.
The current map runs from 40 to 120 bpm in 2 bpm steps, 120 to 150 bpm
in 0.5 bpm steps, 150 to 170 bpm in 2 bpm steps, and 170 to 240 bpm in 4
bpm steps.
 
> Using it stand alone I would opt for the lower speeds too. I 
> would not 
> need to go above 160 either. But I would definitely go lower 
> then 40 if 
> possible. The lower the better :-)

The minimum theoretically possible tempo is around 19 bpm.
Maybe if I move the tempo map into RAM, I can save some code space, and
make it editable over sysex ;-)

Cheers,
Colin f

On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Colin f wrote:

> The minimum theoretically possible tempo is around 19 bpm.
> Maybe if I move the tempo map into RAM, I can save some code space, and
> make it editable over sysex ;-)

that would be an excellent solution... would that affect the number of
banks/patterns that could be stored?

bleep.
out.

---
http://leichenfeld.iuma.com
http://thirdwavecollective.com

> > The minimum theoretically possible tempo is around 19 bpm.
> > Maybe if I move the tempo map into RAM, I can save some 
> code space, and
> > make it editable over sysex ;-)
> 
> that would be an excellent solution... would that affect the number of
> banks/patterns that could be stored?

Nope - there's 693 bytes of BBRAM left. The tempo map needs 384.

Cheers,
Colin f

That would be great indeed. But only if it does not interfere with 
other brilliant ideas you had in mind for those bytes... :-)

Boele


Op 5-jun-04 om 0:04 heeft Colin f het volgende geschreven:

>>> The minimum theoretically possible tempo is around 19 bpm.
>>> Maybe if I move the tempo map into RAM, I can save some
>> code space, and
>>> make it editable over sysex ;-)
>>
>> that would be an excellent solution... would that affect the number of
>> banks/patterns that could be stored?
>
> Nope - there's 693 bytes of BBRAM left. The tempo map needs 384.
>
> Cheers,
> Colin f
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

I forgot I changed the P3 cock to 18Mhz... which means the clock period
resolution is in steps of 0.666 microseconds, and the minimum tempo is
therefore about 30 bpm.

I'm having play with some integer maths to see if I can calculate timer
values on the fly from a 16 bit tempo.
Maybe I can remove the lookup table altogether, and make the resolution
much finer...

Cheers,
Colin f

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 20:58:12 -0000, "colinfraser_com"
<colin@colinfraser.com> wrote:


>Maybe the current tempo map could do with some tweaking though.
>What tempo ranges do people use ?

Typically between 90BPM and 148 BPM I guess.

Paul
---
Paul Nagle / Soft Room Music
Email: paul@softroom.co.uk www.softroom.co.uk
                           www.BogusFocus.com

After a bit of jiggling about with the numbers, it looks like I'll be
able to generate the clock timer values from a tempo value by using a 32
bit integer divide by an 8 or 16 bit tempo value. With a bit of luck,
this will actually reduce the size of the code (assuming the divide
routine comes in at under 300 bytes or so) and enable setting of tempo
in 0.1 bpm steps using some modification to the UI (maybe a TR808 style
'fine tempo' option for the data knob).

Cheers,
Colin f

On Saturday 05 June 2004 11:06, Colin f wrote:
> After a bit of jiggling about with the numbers, it looks
> like I'll be able to generate the clock timer values from
> a tempo value by using a 32 bit integer divide by an 8 or
> 16 bit tempo value. With a bit of luck, this will
> actually reduce the size of the code (assuming the divide
> routine comes in at under 300 bytes or so) and enable
> setting of tempo in 0.1 bpm steps using some modification
> to the UI (maybe a TR808 style 'fine tempo' option for
> the data knob).

Awesome Colin! :) That's a great improvement.

Btw, I received the package yesterday.

Cheers!
Robert

> Maybe the current tempo map could do with some tweaking though.
> What tempo ranges do people use ?


lowest i would ever use would be around 130, highest about 200.
grtz Chiel

> > Maybe the current tempo map could do with some tweaking though.
> > What tempo ranges do people use ?

> lowest i would ever use would be around 130, highest about 200.
> grtz Chiel

So the general consensus seems to be  - we all use different tempos !

Anyway... in the firmware version I'm working on, I've ripped out the
lookup tables for the 16 bit timer values for each tempo, and replaced
it with a routine to calculate the timer value from the tempo value
directly. The divide routine uses the same ROM space as the lookup
tables, so the code size is the same.
The tempo value is now held as the 'real' number i.e. the tempo in BPM.
Before it was held as an index to the lookup tables.
There is still a lookup table to hold the real tempo value for each
position on the tempo pot, since the tempo pot only has 128 positions.
I have spread the map out a bit - it now runs from 30 to 253 BPM. 30 is
the minimum possible with the timer, 253 just happened to be where I got
to with the new spacing. The maximum that could be held in the tempo
variable is 255 anyway.
The extra resolution will be provided by the fact the the tempo value is
multiplied by 10 before it is passed to the 'calculate timer' routine.
So I can easily add a 'fine tempo adjust' variable that will be added to
the 10x integer tempo value when the clock period is calculated - giving
the fine tune value a resolution of 0.1 BPM.
The question now is how to make this value accessible through the UI. I
was thinking of making FUNC+data adjust the tempo fine tune over a range
of 0 to 5 BPM, in 0.1 BPM steps, very much like the fine tempo control
on a TR808.
This will fill in the 'gaps' between the integer tempo values for those
of you who need to fine tune to the tempo to an audio sample, but can be
ignored by the rest who are happy with tempo adjustment in 1 BPM steps
(or 2 and 4 BPM steps as you approach the limits).

Cheers,
Colin f

On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 20:08:15 +0100, "Colin f" <colin@colinfraser.com>
wrote:

>The question now is how to make this value accessible through the UI. I
>was thinking of making FUNC+data adjust the tempo fine tune over a range
>of 0 to 5 BPM, in 0.1 BPM steps, very much like the fine tempo control
>on a TR808.

Sounds very workable.

>This will fill in the 'gaps' between the integer tempo values for those
>of you who need to fine tune to the tempo to an audio sample, but can be
>ignored by the rest who are happy with tempo adjustment in 1 BPM steps
>(or 2 and 4 BPM steps as you approach the limits).

Once I get playing, I usually prefer no tempo adjustment at all... 8-)

Paul

---
Paul Nagle - SoftRoom Music - www.softroom.co.uk
          Bogus Focus Records - www.BogusFocus.com