Analogue-sequencer

Folks,

I've been having a look a the possibility of adding midi controller 
functionality to the P3 knobs in play mode.
I've got a test build running which transmits a volume cc message on 
each track's midi channel when the lower knob is adjusted.
Potentially this could become configurable, so that you can choose 
any controller number and channel to be sent for each of the knobs.
But saving that configuration would eat into the remaining RAM 
space, and may prevent 'per bank midi channels' being possible.
So, if it was a straight choice between these two features, which 
would you prefer ?

Cheers,
Colin f

> > So, if it was a straight choice between these two features,
> > which would you prefer ?
> 
> I'd prefer the sending of (configurable) CCs! :))
> 
> - Robert

Yep, seconded - that would be very handy :)

Pete

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "colinfraser_com" 
<colin@c...> wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> 
> I've been having a look a the possibility of adding midi controller 
> functionality to the P3 knobs in play mode.
> I've got a test build running which transmits a volume cc message 
on 
> each track's midi channel when the lower knob is adjusted.
> Potentially this could become configurable, so that you can choose 
> any controller number and channel to be sent for each of the knobs.
> But saving that configuration would eat into the remaining RAM 
> space, and may prevent 'per bank midi channels' being possible.
> So, if it was a straight choice between these two features, which 
> would you prefer ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Colin f

NO!!
per-bank midi channel assignments..please..let people use the "knob N 
to aux C/D" events if they want to use the knobs for controllers.

On Tuesday 19 October 2004 11:14, colinfraser_com wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I've been having a look a the possibility of adding midi
> controller functionality to the P3 knobs in play mode.
> I've got a test build running which transmits a volume cc
> message on each track's midi channel when the lower knob
> is adjusted. Potentially this could become configurable,
> so that you can choose any controller number and channel
> to be sent for each of the knobs. But saving that
> configuration would eat into the remaining RAM space, and
> may prevent 'per bank midi channels' being possible. So,
> if it was a straight choice between these two features,
> which would you prefer ?

I'd prefer the sending of (configurable) CCs! :))

- Robert

--- Robert van der Kamp <robnet@wxs.nl> wrote:

> 
> On Tuesday 19 October 2004 11:14, colinfraser_com
> wrote:
> > Folks,
> >
> > I've been having a look a the possibility of
> adding midi
> > controller functionality to the P3 knobs in play
> mode.
> > I've got a test build running which transmits a
> volume cc
> > message on each track's midi channel when the
> lower knob
> > is adjusted. Potentially this could become
> configurable,
> > so that you can choose any controller number and
> channel
> > to be sent for each of the knobs. But saving that
> > configuration would eat into the remaining RAM
> space, and
> > may prevent 'per bank midi channels' being
> possible. So,
> > if it was a straight choice between these two
> features,
> > which would you prefer ?
> 
> I'd prefer the sending of (configurable) CCs! :))
> 
> - Robert
> 
  yes, thinking the same! (cutoff, reso, decay....)

 magD.


		
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Robert van der Kamp wrote:
> On Tuesday 19 October 2004 11:14, colinfraser_com wrote:
>> Folks,
>> 
>> I've been having a look a the possibility of adding midi
>> controller functionality to the P3 knobs in play mode.
>> I've got a test build running which transmits a volume cc
>> message on each track's midi channel when the lower knob
>> is adjusted. Potentially this could become configurable,
>> so that you can choose any controller number and channel
>> to be sent for each of the knobs. But saving that
>> configuration would eat into the remaining RAM space, and
>> may prevent 'per bank midi channels' being possible. So,
>> if it was a straight choice between these two features,
>> which would you prefer ?
> 
> I'd prefer the sending of (configurable) CCs! :))

Me too! Definitely!

Gert
www.waveworld.tv

On Tuesday 19 October 2004 12:58, ch.³l wrote:

> NO!!
> per-bank midi channel assignments..please..let people use
> the "knob N to aux C/D" events if they want to use the
> knobs for controllers.

Hmm, not familiar with this trick. If this is possible, why 
is Colin trying to implement the CC stuff?

- Robert

> > NO!!
> > per-bank midi channel assignments..please..let people use
> > the "knob N to aux C/D" events if they want to use the
> > knobs for controllers.
> 
> Hmm, not familiar with this trick. If this is possible, why 
> is Colin trying to implement the CC stuff?

In order to send a controller from the knobs using the aux events, you have
to use two auxes, and set it up on every pattern.
Also, the knob values will only be sent on each beat.
With play mode controllers, a message would be sent whenever the knob is
moved, and this would be independent of the pattern, so your auxes would be
free for whatever else.

There would be enough space for per bank midi channels if the controller
config was global - i.e. just one controller set up and not per bank. Maybe
that would be a workable compromise...
Another option would be to add either an aux event or a new pattern config
variable, that would over-ride the global midi channel per pattern. i.e.
patterns would default to the global midi channel for that track, but you
could set an alternative channel that woudl only apply to that pattern. An
aux event would let you change the midi channel per step, but that would use
up an aux.
Either could be more flexible than per bank midi channel config.

Cheers,
Colin f

On Tuesday 19 October 2004 13:21, Colin f wrote:

> In order to send a controller from the knobs using the
> aux events, you have to use two auxes, and set it up on
> every pattern. Also, the knob values will only be sent on
> each beat. With play mode controllers, a message would be
> sent whenever the knob is moved, and this would be
> independent of the pattern, so your auxes would be free
> for whatever else.

Ah, cool. That's the way to do it, imo. :)


> There would be enough space for per bank midi channels if
> the controller config was global - i.e. just one
> controller set up and not per bank. Maybe that would be a
> workable compromise...

Hmm, not very pretty. I'm sure I'd want different CC configs 
at least for each song (bank). Making this global would 
sortoff kill the whole idea.

But ch.3 would say the same of the midi channel asignments, 
of course. ;)

- Robert

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:21:20 +0100, "Colin f" <colin@colinfraser.com>
wrote:

>In order to send a controller from the knobs using the aux events, you have
>to use two auxes, and set it up on every pattern.

Which is a drag to do. 

>Also, the knob values will only be sent on each beat.
>With play mode controllers, a message would be sent whenever the knob is
>moved, and this would be independent of the pattern, so your auxes would be
>free for whatever else.

Free them Auxes! Let's print t-shirts!

>There would be enough space for per bank midi channels if the controller
>config was global - i.e. just one controller set up and not per bank. Maybe
>that would be a workable compromise...

It would be perfect for me. I'd never remember different assignments
in each bank anyway. 
Having the ability to set MIDI channels freely per bank would be cool,
plus if the global knob assignments were routed to the channel of the
related tracks (for the 16 knobs above tracks) and the other 16 (above
parts) kept whatever channels were specified at definition, this could
make everyone happy?

The P3 being able to work as a controller is cool - but fist and
foremost it is a sequencer, and I'd say variable channels per bank
more logical to include. OK, I just bought a Remote 25 and, using the
P3 thru, can route any number of controllers from this decicated piece
of kit.

>Another option would be to add either an aux event or a new pattern config
>variable, that would over-ride the global midi channel per pattern. i.e.
>patterns would default to the global midi channel for that track, but you
>could set an alternative channel that woudl only apply to that pattern. An
>aux event would let you change the midi channel per step, but that would use
>up an aux.

Clever. I'd probably prefer the previous suggestion for simplicity of
use but that's only me.

Paul
---
Paul Nagle - SoftRoom Music - www.softroom.co.uk
          Bogus Focus Records - www.BogusFocus.com

> 
> Robert van der Kamp wrote:
>> On Tuesday 19 October 2004 11:14, colinfraser_com wrote:
>>> Folks,
>>> 
>>> I've been having a look a the possibility of adding midi
>>> controller functionality to the P3 knobs in play mode.
>>> I've got a test build running which transmits a volume cc
>>> message on each track's midi channel when the lower knob
>>> is adjusted. Potentially this could become configurable,
>>> so that you can choose any controller number and channel
>>> to be sent for each of the knobs. But saving that
>>> configuration would eat into the remaining RAM space, and
>>> may prevent 'per bank midi channels' being possible. So,
>>> if it was a straight choice between these two features,
>>> which would you prefer ?
>> 
>> I'd prefer the sending of (configurable) CCs! :))
> 
> Me too! Definitely!
> 
> Gert
> www.waveworld.tv
> 

An easy decision for me... CCs.

> But saving that configuration would eat into the remaining RAM
> space, and may prevent 'per bank midi channels' being possible.
> So, if it was a straight choice between these two features, which
> would you prefer ?

i believe i'm in the minority here, but i'd prefer per-bank midi
channels...

bleep.
out.

---
http://leichenfeld.iuma.com
http://thirdwavecollective.com

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Colin f wrote:

> There would be enough space for per bank midi channels if the controller
> config was global - i.e. just one controller set up and not per bank. Maybe
> that would be a workable compromise...

yes, since on most (or maybe just many) devices, you can already assign
midi controllers to specific params...

> Another option would be to add either an aux event or a new pattern config
> variable, that would over-ride the global midi channel per pattern. i.e.
> patterns would default to the global midi channel for that track, but you
> could set an alternative channel that woudl only apply to that pattern. An
> aux event would let you change the midi channel per step, but that would use
> up an aux.

nah... that makes it too complicated to do a simple task...

bleep.
out.

---
http://leichenfeld.iuma.com
http://thirdwavecollective.com

Colin,
 
> space, and may prevent 'per bank midi channels' being possible.
> So, if it was a straight choice between these two features, which
> would you prefer ?

That¹s nasty..
Me I'd prefer per bank MIDI channels... But I have a feeling I'm in the
minority..

Paul

Colin,

As another though, could we not loose one pattern on the last bank to get
BOTh these features?

I'd be happy to loose a pattern to get both.

Paul

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Paul Maddox (Mail LIsts) wrote:

> > space, and may prevent 'per bank midi channels' being possible.
> > So, if it was a straight choice between these two features, which
> > would you prefer ?
>
> That¹s nasty..
> Me I'd prefer per bank MIDI channels... But I have a feeling I'm in the
> minority..

we may be few, so let us be loud! :) someone said it best before... the P3
is a sequencer, not a midi controller, so sequencer-specific functions
(like per bank midi channels) should be a priority. besides, who here
does not have either a midi controller with assignable CCs or synths with
assignable CCs?

bleep.
out.

---
http://leichenfeld.iuma.com
http://thirdwavecollective.com

I also would vote for the more sequencer specific features above midi 
cc's.

Boele


Op 19-okt-04 om 11:14 heeft colinfraser_com het volgende geschreven:

>
>
> Folks,
>
> I've been having a look a the possibility of adding midi controller
> functionality to the P3 knobs in play mode.
> I've got a test build running which transmits a volume cc message on
> each track's midi channel when the lower knob is adjusted.
> Potentially this could become configurable, so that you can choose
> any controller number and channel to be sent for each of the knobs.
> But saving that configuration would eat into the remaining RAM
> space, and may prevent 'per bank midi channels' being possible.
> So, if it was a straight choice between these two features, which
> would you prefer ?
>
> Cheers,
> Colin f
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "colinfraser_com" 
<colin@c...> wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> 
> I've been having a look a the possibility of adding midi controller 
> functionality to the P3 knobs in play mode.
> I've got a test build running which transmits a volume cc message 
on 
> each track's midi channel when the lower knob is adjusted.
> Potentially this could become configurable, so that you can choose 
> any controller number and channel to be sent for each of the knobs.
> But saving that configuration would eat into the remaining RAM 
> space, and may prevent 'per bank midi channels' being possible.
> So, if it was a straight choice between these two features, which 
> would you prefer ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Colin f

Per bank midi channels please.

If remaining Ram is that critical then I would rather it was used for 
Sequencer style features.


Add the CC stuff when you do P3.5 and P4.


Regards

Dave J
It is a Sequencer after all.

> I'm totally happy with Colin's priorities, but I simply 
> don't understand why the P3 can't have realtime midi 
> controllers, or why it is not a main task. I don't see how 
> this is different from all the other things it already 
> does!
> 
> - Robert

that's the difference between sequenced events & CC's and direct 
realtime control. the P3 doesn't have a piano-style keyboard either, 
but it does send out notes...;-)

I think it's very odd that realtime CC control of external 
gear is 'not really a sequencer job' and thus should be 
handled by a drehbank or similar gear. Many if not all of 
the hardware MIDI sequencers I know support sending of CCs 
in some way (faders, or knobs), and all software sequencers 
have pages where knob boxes can be designed and used. If 
the P3 is allowed to send notes to a synth, and send it aux 
events, why not allow it to control its volume/filter/
whatever as well?

I'm totally happy with Colin's priorities, but I simply 
don't understand why the P3 can't have realtime midi 
controllers, or why it is not a main task. I don't see how 
this is different from all the other things it already 
does!

- Robert

>
> I think it's very odd that realtime CC control of external
> gear is 'not really a sequencer job' and thus should be
> handled by a drehbank or similar gear. Many if not all of
> the hardware MIDI sequencers I know support sending of CCs
> in some way (faders, or knobs), and all software sequencers
> have pages where knob boxes can be designed and used. If
> the P3 is allowed to send notes to a synth, and send it aux
> events, why not allow it to control its volume/filter/
> whatever as well?

when it comes to knob twiddling, *that* is not a sequencer's job. the
knobs on a sequencer should do sequencer things. but you are correct,
sending CCs *as part of a sequence* is part of a sequencer's job, and the
P3 does that. but one of the tradeoffs in its nature as a step sequencer
is that those CCs are only sent on each step, rather than the smooth
sweeps you can do in other sequencers. i haven't found that to be a
problem for me though...
bleep.
out.