Analogue-sequencer

<< I've been having a look a the possibility of adding midi controller 
functionality to the P3 knobs in play mode. [snip]
So, if it was a straight choice between these two features, which would you 
prefer ? >>

hmm... haven't really used the banks much yet.... don't know what I'd be 
losing. 

but frankly, for all that I can see the usefulness of having RT midi 
controllers available on the p3, as soon as you can adjust one or two things per 
track, you'll want to do more.
 
buy a drehbank, for heaven's sake! 64 knobs! or several of the (cheap) pocket 
controllers.... or any of the other dozen or so fully-configurable midi 
control surfaces that can do all that boring stuff. you should anyway, if you are 
using any sort of midi module, because trying to edit parameters (especially on 
stage) without an external controller is like trying to paint your hallway 
through the letter box. 

there are (surely) more interesting things that the p3's hardware could be 
made to do /to the p3 itself/ instead of tying it up doing things to other midi 
boxes like this.
for instance, I would like to be able to use the knobs to transpose a track 
on-the-fly. or change the length of the current pattern. or alter it's global 
velocity (a la notron). or gate time (ditto). or scale the randomness of the 
auxes.... or shift a pattern sideways....

colin, don't be swayed by this bleating! :-)

a pocket controller only costs 80 euros & it has 16 assignable knobs. the p3 
shouldn't be forced to do such dull jobs as midi cc's that aren't 
pattern-dependent.
there. that's my 2c worth.

now, what I really want to be able to do is make edits to a pattern while 
it's running, & exit the edit mode without saving the changes. the pattern would 
only revert to it's original state on a part change or bank change, or if I go 
back into edit mode & undo whatever I've changed.... (notron again!) 
so, for example, I have a pattern in there that starts off as 16 steps & then 
gets shortened to 8 steps for a while, but in the meantime I want to edit 
something in another pattern. next time we start the same piece, it should be 
back at 16 steps. I'm sure there's a way to do this already but I haven't smoked 
enough to discover it. th'other half doesn't like me burning the 'erb trumpet.

d/r.m.i.

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:30:47 EDT, ferrograph@aol.com wrote:

>but frankly, for all that I can see the usefulness of having RT midi 
>controllers available on the p3, as soon as you can adjust one or two things per 
>track, you'll want to do more.

Plus if you go into pattern or playlist edit, turn the knobs then
return to play mode, you will then have jumps in the CC value as soon
as you start turning. Sharing controls for such things as track level
is not a good idea without a pass-thru mode. I just bought a Novation
Remote 25 for banging in sequences, controlling levels, sending CCs.
Cost me £130 and is dedicated to the task and very versatile. 
 
>there are (surely) more interesting things that the p3's hardware could be 
>made to do /to the p3 itself/ instead of tying it up doing things to other midi 
>boxes like this.
>for instance, I would like to be able to use the knobs to transpose a track 
>on-the-fly. or change the length of the current pattern. or alter it's global 
>velocity (a la notron). or gate time (ditto). or scale the randomness of the 
>auxes.... or shift a pattern sideways....

Yes, I like the cut of your gib sir! This is the kind of thing I'd
most prefer which is why I originally wanted the Aux controls to be
knobbable. However the current implementation uses up auxes, takes
time, needs to be done per pattern etc. It can do cool things but
slowly.. and I'm a fast kinda guy.

>now, what I really want to be able to do is make edits to a pattern while 
>it's running, & exit the edit mode without saving the changes. the pattern would 
>only revert to it's original state on a part change or bank change, or if I go 
>back into edit mode & undo whatever I've changed.... (notron again!) 
>so, for example, I have a pattern in there that starts off as 16 steps & then 
>gets shortened to 8 steps for a while, but in the meantime I want to edit 
>something in another pattern. next time we start the same piece, it should be 
>back at 16 steps. I'm sure there's a way to do this already but I haven't smoked 
>enough to discover it. th'other half doesn't like me burning the 'erb trumpet.

The P3 is a kinda organic creature that is constantly edited. It's
both a strength and a weakness. My musical other half is forever
wanting tracks to start off the same but I'm forever changing stuff. 

I guess I can do sysex backups and I can also transmit the output of
one P3 to another <g> as workaround. However I don't think it will be
possible to keep everything in an edit buffer in this incarnation -
like the Polymorph - naturally I've asked. 

Some things that are cool and may help - although they use up tracks -
are redirecting events from one track to another. You turn those
tracks on and the changes kick in. It's all realtime modification too
so you can turn the tracks off to revert to normality. I aim to
exploit this a whole lot at my gig next month - especially as it looks
like I may be a solo artist on this one. So the P3 will get a lot more
pre-programming than I usually do to make it interesting...

Paul
---
Paul Nagle / Soft Room Music
Email: paul@softroom.co.uk www.softroom.co.uk
                           www.BogusFocus.com

I haven't even got a P3 yet but I agree with Duncan, let the sequencer
sequence and buy a nice controller to do all that other stuff.
Jez

http://www.modulator-esp.co.uk
http://www.ambientlive.com/awakenings

  -----Original Message-----
  From: ferrograph@aol.com [mailto:ferrograph@aol.com]
  Sent: 19 October 2004 21:31
  To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [analogue-sequencer] Quick question


  << I've been having a look a the possibility of adding midi controller
  functionality to the P3 knobs in play mode. [snip]
  So, if it was a straight choice between these two features, which would
you
  prefer ? >>

  hmm... haven't really used the banks much yet.... don't know what I'd be
  losing.

  but frankly, for all that I can see the usefulness of having RT midi
  controllers available on the p3, as soon as you can adjust one or two
things per
  track, you'll want to do more.

  buy a drehbank, for heaven's sake! 64 knobs! or several of the (cheap)
pocket
  controllers.... or any of the other dozen or so fully-configurable midi
  control surfaces that can do all that boring stuff. you should anyway, if
you are
  using any sort of midi module, because trying to edit parameters
(especially on
  stage) without an external controller is like trying to paint your hallway
  through the letter box.

  there are (surely) more interesting things that the p3's hardware could be
  made to do /to the p3 itself/ instead of tying it up doing things to other
midi
  boxes like this.
  for instance, I would like to be able to use the knobs to transpose a
track
  on-the-fly. or change the length of the current pattern. or alter it's
global
  velocity (a la notron). or gate time (ditto). or scale the randomness of
the
  auxes.... or shift a pattern sideways....

  colin, don't be swayed by this bleating! :-)

  a pocket controller only costs 80 euros & it has 16 assignable knobs. the
p3
  shouldn't be forced to do such dull jobs as midi cc's that aren't
  pattern-dependent.
  there. that's my 2c worth.

  now, what I really want to be able to do is make edits to a pattern while
  it's running, & exit the edit mode without saving the changes. the pattern
would
  only revert to it's original state on a part change or bank change, or if
I go
  back into edit mode & undo whatever I've changed.... (notron again!)
  so, for example, I have a pattern in there that starts off as 16 steps &
then
  gets shortened to 8 steps for a while, but in the meantime I want to edit
  something in another pattern. next time we start the same piece, it should
be
  back at 16 steps. I'm sure there's a way to do this already but I haven't
smoked
  enough to discover it. th'other half doesn't like me burning the 'erb
trumpet.

  d/r.m.i.


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--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, ferrograph@a... wrote:

> for instance, I would like to be able to use the knobs to 
transpose a track 
> on-the-fly. or change the length of the current pattern. or alter 
it's global 
> velocity (a la notron). or gate time (ditto). or scale the 
randomness of the 
> auxes.... or shift a pattern sideways....

Did you now you can do that by grabbing knobs ?
For example, transpose is acheived by grabbing a knob into another 
event that then does an offset note abs.
It takes two auxes to do each of these things, but they can be 
configured per pattern, so touching your knob won't cause offense at 
an inappropriate moment...

Cheers,
Colin f

Well, opinions seem to be divided, so I guess there's little point 
asking for them ;-)

The lack of a pass-thru mode on the knobs is a good point, it could 
make the knob box functionality a little clunky.
On the plus side, I remembered tonight that the P3 CPU has 2k of 
EEPROM up its sleeve. This is entirely unused, so could in fact be 
employed for CC configuration.

I'll add per bank midi channels first, and see how much of a hit on 
code size it is.
Once that's done, I'll revisit the CC transmission, possibly with 
more of a focus on allowing the knobs to dynamically alter current 
pattern settings - that seems like a neat way to save the auxes.

Hans - an event to scale note values MAQ-style is on the TBI list, 
but it needs a multiplication routine that could be rather time 
consuming, we'll see...
Next time I'll pick a CPU with a hardware multiplier.

Cheers,
Colin f

Colin,

> I'll add per bank midi channels first, and see how much of a hit on
> code size it is.

Wohoo!

> Once that's done, I'll revisit the CC transmission, possibly with
> more of a focus on allowing the knobs to dynamically alter current
> pattern settings - that seems like a neat way to save the auxes.

Sounds reasonable.

> Next time I'll pick a CPU with a hardware multiplier.

MegaAVR ;-)

Paul