Analogue-sequencer

> Using the stalwart sequencer Studio Vision Pro, I have had better results 
> than from slowing tempo as the midifile plays, by lengthening of time between 
> sysex events (data strings).
> [...]
> I have no idea why this is,

The only reason I can think of is if the sequencer is also putting out
beat clock.

If I recall correctly (it's been many years since I looked at this
stuff), the MIDI specification allows realtime bytes to be embedded
inside other MIDI messages, including sysex. I don't know whether any
sequencers actually do this, and if they do, I don't know how many
devices would deal with the data properly.

But since you suggest that *increasing* the tempo makes things more
reliable, this is probably a red herring, although I'd still point the
finger at handling of beat clock. A sysex message is (realtime bytes
aside) an atomic piece of data, so if these are being transmitted (or
queued for transmission via some MIDI driver) with a particular
spacing, the underlying beat tempo should be irrelevant.

In other words: I dunno.

-- 

  nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http://www.cassiel.com

>I've updated a lot of synth OS's over the years and the only ones
>I ever had problems with were when they were in mid format.

Hear, hear.

I made an interesting observation about modifying .mid files of sysex data to 
load reliably.

Using the stalwart sequencer Studio Vision Pro, I have had better results 
than from slowing tempo as the midifile plays, by lengthening of time between 
sysex events (data strings).

You'd think this would amount to exactly the same thing, right? Apparently 
not. Doubling the time between strings can get a machine (last couple of ones I 
did were historically cranky Novation units) to swallow the OS feeding, 
whereas halving the tempo didn't.

I have no idea why this is, or whether the distiction applies also to files 
modified in other software sequencers. I imagine it has something to do with 
the rate at which the bytes of individual strings dribble forth. To modify a 
file this way, you have to dig deeper into the available function menus. But if 
tempo-slowing doesn't immediately help, this approach is something to try. To 
maximize the reliability of a .syx file converted to .mid, I'd see what 
playback time becomes in min/sec at a low tempo like 80 or 60 BPM,  change BPM back 
to a faster rate, and then respace the sysex events in the resulting file so 
that it fills the longer time frame.

Another thing to do is add some extra time at the end of the .mid file to be 
sure the last string doesn't get clipped.


--Amanda
  SynthSights! "it's not about the gear"
  Come join us! Info. at: www.synthsights.net

 _                                   www.cikira.com
|_) _  _||\/| _  _ ._         www.redmoon-music.com
| \(/_(_||  |(_)(_)| | ~~~ evolutionary electronica

> I made an interesting observation about modifying .mid files 
> of sysex data to 
> load reliably.
> 
> Using the stalwart sequencer Studio Vision Pro, I have had 
> better results 
> than from slowing tempo as the midifile plays, by lengthening 
> of time between 
> sysex events (data strings).
> 
> You'd think this would amount to exactly the same thing, 
> right? Apparently 
> not. Doubling the time between strings can get a machine 
> (last couple of ones I 
> did were historically cranky Novation units) to swallow the 
> OS feeding, 
> whereas halving the tempo didn't.

Tracks within midi files can count time between events in two ways - clock
ticks based on tempo, or linear time frames.
If a track containing the sysex data is written using linear time, changing
the tempo wont increase the delay between blocks.

The P3 firmware midi file uses a tempo based timing, and enough ticks
between each sysex block to give 100ms delay at 120bpm, so changing the
tempo will change the delay, if required.
It seems like it's easier to find an app that will play back midi files on
any given OS than .syx files, and tonight's build of P3 Tools can read a
.mid file.
So I was thinking of just uploading midi files, unless it causes anyone
problems.

Cheers,
Colin f

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, Paul Nagle <softroom@b...> 
wrote:
> Colin f wrote:
> 
> >
> >So I was thinking of just uploading midi files, unless it causes 
anyone
> >problems.
> >  
> >
> I'd personally prefer sysex as an option: it will save me having to 
load 
> a sequencer jobby on my PC; plus I can reliably update both my P3s 
at 
> once with MIDI-Ox with no glitches, no pratting around with tempo 
etc. 

> Just my preference.
> 
> Paul
> 
> Everybody has their own preferences I think, there is no
> wrong or right about it, you either load an OS update
> using .syx or .mid files, I generally use both when req'd.

Colin f wrote:

>
>So I was thinking of just uploading midi files, unless it causes anyone
>problems.
>  
>
I'd personally prefer sysex as an option: it will save me having to load 
a sequencer jobby on my PC; plus I can reliably update both my P3s at 
once with MIDI-Ox with no glitches, no pratting around with tempo etc. 
Just my preference.

Paul

-- 
---
Paul Nagle / Soft Room Music / Bogus Focus Records / Binar / Headshock / The Joint Intelligence Committee
        www.softroom.co.uk / www.BogusFocus.com / www.JointIntelligenceCommittee.com

> I'd personally prefer sysex as an option: it will save me 
> having to load 
> a sequencer jobby on my PC; plus I can reliably update both my P3s at 
> once with MIDI-Ox with no glitches, no pratting around with 
> tempo etc. 
> Just my preference.

No need for a sequencer.
In Windows XP, Media Player will play midi files no problem.
You set your default interface for midi playback to the midi output you have
P3 on once (in Control Panel, Sounds and Audio Devices, Audio, Midi Music
Playback), then double-clicking on a mid file should immediately transmit it
to your P3 without further ado.
The tempo in the mid files will be preset to ensure correct reception by P3.
I'll test the idea with the next build and see what happens.

One thing I did discover though - setting the gap between sysex blocks in
SYX2MIDI sets the time between the F0 headers of each block.
Since each block takes just over 50ms to transmit, a 'gap' of 100ms really
means a gap of 50ms.
I'm going to do some testing on my 18 and 24 MHz P3s to see what the average
time between blocks is with handshaking, then I'll know for sure what the
gap should be.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

How many U of rackspace does the production P3 take up?


R

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005, Colin f wrote:

> So I was thinking of just uploading midi files, unless it causes anyone
> problems.

I'll join in with the "I'd like sysex too" chorus... it works, it's always
worked (well, except for once), and it's relatively simple. If something's
not broken I don't want to try to fix it...

bleep.
out.

---
http://leichenfeld.iuma.com
http://thirdwavecollective.com

Colin f wrote:

>No need for a sequencer.
>In Windows XP, Media Player will play midi files no problem.
>You set your default interface for midi playback to the midi output you have
>P3 on once (in Control Panel, Sounds and Audio Devices, Audio, Midi Music
>Playback), then double-clicking on a mid file should immediately transmit it
>to your P3 without further ado.
>  
>
I guess.  I suppose I've developed a very old-fashioned approach to 
computers, having lost so many hours to faffing with them: when I have 
something that works, I am reluctant to change if the only goal is to 
achieve the same end result.

Either way, I'm sure I'll cope... hopefully I still update both P3s at 
once this way?

Paul


-- 
---
Paul Nagle / Soft Room Music / Bogus Focus Records / Binar / Headshock / The Joint Intelligence Committee
        www.softroom.co.uk / www.BogusFocus.com / www.JointIntelligenceCommittee.com

> How many U of rackspace does the production P3 take up?

4U.

The rear connector panel is recessed, so you don't lose a U to cables
either.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

> I'll join in with the "I'd like sysex too" chorus... it 
> works, it's always
> worked (well, except for once), and it's relatively simple. 
> If something's
> not broken I don't want to try to fix it...

My main concern with using two file formats is that I have to make sure I
update both at the same time.
The other concern will be getting lots of emails saying, "which file format
should I use ?"
I suppose if I automate it sufficiently, it shouldn't be a problem.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

this picture on the website  http://www.p3sequencer.com/gallery/p3-1001-r2.jpg  appears to show 6 midi ports - does that mean there are two ins?? If so are they routable, or do they automatically merge?

Richard

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> this picture on the website
> http://www.p3sequencer.com/gallery/p3-1001-r2.jpg appears to show 6
> midi ports - does that mean there are two ins??

Erm, is your question not answered by

	http://www.p3sequencer.com/gallery/p3-1001-r1.jpg

?

-- 

  nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http://www.cassiel.com

sysex as i dont have a midi sequencer on the pc no more so would be a pain
paul darlow

  On Sat, 13 Aug 2005, Colin f wrote:

  > So I was thinking of just uploading midi files, unless it causes anyone
  > problems.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]