Analogue-sequencer

This is a question regarding slaving a software sequencer to both my
P3 sequencer and 
Akai MPC 60 simultaneously...

Here's what I want to happen...

The Ability to have my MPC drive the P3 and software sequencer tempo
AND use the MPC's 
fast forward and rewind capabilities to move around the computer
track and start the 
sequence from any location 

In an ideal world this is how it would work...

MPC sends MIDI clock to both the P3 and Logic...problem solved

However...

it seems that the MPC 60 only sends MIDI clock on one output at a
time (which seems 
pretty ridiculous since it has 4 outputs

Does anyone know whether modern MPC's have fixed this??? or does
anyone have any 
ideas on how to make this work...

Am I correct in assuming that for this to work the MPC HAS to be the
master...since 
pressing run on the P3 will  send everything back to Bar 1

as always your help is appreciated,

Paris Lee

> Well, moving around the sequence location in Logic sounds like MMC (midi
> machine control) to me, which is *totally* different than just syncing to
> midi clock. MMC is what controls location and such, it's more like time
> code than a clock signal.

MMC is a control protocol for recording devices (stop, play, rewind
etc.). It does have a facility for setting location in terms of
timecode, but as far as I know it doesn't offer running sync. Perhaps
you're thinking of MTC (MIDI Time Code), which is basically a MIDI
encoding of SMPTE.

> Well, you're running logic so I'll assume you're on a Mac. It seems that
> what you need is some sort of fancy-dancy midi interface/patchbay/merger
> ala the MOTU Midi Express XT or something like it.

The MOTU boxes are a bit funny in terms of where they'll route MIDI
clock sync; they'll send timing bytes to everything, but SPP has to be
routed in a particular way. I can't remember how they handle MTC.

(Conversely, Performer thinks it's talking to a MOTU box even when it
isn't, and expects this behaviour, so getting beat clock from
Performer out through a non-MOTU box is a real pain.)

> Nice to know there's someone else out there who is fond of ridiculously
> complicated MIDI setups! :)

I used to be (four MIDI routers at once was our record for a live rig,
two of them MIDI Time Pieces), but, sometimes, life's too short...

	-- N.

-- 

  nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http://www.cassiel.com

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005, DJ Paris Lee wrote:

> The Ability to have my MPC drive the P3 and software sequencer tempo
> AND use the MPC's
> fast forward and rewind capabilities to move around the computer
> track and start the
> sequence from any location

Well, moving around the sequence location in Logic sounds like MMC (midi
machine control) to me, which is *totally* different than just syncing to
midi clock. MMC is what controls location and such, it's more like time
code than a clock signal. I'm not familiar with MPCs, but my MC-909 has FF
and REW and those functions jump to different bars in the pattern. I'm not
sure, but I would assume that if this is the case for you, that a "start"
message rather than a "continue" message is sent, meaning that your P3 and
computer would start at their start points.

> it seems that the MPC 60 only sends MIDI clock on one output at a
> time (which seems
> pretty ridiculous since it has 4 outputs

That *is* completely ridiculous.

> Does anyone know whether modern MPC's have fixed this??? or does
> anyone have any
> ideas on how to make this work...

Well, you're running logic so I'll assume you're on a Mac. It seems that
what you need is some sort of fancy-dancy midi interface/patchbay/merger
ala the MOTU Midi Express XT or something like it. That's what I would use
if I had a Mac. As it is, I get by without certain nice-to-have control
options in my MIDI setup (which is much like yours) and abuse of THRU
ports. :)

One day though!

> Am I correct in assuming that for this to work the MPC HAS to be the
> master...since
> pressing run on the P3 will  send everything back to Bar 1

Well, that's *probably* configurable. I've never had occasion to mess with
it myself, but there is a *lot* of configuration around how the P3
responds to run, stop, and midi clock messages.

Nice to know there's someone else out there who is fond of ridiculously
complicated MIDI setups! :)

bleep.
out.

---
http://leichenfeld.iuma.com
http://thirdwavecollective.com

In the most recent P3 release firmware, if you use FUNC + RUN instead of
just RUN, P3 will send a CONTINUE MIDI message rather than a START.
It does not actually continue from where it last stopped - it resets to the
start as usual, but the sending of a CONTINUE should prevent 
software sequencers from re-starting at the beginning when you want to
restart from the beginning of a specific bar.
So you may get away with using P3 as master.

This is an undocumented feature because I may decide to remove it, unless it
turns out to be useful...

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

I find the 'continue' option most useful. It enables me to use the P3
as a master and record the output to a hardware sequencer (Roland MC-80).

I for one would like the facility retained.

Thanks
Roger


--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "Colin f" <colin@c...> wrote:
>  
> > This was my feature request to allow me to use the P3 to 
> > control Reason.
> 
> Because it didn't turn out to be useful in this case is why this
feature is

> not permanent.
> FUNC + RUN might be re-assigned to something else before it becomes a
> documented feature, so if it does turn out to be useful, let me know.
> 
> Best regards,
> Colin Fraser
> Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
> http://www.sequentix.com

> In the most recent P3 release firmware, if you use FUNC + RUN instead
> of just RUN, P3 will send a CONTINUE MIDI message rather than a START.

This was my feature request to allow me to use the P3 to control Reason.
Thus one should be able to loop Reason's sequencer within its loop points
without having to go back to the beginning of the song everytime you hit
RUN. The big snag to this idea is that under midi-clock control Reason
stupidly does not allow manual control over the cursor at all. So you
can't reset Reason to the loop start point by hand. It would be more
helpful to automatically return to the start loop point on RUN, if the
cursor is between the loop points, and not to the start of the whole
song. But there you go...

So continue [Func+Run] does indeed allow Reason to continue, but from
where it left only and not where you tell it to.

I have to thank Colin for putting this in to try it out. Shame I can't
get the Propellerheads to implement new features that quick.

I haven't tried it with Ableton Live yet, but Live sends midi clock out
so it can act as a master.

Tony

www.oakleysound.com

> This was my feature request to allow me to use the P3 to 
> control Reason.

Because it didn't turn out to be useful in this case is why this feature is
not permanent.
FUNC + RUN might be re-assigned to something else before it becomes a
documented feature, so if it does turn out to be useful, let me know.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com