Analogue-sequencer

Folks,

I've uploaded the latest beta to Yahoo files for comments.
The main change is the addition of polyphonic realtime record, which 
will record chords to the main note and any auxes assigned to 'aux 
note abs' or 'aux note rel' (no ...Xd yet).

This is not the final form poly record will take - one issue being 
that 'aux note abs' is limited to a range of 64 notes, and I'd 
prefer to make it 128. If I change the existing event, then previous 
pattern data will play the wrong notes. This may be fixed by adding 
a new 'aux note abs' event and deprecating the old one, or simply by 
ignoring whingers.

You will need to set up the aux note events on your pattern before 
going into record. This is a bit long-winded, but I'm going to add a 
shortcut method of doing this.
Once you have set up one pattern, it's pretty quick just to edit it, 
and 'Save to' all the other patterns in a track you want to record 
chords on.

Note that you need to play the whole chord for a given step at the 
same time - extra notes played on the next pass will be written to 
the primary note first, so there is no over-dubbing of additional 
notes.
This gives an interesting effect...
If you use 'del' to clear steps, the GATE is turned off, and any aux 
notes are deactivated.
But if you just turn the gate off, the aux notes will be left in 
place. They wont sound while the gate is off, but if you record a 
new primary note into the step, they will re-appear.
This is especially useful with 'aux note rel', where changing the 
primary note will then transpose the whole chord.
If you want to choose a particular note in the chord as the primary 
note, the primary note will be the most recently received note - so 
play the root fractionally after the other notes.

I have also changed record FTS behaviour, after a considered debate 
with Mr Nagle, so blame him if you don't like it.

Previously, setting record FTS 'off' meant Xd was set on each step 
recorded.
Paul argued that this is not 'FTS', this is 'set Xd'.
The way we agreed it should work is that setting record FTS 'on' 
will record the notes to the pattern forced-to-scale.
Leaving it off will record the notes as played, and will no longer 
set Xd.
If that doesn't suit you, let me know, as I can easily add a 
further 'set Xd' option to reproduce the old behaviour.

There are other changes I want to make concerning aux notes, but 
I'll save that for later...

Other changes include different initialised bank acc conf settings, 
with velo and auxD limits set to 127.

I've been hoping to post a 'release' version of the OS for a while 
now, and get manuals printed for recent P3 owners, so my apologies 
for dragging it on every time I think of some new feature.
Poly record will be the last new thing in v3.1.006, I promise.
Then I'll start on .007 ;-)

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

>>Note that you need to play the whole chord for a given step at the  
same time - extra notes played on the next pass will be written to 
the primary note first, so there is no over-dubbing of additional 
notes.
This gives an interesting effect... If you use 'del' to clear steps, 
the GATE is turned off, and any aux notes are deactivated.
But if you just turn the gate off, the aux notes will be left in 
place. They wont sound while the gate is off, but if you record a 
new primary note into the step, they will re-appear.
This is especially useful with 'aux note rel', where changing the 
primary note will then transpose the whole chord.
If you want to choose a particular note in the chord as the primary 
note, the primary note will be the most recently received note - so 
play the root fractionally after the other notes.<<

got it- I think. that sounds handy, actually. 
but why is the "primary" (what I was calling the "root") the last 
note played? can't it always be the lowest note played instead? or 
the first? 
I'm going to be forever chasing root notes out of the auxes & back 
onto the master step where they belong, unless I learn to roll my 
chords down from the top consistently.

can you make it record only into the auxes, after the root notes are 
installed on their right steps? so I could put the roots in, & then 
add the partials on the second pass when I've worked out what they 
should be? :-)

& what about copying/pasting from a pattern into another pattern's 
auxiliary notes? is there a way using "grab" or "push"?

duncan.

> but why is the "primary" (what I was calling the "root") the last 
> note played? can't it always be the lowest note played instead? or 
> the first? 

It's the last note for mono compatiblity, specifically so that the recording
of legato notes behaves the same way as it did up to now.
I was considering implementing two different assignment algorithms, but
decided to wait and see what people make of the current one.

> can you make it record only into the auxes, after the root notes are 
> installed on their right steps? so I could put the roots in, & then 
> add the partials on the second pass when I've worked out what they 
> should be? :-)

Not yet, but that's an interesting suggestion.
 
> & what about copying/pasting from a pattern into another pattern's 
> auxiliary notes? is there a way using "grab" or "push"?

You can't gain extra notes this way - the playback engine only supports 4
aux notes, so grabbing them from another track will just over-write any
values in the destination pattern.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

> > & what about copying/pasting from a pattern into another pattern's 
> > auxiliary notes? is there a way using "grab" or "push"?
> 
> You can't gain extra notes this way - the playback engine only 
supports 4 aux notes, so grabbing them from another track will just 
over-write any values in the destination pattern.<<

ah- no, this was suggested as an alternative way of entering the notes. 
you'd only use the other pattern (in an adjacent track) temporarily to 
enter the partials, then copy them across into the auxes of y'r main 
chord pattern & recycle the other pattern/track afterwards.
of no use live, this last, but might make life easier in preparing such 
sequences off-line, as it were.

so I'd record my roots into track 8/pattern 1 as regular notes, then 
immediately arm track 7/pattern one to record the first lot of 
partials. I'd then copy these notes into aux A on track 8/pattern 1. 
then I'd re-use track 7 /pattern 1 for either the next lot of partials 
or something else on a different channel if the chords were complete.

for anyone having trouble getting the chords to go in right (because of 
wobbly laying technique or whatever), this might have an advantage. I 
also think it would be a good way to build up polyphonic percussion 
parts- a drum at a time, & in their own patterns until you're happy 
with them- before combining them into a single track for playback & 
further modification using the auxes.

what?

duncan.

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 11:04:31 -0000, "ferrograph632"
<ferrograph@aol.com> wrote:

>for anyone having trouble getting the chords to go in right (because of 
>wobbly laying technique or whatever), this might have an advantage. I 
>also think it would be a good way to build up polyphonic percussion 
>parts- a drum at a time, & in their own patterns until you're happy 
>with them- before combining them into a single track for playback & 
>further modification using the auxes.

I tried the current method for playing in drum patterns and it's ace.
As I would typically only have three drums being hit at once, I found
it possible to get entire patterns into P3 tracks very easily. It's
probably still cool to keep kicks and maybe hi hats separate but
layering other percussion works well. And it never really seems to
matter which note is "root". 

The first time I knocked in some three note chords then had an
accumulator mangling note release time I started to get quite excited.
Seriously, I think this is gonna be a killer feature - and it's
something I initially didn't get too excited about when Colin
mentioned it. Of course I can remember when entering notes via MIDI
didn't seem too exciting and now I use it all the time!

Paul

---
Paul Nagle - Joint Intelligence Committee - www.JointIntelligenceCommittee.com
                           SoftRoom Music - www.softroom.co.uk

>>it never really seems to matter which note is "root".<<

ah, c'mon.... you can't mean that, shirley? I'm a bass player, f'r
heaven's sakes. I need to be sure where the root notes are first,
especially when I'm transcribing from tab or chord changes written on
the back of an envelope by our guitarist.
I'll give it a try like this, but I can guarantee I'll end up with a
D# on a step & the corresponding middle C tucked away in an aux......

& I still think that the best way to write a drum part (rather than
let one happen almost by accident) is to use separate tracks to create
the parts & then "merge" them (like on an mmt8) by copying notes from
one track into another track's aux, thus freeing up the first track
for something else.

but yes, praise be to colin for giving this to us at all. consider for
a moment where this same box was a year ago, or two, & that he's
spawned in the meanwhile also.

home now. some sort of ikea nonsense waiting for me to unflatpack.
b*st*rd.

d.

> >>it never really seems to matter which note is "root".<<
> 
> ah, c'mon.... you can't mean that, shirley? I'm a bass player, f'r
> heaven's sakes. I need to be sure where the root notes are first,
> especially when I'm transcribing from tab or chord changes written on
> the back of an envelope by our guitarist.
> I'll give it a try like this, but I can guarantee I'll end up with a
> D# on a step & the corresponding middle C tucked away in an aux......

Well, I may still change the way notes are ordered in poly record.
I've spotted a couple of issues that can crop up with the current code, due
to a combination of the way tied steps are handled and the way notes are
assigned to the auxes. This manifests itself as tied notes of a chord ending
before you expect.
Re-ordering recorded poly notes in ascending order might make life easier.
Even if it doesn't need to be done on the fly, I could always add a pattern
edit 'macro' for it, along the same lines as those that will assign all four
auxes to aux notes. 

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

Hi Colin,
with  3.1.006beta32 installed I recognized sometimes the P3 turns to  
a stuck/freeze/crash mode when its running in midi clock slave mode  
to logic 7.1.1 / OSX 10.4.3 here, I have to switch it off/on again no  
make it  work again. any idea what that could be ?
When it's stuck none of the 16 button LEDs are 'on' any more and the  
parameter display is empty suddenly, of course all midi thru is not  
working any more.

my midi connection is as follows, I use a midi merger to merge the  
midi clock and my masterkeyboard together on P3 input, also have FTS  
activated for midi 'thru' as I somtimes
add 'live' notes on top of already playing patterns.

midi chain:
masterkeyboard (only, note, AT, CC used, no active sensing sended) >  
midi merger >P3input/3midi out A > MT4 in
MT4 midi interface out > midi merger > P3 input / P3midi out A > MT4 in


cheers,
henry




Am 18.11.2005 um 00:21 schrieb Colin f:

>
> > >>it never really seems to matter which note is "root".<<
> >
> > ah, c'mon.... you can't mean that, shirley? I'm a bass player, f'r
> > heaven's sakes. I need to be sure where the root notes are first,
> > especially when I'm transcribing from tab or chord changes  
> written on
> > the back of an envelope by our guitarist.
> > I'll give it a try like this, but I can guarantee I'll end up with a
> > D# on a step & the corresponding middle C tucked away in an  
> aux......
>
> Well, I may still change the way notes are ordered in poly record.
> I've spotted a couple of issues that can crop up with the current  
> code, due
> to a combination of the way tied steps are handled and the way  
> notes are
> assigned to the auxes. This manifests itself as tied notes of a  
> chord ending
> before you expect.
> Re-ordering recorded poly notes in ascending order might make life  
> easier.
> Even if it doesn't need to be done on the fly, I could always add a  
> pattern
> edit 'macro' for it, along the same lines as those that will assign  
> all four
> auxes to aux notes.
>
> Best regards,
> Colin Fraser
> Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
> http://www.sequentix.com
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  Visit your group "analogue-sequencer" on the web.
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  analogue-sequencer-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, henry <audio@m...> wrote:
>
> Hi Colin,
> with  3.1.006beta32 installed I recognized sometimes the P3 turns to  
> a stuck/freeze/crash mode when its running in midi clock slave mode  
> to logic 7.1.1 / OSX 10.4.3 here, I have to switch it off/on again no  
> make it  work again. any idea what that could be ?
> midi chain:
> masterkeyboard (only, note, AT, CC used, no active sensing sended) >  
> midi merger >P3input/3midi out A > MT4 in
> MT4 midi interface out > midi merger > P3 input / P3midi out A > MT4 in

Henry-

I sometimes see the same thing on my setup (Digital Performer, MOTU
MTP AV) when the MIDI is looping back. It looks like you've got the P3
looping back into the MT4 and the MT4 is going to the in of the P3.
Check Logic out to see if a MIDI thru is happening there or if a MIDI
channel is both recording and playing at the same time.

To double check, you can pull the output from the P3 to the MT4 and
see if the behavior persists. If not, then you've got a MIDI loopback
issue somewhere.

-Jim
www.touchxtone.com

> > with  3.1.006beta32 installed I recognized sometimes the P3 
> turns to  
> > a stuck/freeze/crash mode when its running in midi clock 
> slave mode  

> I sometimes see the same thing on my setup (Digital Performer, MOTU
> MTP AV) when the MIDI is looping back.

A loop would certainly cause trouble.
The user interface code has the lowest priority, with the MIDI handling top
and sequence engine second.
So a MIDI loop will cause the CPU to spend all its time handling MIDI data,
with no time to do any UI.

I'll look at adding in some code to detect the MIDI saturation that would
occur with a loop, and maybe have it auto-disable the MIDI thru and display
a warning message.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

> A midi loop happend to me on installation of P3 but then I 
> can see it  
> clearly in logic as well and the P3 has returned to operate
> normally as soon the loop was disconnected.

So in this case you tried disconnecting the P3 MIDI in, and it stays locked
?
Does it happen in the middle of playback/record, switching between
play/record, during start/stop, or just randomly ?
If you could find a course of action that consistently causes a freeze,
it'll be much easier to identify the problem.
Has anyone else seen a freeze with b32 ?

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

Hm, I think I only get a midi loop when I set logics output to a ext.  
midi device
but I feed the AU instruments with the P3/masterkeyboard midi output  
99% of the time,
or to my midi CV/gate adapter
also have no special 'logic environment' stuff activated.
so i think its maybe just starting/stopping logic frequently and then  
sometimes the P3 is in that freezed state.

A midi loop happend to me on installation of P3 but then I can see it  
clearly in logic as well and the P3 has returned to operate
normally as soon the loop was disconnected. This was all with a  
previous version of 3.1.006beta(the one my P3 shipped) but the new  
chord feature in beta32 made me upgrade to that version. maybe same  
problem would have happend with the previous 3.1.006 OS installed as  
well but I haven't noticed that during the first 2 weeks with my P3  
now since updated it happens 3-4 times a day so I thought to post the  
issue for investigating/discussion.


cheers,
h.

Am 28.11.2005 um 09:59 schrieb Colin f:

>
> > > with  3.1.006beta32 installed I recognized sometimes the P3
> > turns to
> > > a stuck/freeze/crash mode when its running in midi clock
> > slave mode
>
> > I sometimes see the same thing on my setup (Digital Performer, MOTU
> > MTP AV) when the MIDI is looping back.
>
> A loop would certainly cause trouble.
> The user interface code has the lowest priority, with the MIDI  
> handling top
> and sequence engine second.
> So a MIDI loop will cause the CPU to spend all its time handling  
> MIDI data,
> with no time to do any UI.
>
> I'll look at adding in some code to detect the MIDI saturation that  
> would
> occur with a loop, and maybe have it auto-disable the MIDI thru and  
> display
> a warning message.
>
> Best regards,
> Colin Fraser
> Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
> http://www.sequentix.com
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Colin,
Am 28.11.2005 um 10:32 schrieb Colin f:

>
> > A midi loop happend to me on installation of P3 but then I
> > can see it
> > clearly in logic as well and the P3 has returned to operate
> > normally as soon the loop was disconnected.
>
> So in this case you tried disconnecting the P3 MIDI in, and it  
> stays locked
> ?

from what I remember no, but I try again to verify and post if that  
cures the problem.


> Does it happen in the middle of playback/record, switching between
> play/record, during start/stop, or just randomly ?

more randomly during work when all is playing nice i dont watch the  
P3 all time, if I hit the keys then I just recognize 'oh stuck again'

> If you could find a course of action that consistently causes a  
> freeze,
> it'll be much easier to identify the problem.

unfortunately I can't simply force it to happen with some start/stop  
actions here, I' guess I'd recognize if it would be a easy reproduceable
I look further if I could track that problem down.

> Has anyone else seen a freeze with b32 ?
>
> Best regards,
> Colin Fraser
> Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
> http://www.sequentix.com
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Sampler	Electronic instrument	Synthesizer
> Synthesizer music	Electronic music	Midi sequencer
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  Visit your group "analogue-sequencer" on the web.
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Who is general failure? And what is he doing on my harddisc?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Colion,
it just happened again, p3 definitely stays locked wether midi in is  
connected or disconnected.
I'll let it run on another midi output (RME HDSP digiface) and  
without a merger in between and see if it still freezes...


henry


Am 28.11.2005 um 10:32 schrieb Colin f:

>
> So in this case you tried disconnecting the P3 MIDI in, and it  
> stays locked
> ?

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-----------
Who is general failure? And what is he doing on my harddisc?

Hi Henry,
 
> it just happened again, p3 definitely stays locked wether midi in is  
> connected or disconnected.

I did some testing of P3s response to MIDI loops last night, and it should
behave itself fine.
All that happens is that any message arriving at the input gets
re-transmitted, and then arrives again, so the MIDI bandwidth is used 100%
and the message constantly reappears in the transmit buffer.
This causes the transmit buffer to fill up as more messages start looping,
and eventually overflow, but once overflowed, the buffer size is reset.

So, P3 should continue with normal operation, except for the fact that MIDI
bandwidth will be completely saturated, and some transmitted messages will
be lost each time the buffer overflows.
I've added code to detect this, so future versions will display a '[i] MIDI
OVERFLOW !' message if this happens.

But this means your crash problem must have another cause.
It could still be loop related, but there would need to be a specific
message that causes a problem.
I'll do some more testing.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

Hi Colin,

for investigation I decided to use some midi filtering from the merge  
box now only going thru is 'note & real data' (clock, start/stop)
filtered out are: PrgCh.,Pbend, Preasue, CC, EXL, common.
I'll report if I still get the freezes with that change.

Of course for any future P3 system update I'll connect it to the RME  
midi ports anyways that are not involved in the merger/filter path.

cheers,
henry

Am 29.11.2005 um 11:37 schrieb Colin f:

> Hi Henry,
>
> > it just happened again, p3 definitely stays locked wether midi in is
> > connected or disconnected.
>
> I did some testing of P3s response to MIDI loops last night, and it  
> should
> behave itself fine.
> All that happens is that any message arriving at the input gets
> re-transmitted, and then arrives again, so the MIDI bandwidth is  
> used 100%
> and the message constantly reappears in the transmit buffer.
> This causes the transmit buffer to fill up as more messages start  
> looping,
> and eventually overflow, but once overflowed, the buffer size is  
> reset.
>
> So, P3 should continue with normal operation, except for the fact  
> that MIDI
> bandwidth will be completely saturated, and some transmitted  
> messages will
> be lost each time the buffer overflows.
> I've added code to detect this, so future versions will display a  
> '[i] MIDI
> OVERFLOW !' message if this happens.
>
> But this means your crash problem must have another cause.
> It could still be loop related, but there would need to be a specific
> message that causes a problem.
> I'll do some more testing.
>
> Best regards,
> Colin Fraser
> Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
> http://www.sequentix.com
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  Visit your group "analogue-sequencer" on the web.
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  analogue-sequencer-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>

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Who is general failure? And what is he doing on my harddisc?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:37:15 -0000, "Colin f" <colin@colinfraser.com>
wrote:

>But this means your crash problem must have another cause.
>It could still be loop related, but there would need to be a specific
>message that causes a problem.
>I'll do some more testing.

If it helps in your diagnostics, I have my two P3s (one master, one
slave) running in sync driving three drum machines and four synths,
various effects processors and an audio looper. It's a MIDI mess of
fairly epic proportions yet I have absolute stability and neither P3
has hung or misbehaved. I don't have a merger or a computer in the
equation though. 
If my slave P3 is starta independently of the master, it runs from its
own internal clock but if it receives a start from the master, it
syncs happily. I have yet to encounter a situation where I want to do
something with clock/MIDI routing that I can't solve.

Paul

---
Paul Nagle - Joint Intelligence Committee - www.JointIntelligenceCommittee.com
                           SoftRoom Music - www.softroom.co.uk

> Ok while not hapening that often since I reduced the midi flow (via  
> filtering some irrelevant data) going thru my midi-merger 
> into the P3  
> it just freezed for first time now,
> Still happens randomly if I run a song and jump to various song  
> positions in Logic7.
> Could it be that the mass of midi clock data which gets 
> re-engaged by  
> logic every time It starts to play after re-positioning will causes  
> the freezes ?

It's hard to say without knowing what Logic is sending out.
I take it you have soft-thru on ?
If so, can you try turning it off, just using record thru when necessary,
and see if you get any freezing that way.


Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

Ok while not hapening that often since I reduced the midi flow (via  
filtering some irrelevant data) going thru my midi-merger into the P3  
it just freezed for first time now,
Still happens randomly if I run a song and jump to various song  
positions in Logic7.
Could it be that the mass of midi clock data which gets re-engaged by  
logic every time It starts to play after re-positioning will causes  
the freezes ?
as I understood paul runs a quite large midi setup but I guess he  
lets it run all time and just sync in the second P3 manually (cool  
feature btw.) and doesn't start midi clock stop many times.

I now will put the P3 to another port without the merging and see igf  
it still freezes then.

cheers,
h.


Am 29.11.2005 um 12:44 schrieb henry:

> Hi Colin,
>
> for investigation I decided to use some midi filtering from the merge
> box now only going thru is 'note & real data' (clock, start/stop)
> filtered out are: PrgCh.,Pbend, Preasue, CC, EXL, common.
> I'll report if I still get the freezes with that change.
>
> Of course for any future P3 system update I'll connect it to the RME
> midi ports anyways that are not involved in the merger/filter path.
>
> cheers,
> henry

Could it be a duff opto coupler, or at least a marginal one?

I don't whether this would cause a P3 to crash, but it can certainly 
confuse the heck out of some keyboards when their optos go bad.

Tony

www.oakleysound.com

>>I have yet to encounter a situation where I want to do something
with clock/MIDI routing that I can't solve.<<

true, perhaps, but too smug. :-)

I run out of channels very quickly unless I set something up to be a
master clock & "peel off" a through from this before too many other
channels get merged in. I want to send a simple clock to things like
jam-man, echo-pro, other effects boxes, other hardware sequencers....
without them picking up on controllers or notes that aren't intended
for them. thus, I have to reserve midi channels (starting at 16 &
working backwards) for things that are never going to play notes &
might only occasionally need a controller. I've had as many as three
merge boxes in a single system (& I'm sure this isn't a record, by any
means) though, because the p3 does such a good job of handling midi, I
have been able to reduce this now.
the doepfer stuff is a real nuisance because it doesn't merge incoming
midi with it's own contribution- straight away you need a through & a
merge. we used to use two maqs at one time... so there was a five-way
merge box....

d.

On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:57:47 -0000, "ferrograph632"
<ferrograph@aol.com> wrote:

>true, perhaps, but too smug. :-)

Hehe, smug the dragon, that's me.

>I run out of channels very quickly unless I set something up to be a
>master clock & "peel off" a through from this before too many other
>channels get merged in. I want to send a simple clock to things like
>jam-man, echo-pro, other effects boxes, other hardware sequencers....
>without them picking up on controllers or notes that aren't intended
>for them. thus, I have to reserve midi channels (starting at 16 &

Me too - I use the raw clock output for this. It's blooming lovely! I
give it to other musos who might want to join in with their
sequencers, arpeggiators, effects etc. with no worries that I'll send
them any notes they aren't expecting. 

>working backwards) for things that are never going to play notes &
>might only occasionally need a controller. I've had as many as three
>merge boxes in a single system (& I'm sure this isn't a record, by any
>means) though, because the p3 does such a good job of handling midi, I
>have been able to reduce this now.
>the doepfer stuff is a real nuisance because it doesn't merge incoming
>midi with it's own contribution- straight away you need a through & a
>merge. we used to use two maqs at one time... so there was a five-way
>merge box....

Sounds like a very complex setup dude. I'm guessing there's a reason
why the raw clock output isn't adequate for your needs? If you're at
the Awakenings gig this Friday we can maybe discuss it over a smoke or
too... :)

Paul

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Paul Nagle - Joint Intelligence Committee - www.JointIntelligenceCommittee.com
                           SoftRoom Music - www.softroom.co.uk