Analogue-sequencer

Folks,

As some of you will no doubt be aware, new European regulations will 
come into effect this year that ban the use of certain materials in 
consumer electronic products (RoHS - Restriction of Hazardous 
Substances).
The effect of this ban on component manufacturers has been that a 
large number of non-compliant parts, which are not considered cost-
effective by the makers to update, are being discontinued.
These parts are mainly in DIP (through-hole) packages, since the 
majority of electronic production now is in surface mount technology.
A number of components currently used in P3 look unlikely to become 
available in RoHS compliant form, so I am re-designing the necessary 
circuitry to continue production.

However, this re-design involves a switch to surface mount parts for 
the mainboard, and after some consideration, I have decided I will 
no longer be making P3 available *in kit form* once this happens.
To continue kit sales, I would need to have different sets of boards 
made for kit and production units, and have them made in RoHS 
compliant (read: more expensive) form.

I will continue to take orders for kits until the end of this month 
(January).
If there are more orders than I have stock of boards, I will look at 
having one last run of through-hole format boards made before 
production switches entirely to SMT.

Please note that ready-built P3 availability will be unaffected.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

"colinfraser_com" <colin@c...> wrote:
>
>
> A number of components currently used in P3 look unlikely to become 
> available in RoHS compliant form, so I am re-designing the necessary 
> circuitry to continue production.
> 

Colin,

In the process of redesigning the P3, are you considering upgrading or
expanding the components to accomodate more faetures?  (I think you
know why I am asking this...;-)

Gary

Greetings,

I *just* joined this mailing list a day or two ago, so that I could learn
more about the P3. I am particularly interested in the kits, so the
announcement of their discontinuation has me slightly disconcerted. :-)

I was hoping to avoid asking newbie questions, but it seems that I will have
to since I need to decide soon whether or not I wish to build the kit.
Apologies to everyone for this, and thank you for your forbearance.

Question 1: do the kits come with schematics?

Question 2: is the software "open source"? I don't necessarily mean that it
adheres rigorously to the GPL or some other completely open specification.
What I mean is, if I purchase the kit, can I obtain the source code for my
own amusement/edification/recompilation for use in my own P3? 

Question 3, for builders of kits in the United States: what is the total
parts cost, more or less? I realize this varies with choices of panels,
pots, knobs, etc.; I'm just looking for a ballpark estimate (as we say in
this country).

Question 4: I personally would prefer endless rotary encoders rather than
potentiometers. I see that there has been some discussion of this in the
past. What is the feasibility for a kit builder to convert their unit to
encoders? I can do some amount of digital circuit design, can lay out my own
PCBs, write microcontroller firmware, etc. (To some extent this hinges on
the answers to questions 1 and 2.)

I think that covers it, at least for starters. Thanks, everyone. 

--Adam

Glad I received my kit purchase then!!
Thanks for the heads up, if I know anyone else who wanted to purchase the kit I'll tell thme to hurry up!

-JC

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: colinfraser_com 
  To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:41 AM
  Subject: [analogue-sequencer] Important: P3 Kits to be discontinued


  Folks,

  As some of you will no doubt be aware, new European regulations will 
  come into effect this year that ban the use of certain materials in 
  consumer electronic products (RoHS - Restriction of Hazardous 
  Substances).
  The effect of this ban on component manufacturers has been that a 
  large number of non-compliant parts, which are not considered cost-
  effective by the makers to update, are being discontinued.
  These parts are mainly in DIP (through-hole) packages, since the 
  majority of electronic production now is in surface mount technology.
  A number of components currently used in P3 look unlikely to become 
  available in RoHS compliant form, so I am re-designing the necessary 
  circuitry to continue production.

  However, this re-design involves a switch to surface mount parts for 
  the mainboard, and after some consideration, I have decided I will 
  no longer be making P3 available *in kit form* once this happens.
  To continue kit sales, I would need to have different sets of boards 
  made for kit and production units, and have them made in RoHS 
  compliant (read: more expensive) form.

  I will continue to take orders for kits until the end of this month 
  (January).
  If there are more orders than I have stock of boards, I will look at 
  having one last run of through-hole format boards made before 
  production switches entirely to SMT.

  Please note that ready-built P3 availability will be unaffected.

  Best regards,
  Colin Fraser
  Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
  http://www.sequentix.com







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I *just* joined this mailing list a day or two ago, so that I 
> could learn
> more about the P3. I am particularly interested in the kits, so the
> announcement of their discontinuation has me slightly 
> disconcerted. :-)

It's a feeling you may get used to if you're doing much electronic work.
I've just found my usual supplier doesn't even carry 16 pin DIP sockets any
longer...

> Question 1: do the kits come with schematics?

Schematics are available from the Sequentix site.
Come to think of it, they might not be quite up to date, so I'll make a note
to check.
But schematics are freely available.
 
> Question 2: is the software "open source"?
 
No, the source is not available.

> Question 3, for builders of kits in the United States: what 
> is the total
> parts cost, more or less? I realize this varies with choices 
> of panels,
> pots, knobs, etc.; I'm just looking for a ballpark estimate 
> (as we say in
> this country).

I leave that one hopefully for a recent US builder with his credit card
statement handy...

> Question 4: I personally would prefer endless rotary encoders 
> rather than
> potentiometers. I see that there has been some discussion of 
> this in the
> past. What is the feasibility for a kit builder to convert 
> their unit to
> encoders? I can do some amount of digital circuit design, can 
> lay out my own
> PCBs, write microcontroller firmware, etc. (To some extent 
> this hinges on
> the answers to questions 1 and 2.)

The current pot scanning hardware has a latch to select which pot is to be
read, a line to strobe the analogue to digital convertor to start
conversion, and another to read the value.
It would be possible to use a PIC microcontroller in place of the A to D
convertor circuit to emulate pots using rotary encoders.
This would need some software support to provide the encoder processor with
the current positions of the pots it's going to emulate, but that could be
done by writing the current 'position' value to the A to D convertor address
when starting each 'conversion' - this address is not used in the existing
hardware, so a write to it would have no effect.
This is not a project I have time to deal with myself, but I'd be happy to
advise on it for anyone desperate for encoders...

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

> In the process of redesigning the P3, are you considering upgrading or
> expanding the components to accomodate more faetures?  (I think you
> know why I am asking this...;-)

The thought had crossed my mind.
Whether I do or not depends on a number of factors.
I don't promise anything until it's sure to happen.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

Good Colin. I am one of your new fans. Have the P3 since a few weeks.  
Lost all my friends.
But I dont care. I am in love with that machine.

T.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>> Question 3, for builders of kits in the United States: what 
>> is the total
>> parts cost, more or less? I realize this varies with choices 
>> of panels,
>> pots, knobs, etc.; I'm just looking for a ballpark estimate 
>> (as we say in
>> this country).
>
>I leave that one hopefully for a recent US builder with his credit card
>statement handy...

Still looking for all the parts, so far ive spent around 100$ US, but still need a few more items...

Any other US builders able to find all the parts from 1 or a few sources, Ive been hunting around all over the place, but have found most pieces....
When I am done I'll get some exact numbers, and from what sources...

-JC

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Colin f 
  To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:35 PM
  Subject: RE: Newbie questions in RE: [analogue-sequencer] Important: P3 Kits to be discontinued



  > I *just* joined this mailing list a day or two ago, so that I 
  > could learn
  > more about the P3. I am particularly interested in the kits, so the
  > announcement of their discontinuation has me slightly 
  > disconcerted. :-)

  It's a feeling you may get used to if you're doing much electronic work.
  I've just found my usual supplier doesn't even carry 16 pin DIP sockets any
  longer...

  > Question 1: do the kits come with schematics?

  Schematics are available from the Sequentix site.
  Come to think of it, they might not be quite up to date, so I'll make a note
  to check.
  But schematics are freely available.

  > Question 2: is the software "open source"?

  No, the source is not available.

  > Question 3, for builders of kits in the United States: what 
  > is the total
  > parts cost, more or less? I realize this varies with choices 
  > of panels,
  > pots, knobs, etc.; I'm just looking for a ballpark estimate 
  > (as we say in
  > this country).

  I leave that one hopefully for a recent US builder with his credit card
  statement handy...

  > Question 4: I personally would prefer endless rotary encoders 
  > rather than
  > potentiometers. I see that there has been some discussion of 
  > this in the
  > past. What is the feasibility for a kit builder to convert 
  > their unit to
  > encoders? I can do some amount of digital circuit design, can 
  > lay out my own
  > PCBs, write microcontroller firmware, etc. (To some extent 
  > this hinges on
  > the answers to questions 1 and 2.)

  The current pot scanning hardware has a latch to select which pot is to be
  read, a line to strobe the analogue to digital convertor to start
  conversion, and another to read the value.
  It would be possible to use a PIC microcontroller in place of the A to D
  convertor circuit to emulate pots using rotary encoders.
  This would need some software support to provide the encoder processor with
  the current positions of the pots it's going to emulate, but that could be
  done by writing the current 'position' value to the A to D convertor address
  when starting each 'conversion' - this address is not used in the existing
  hardware, so a write to it would have no effect.
  This is not a project I have time to deal with myself, but I'd be happy to
  advise on it for anyone desperate for encoders...

  Best regards,
  Colin Fraser
  Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
  http://www.sequentix.com




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks very much for your reply to my questions re the kits. 
	
	It's a feeling you may get used to if you're doing much electronic
work.
	I've just found my usual supplier doesn't even carry 16 pin DIP
sockets any
	longer...

Yeah. I've already realized that SMT is in my DIY future, like it or not. 
	
	Schematics are available from the Sequentix site.
	Come to think of it, they might not be quite up to date, so I'll
make a note
	to check.
	But schematics are freely available.

Okay, I must be blind, because I can't find them.
		
	The current pot scanning hardware has a latch to select which pot is
to be
	read, a line to strobe the analogue to digital convertor to start
	conversion, and another to read the value.
	It would be possible to use a PIC microcontroller in place of the A
to D
	convertor circuit to emulate pots using rotary encoders.

That sounds viable. The obvious approach would be to get the thing up and
running with pots, and then convert it to encoders if I decided that I
couldn't live without them.

--Adam

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "colinfraser_com" <colin@c...> wrote:

> 
> Please note that ready-built P3 availability will be unaffected.
> 

Do you anticipate any change in (1) price or (2) build quality with the ready-built P3s?  I've 
heard surface-mounted pots and buttons are less reliable (but I don't have any 
experience, so this is a naive question).

:: kkonkkrete ::

> Do you anticipate any change in (1) price or (2) build 
> quality with the ready-built P3s?  I've 
> heard surface-mounted pots and buttons are less reliable (but 

The user interface hardware will remain the same - all those parts are
available in RoHS compliant form.
The only board that is definitely changing is the main CPU board, which
holds the vast majority of the components.
The pot boards may need a change to use surface mount 4051s, but the pots
themselves will be the same.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "Colin f" <colin@c...> wrote:

> > Do you anticipate any change in (1) price or (2) build 
> > quality with the ready-built P3s?  I've 
> > heard surface-mounted pots and buttons are less reliable (but 
> 
> The user interface hardware will remain the same - all those parts are
> available in RoHS compliant form.
> The only board that is definitely changing is the main CPU board, which
> holds the vast majority of the components.
> The pot boards may need a change to use surface mount 4051s, but the pots
> themselves will be the same.


Great.  And the price?  I think you mentioned the surface-mounted board would probably 
be more expensive --- will this affect the price of the ready built P3s?

Sorry to be a pain.  Thanks!

> Great.  And the price?  I think you mentioned the 
> surface-mounted board would probably 
> be more expensive --- will this affect the price of the ready 
> built P3s?

I'm hopeful the price will remain the same.
Until I get the revised design completed, and get some quotes for assembly,
I can't say.

Another issue related to cost is that the EU, as well as banning various
materials, is also making manufacturers responsible for the disposal of
electronic waste under rules called WEEE.
The implementation of this directive seems to have been delayed, but when it
comes into force it means:
a) I'll have to put a label on the P3 case showing a little crossed-out
wheelie bin
b) I'll have to bear any costs in having every P3 sold recycled by a
licensed contractor when it reaches the end of its life

Obviously this directive is aimed squarely at disposable consumer electronic
goods like TVs, DVD players and FCPs, but the laws apply to all makers, so I
have to consider what the long term costs of this might be.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com