Analogue-sequencer

I'm hoping someone out there could confirm for me the height of the 
LED spacers for the P3?

The spacers for the 8 3mm LED's are still avialable at rapid by the 
part number on the BOM so unless the part has changed i assume 9.1mm 
is correct.
The spacers for the 5mm leds however is invalid and theres no 
recommendation for a replacement part, i did find an old post of 
colins about someone wanting to change the LED's and he made mention 
of 6.4mm spacers but can someone confirm that is correct?

Thanks
Brett

My full US BOM is located here: http://www.nuxx.net/wiki/Sequentix_P3

For spacers, I ended up using a pair of shorter standoffs, but the ones specified there 
should be just about right.

-Steve


--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "bambam4236" <hotbambam@...> wrote:

>
> I'm hoping someone out there could confirm for me the height of the 
> LED spacers for the P3?
> 
> The spacers for the 8 3mm LED's are still avialable at rapid by the 
> part number on the BOM so unless the part has changed i assume 9.1mm 
> is correct.
> The spacers for the 5mm leds however is invalid and theres no 
> recommendation for a replacement part, i did find an old post of 
> colins about someone wanting to change the LED's and he made mention 
> of 6.4mm spacers but can someone confirm that is correct?
> 
> Thanks
> Brett
>

> The spacers for the 5mm leds however is invalid and theres no 
> recommendation for a replacement part, i did find an old post of 
> colins about someone wanting to change the LED's and he made mention 
> of 6.4mm spacers but can someone confirm that is correct?

Rapid dropped the spacers for the 5mm LEDs, so I stopped using them.
This just meant I had to go back to using a jig to hold all the LEDs at the
right height while they are soldered into position.
You can do something similar using the front panel - put it on a flat
surface, raised up with sheets of card or paper so that an LED fitted into
the panel hole will stick out by the desired amount.
Place all the LEDs in their PCB holes, then mount the PCB to the panel.
The LEDs should all stick out by the same amount, then you can solder the
middle pin on them all, check the heights are even, then solder the rest.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

Hi Colin,

is it possible that the display wears out on the P3 ? I have the P3  
bit more than 9months now I guess.
I recently noticed that the dots have different brightness on teh  
display, the ones that are active in normal usage are slightly darker.
Is this something to expect ? I have some synth displays that don't  
show such behaviour after +10 years but the might use allover less  
characters that P3 shows in different operation states.
the pict attached shows this only in a worse way unfortunately


cheers,
henry





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> is it possible that the display wears out on the P3 ? I have the P3  
> bit more than 9months now I guess.
> I recently noticed that the dots have different brightness on teh  
> display, the ones that are active in normal usage are slightly darker.
> Is this something to expect ? I have some synth displays that don't  
> show such behaviour after +10 years but the might use allover less  
> characters that P3 shows in different operation states.
> the pict attached shows this only in a worse way unfortunately

A few people have seen this behaviour on the PLED displays, so I've been
looking into it.
The light emitting polymers used in the PLED display behave differently to
liquid crystal displays.
It seems that their brightness reduces over time.
The makers quote a brightness half-life of "more than 10,000 hours", which
would mean leaving a pixel turned on 24/7 for over a year would reduce its
brightness by 50%.
Do you leave your P3 switched on all the time ?
It could be that a screen-saver is called for.
Anyone else seeing noticeable degradation of the display ?

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

Am 25.10.2006 um 15:20 schrieb Colin Fraser:

> A few people have seen this behaviour on the PLED displays, so I've  
> been
> looking into it.
> The light emitting polymers used in the PLED display behave  
> differently to
> liquid crystal displays.
> It seems that their brightness reduces over time.
> The makers quote a brightness half-life of "more than 10,000  
> hours", which
> would mean leaving a pixel turned on 24/7 for over a year would  
> reduce its
> brightness by 50%.
> Do you leave your P3 switched on all the time ?
> It could be that a screen-saver is called for.
> Anyone else seeing noticeable degradation of the display ?

hm, I had my P3 on for about 6 weeks constantly over last time but,  
not a year or so...

cheers,
henry





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> hm, I had my P3 on for about 6 weeks constantly over last time but,  
> not a year or so...

In that case it could just be a premature darkening of your module.
Maybe it came from a bad batch, or was exposed to temperatures outside the
specified range.
If it gets to be a problem to read what's there, rather than just a niggle
that some pixels are darker than others, we can look at swapping the display
out.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

Thanks colin and steve for the replies.

I think the standoffs i have coming should be perfect by the sounds 
of it, if not i was just going to do as colin suggested and use the 
case to hold the led's while i solder them to the pcb...i guess if 
the standoffs fit though ill use them for some extra support.

There are few bits to go so hopefully another P3 will come into this 
world this weekend ;) BY the way how do you tell the serial number 
with the kits?

Thanks
Brett

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Fraser" 
<colin@...> wrote:
>
>  
> > The spacers for the 5mm leds however is invalid and theres no 
> > recommendation for a replacement part, i did find an old post of 
> > colins about someone wanting to change the LED's and he made 
mention 
> > of 6.4mm spacers but can someone confirm that is correct?
> 
> Rapid dropped the spacers for the 5mm LEDs, so I stopped using 
them.
> This just meant I had to go back to using a jig to hold all the 
LEDs at the
> right height while they are soldered into position.
> You can do something similar using the front panel - put it on a 
flat
> surface, raised up with sheets of card or paper so that an LED 
fitted into
> the panel hole will stick out by the desired amount.
> Place all the LEDs in their PCB holes, then mount the PCB to the 
panel.
> The LEDs should all stick out by the same amount, then you can 
solder the
> middle pin on them all, check the heights are even, then solder 
the rest.

> 
> Best regards,
> Colin Fraser
> Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
> http://www.sequentix.com
>

> BY the way how do you tell the serial number 
> with the kits?

If it's a kit sold since April '05, the serial number will be displayed
during the boot sequence.
Older units will show #//// unless I get round to doing a firmware image for
a serial number updater, but the number should be on the CPU label.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

I mentioned this last time we met Colin, my display has the same 
problems - and It has been left on a long time. This is a 
characteristic of OLED displays. I am fortunate to be working on these 
at the minute at work (OSRAM displays) Time to half brightness has 
been the biggest issue for a long time with OLED. New processes have 
improved this - what happens in factories now is that they burn them 
in during production as the curve is quite steep when they are new. 
Screen savers or moving the text around has been discussed (only works 
with graphics modules though).

Best thing long term is to turn the brightness down when new - or turn 
the display off after a period of time.

LCD's with LED backlight are still the best choice for lifetime - 
despite viewing angle issues and contrast.
VFD's also suffer the same degradation over time that OLED suffers...

mark

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Fraser" <colin@...>
wrote:
>
>  
> > is it possible that the display wears out on the P3 ? I have the P3  
> > bit more than 9months now I guess.
> > I recently noticed that the dots have different brightness on teh  
> > display, the ones that are active in normal usage are slightly darker.
> > Is this something to expect ? I have some synth displays that don't  
> > show such behaviour after +10 years but the might use allover less  
> > characters that P3 shows in different operation states.
> > the pict attached shows this only in a worse way unfortunately
> 
> A few people have seen this behaviour on the PLED displays, so I've been
> looking into it.
> The light emitting polymers used in the PLED display behave
differently to
> liquid crystal displays.
> It seems that their brightness reduces over time.
> The makers quote a brightness half-life of "more than 10,000 hours",
which
> would mean leaving a pixel turned on 24/7 for over a year would
reduce its
> brightness by 50%.
> Do you leave your P3 switched on all the time ?
> It could be that a screen-saver is called for.
> Anyone else seeing noticeable degradation of the display ?
> 
> Best regards,
> Colin Fraser
> Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
> http://www.sequentix.com
>



Hi,

yes,my pled has this halflight pixeldots too.i run the p3 all the time
and the display shows this behaviour after aprox.7 weeks on.


Tom


www.myspace.com/profondo

On 26 Oct 2006, at 12:56, meadowfield1 wrote:

> LCD's with LED backlight are still the best choice for lifetime -

Hmm; I have two Wavestation A/D's which would disagree with you.

(Or would they be old enough that they're using some kind of  
flourescent backlight...?)

	-- N.


   nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http:// 
www.cassiel.com

> I have two Wavestation A/D's

I think these would have EL (electroluminescent) panels and not LEDs. 
The EL panels don't last that long either, although my D50 is still 
going strong.

Tony

On 26 Oct 2006, at 15:14, Oakley Sound wrote:

> I think these would have EL (electroluminescent) panels and not LEDs.

Yep, I suspect they predate the invention of the white LED. Both of  
'em are now very, very dim.

	-- N.


   nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http:// 
www.cassiel.com

The backlight can be replaced, though it's a bit fiddly
http://www.synthrestore.co.uk/products.htm#screens
Jez



  On 26 Oct 2006, at 15:14, Oakley Sound wrote:

  > I think these would have EL (electroluminescent) panels and not LEDs.

  Yep, I suspect they predate the invention of the white LED. Both of 
  'em are now very, very dim.

  -- N.

  nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http:// 
  www.cassiel.com



  . 
   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Time to half brightness has 
> been the biggest issue for a long time with OLED. New processes have 
> improved this - what happens in factories now is that they burn them 
> in during production as the curve is quite steep when they are new. 

So is it fair to say that the uneven-ness that may appear will not worsen at
the same rate as happens initially ?
The display brightness was adjusted by eye on each production P3, so I guess
depending on ambient light conditions at the time, some units may have had
their brightness a little too high, leading to a more noticeable dimming of
the pixels that are on most of the time (i.e. the page 1 play mode display).

> Best thing long term is to turn the brightness down when new 
> - or turn 
> the display off after a period of time.

The brightness control is the only preset potentiometer on the mainboard, so
it shouldn't be too hard to find.
I've found useable settings run from just before the 12 o'clock position to
around 10 o'clock, the latter being the brightest point.
If you have a display that shows some uneven-ness, are concerned about the
longevity of your display, and confident enough to open up your P3, you
could adjust the brightness to a lower level.
 
Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

Not sure of the dimensions of the PLED pcb or the voltage(s) being
supplied, (or if the controller is 44780-based) but if those
requirements match up, you might look at these as a alternative:

http://www.optrex.com/products/partdetail.asp?PartNumber=C-51848NFQJ-LG-ACN

I've been pleased with the 20x2 and 20x4 - theyre a really luscious
emerald green on black (not the washy yellow-green of typical LED
backlights). Theyre low current, too, (max ~90mA for the 16x2 iirc)
which is always a plus. (RoHS ok.)

Mark

Morning gang,

I know it's naughty, I know it's wrong but I thought I'd see what would 
happen if I sequenced all my P3s at once...

Well, I tried being subtle once and nobody noticed. No such worries here:

www.bogusfocus.com/pn/mp3/ThreeP3Jamboree.mp3

Two or three tracks pasted back to back in one mp3. Just P3 and drum 
machine, no keyboard playing or anything - although the Roland V-Synth 
does the arpeggios with the weird stepped voices...

I blame the shortbread.

Paul

---- Original Message ----

From: Paul Nagle
To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 10:38 AM
Subject: [analogue-sequencer] Assorted Demos

> Morning gang,
> 
> I know it's naughty, I know it's wrong but I thought I'd see what
> would 
> happen if I sequenced all my P3s at once...

All...? How many? (hehe...)
 
> Well, I tried being subtle once and nobody noticed. No such worries
> here: 
> 

Thanks for sharing, Paul - there are some excellent parts hidden in this long track.

:-)

Gert van Santen
www.waveworld.tv


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I wound up selling my Cubase sx 3 because its midi clock made the p3 (and
another step sequencer) go rather insane. Has anyone been using Cubase 4
with the p3, particularly on os x? I¹m just not sure that I will ever bond
with Live....


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Gene, 

> I wound up selling my Cubase sx 3 because its midi clock made 
> the p3 (and
> another step sequencer) go rather insane.

What firmware version are you running on P3, and what sort of insanity were
you getting ?
There have been various changes made to sort problems with PC based
sequencers doing weird stuff with MIDI clock, up to the most recent beta
version.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

>  
>  
>  
> 
> Hi Gene, 
> 
>> > I wound up selling my Cubase sx 3 because its midi clock made
>> > the p3 (and
>> > another step sequencer) go rather insane.
> 
> ³What firmware version are you running on P3, and what sort of insanity were
> you getting ?
> There have been various changes made to sort problems with PC based
> sequencers doing weird stuff with MIDI clock, up to the most recent beta
> version.²
> 
> Well, I know that it was a Cubase issue because the p3 has been rock solid
> with my other software...in addition, it wasn¹t the only step sequencer that
> had a problem with that version of Cubase.
> 
> I¹m running 3.1.006. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good Day Sequentixers:

       How well would the P3 handle sequencing midi data to control a MAQ 16/3 and an Electrix Repeater? Thanks, Bill

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Colin Fraser 
  To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 5:50 PM
  Subject: RE: [analogue-sequencer] p3 and cubase 4


  Hi Gene, 

  > I wound up selling my Cubase sx 3 because its midi clock made 
  > the p3 (and
  > another step sequencer) go rather insane.

  What firmware version are you running on P3, and what sort of insanity were
  you getting ?
  There have been various changes made to sort problems with PC based
  sequencers doing weird stuff with MIDI clock, up to the most recent beta
  version.

  Best regards,
  Colin Fraser
  Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
  http://www.sequentix.com



   


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, Paul Nagle <softroom@...>
wrote:
>
> Morning gang,
> 
> I know it's naughty, I know it's wrong but I thought I'd see what would 
> happen if I sequenced all my P3s at once...
>
> www.bogusfocus.com/pn/mp3/ThreeP3Jamboree.mp3

Funny how adding so many tracks can actually space things out (no pun
intended). I like how there is a lot of openness to the tracks so you
can hear all the little bits. A nice contrast to the JIC "wall of
sound" approach (which I also love love love).

Beautifully done. Can I have a whole CD of this;^)

-Jim
www.myspace.com/jimcombs
www.sensitivechaos.com

Jim Combs wrote:
>
> Funny how adding so many tracks can actually space things out (no pun
> intended). I like how there is a lot of openness to the tracks so you
> can hear all the little bits. A nice contrast to the JIC "wall of
> sound" approach (which I also love love love).
>   
Hehe, it's just some assorted ideas for a gig in two weeks.
> Beautifully done. Can I have a whole CD of this;^)
>   
Hopefully after the gig <g>

Paul
---

www.softroom.co.uk / www.JointIntelligenceCommittee.com

Ok, so if one of you current owners wants to sell your P3 please send details direct to eyesaw@ptd.net. Thanks, Bill in Lititz, PA U.S.A.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Eyesaw 
  To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 10:25 AM
  Subject: [analogue-sequencer] P3 As Midi Controller


  Good Day Sequentixers:

  How well would the P3 handle sequencing midi data to control a MAQ 16/3 and an Electrix Repeater? Thanks, Bill

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Colin Fraser 
  To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 5:50 PM
  Subject: RE: [analogue-sequencer] p3 and cubase 4

  Hi Gene, 

  > I wound up selling my Cubase sx 3 because its midi clock made 
  > the p3 (and
  > another step sequencer) go rather insane.

  What firmware version are you running on P3, and what sort of insanity were
  you getting ?
  There have been various changes made to sort problems with PC based
  sequencers doing weird stuff with MIDI clock, up to the most recent beta
  version.

  Best regards,
  Colin Fraser
  Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
  http://www.sequentix.com

  ----------------------------------------------------------

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Hehe, it's just some assorted ideas for a gig in two weeks.

Paul ... I presume you are refering to the NSC.
I've got my ticket, and I'm really looking forward to it now!

Are you taking all 3 of the wee beasties along then?

Dave

em_dkj wrote:
> Paul ... I presume you are refering to the NSC.
> I've got my ticket, and I'm really looking forward to it now!
>   

Cool, that's one sold then ;)
I'm looking forward to it also; I believe it's the last gig at the NSC 
and as it's been a really great venue for us, I want to pull out all the 
stops this time...

> Are you taking all 3 of the wee beasties along then?
>   
I am thinking of doing yeah. Seems gratuitous I suppose, but I've been 
trying different things recently such as using the P3 to generate 
non-robotic percussion, or to create all manner of weird sound effects, 
or to manipulate samples by shifting their start times and length, or to 
vary another P3 track or to drive mad pitch changes on my Repeater etc. 
I've never used all 24 tracks at once yet but having so many available 
gives me a lot of flexibility - I can shift direction radically at any 
point on a whim. Actually, getting me off stage at the end of the 
evening could be the biggest challenge...
:)

Paul
---
www.softroom.co.uk / www.JointIntelligenceCommittee.com

--- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "Eyesaw" <eyesaw@...> 
wrote:
>I use the P3 as a master clock controlling a MAQ 16/3 and it works 
very well. 

> Good Day Sequentixers:
> 
>        How well would the P3 handle sequencing midi data to control 
a MAQ 16/3 and an Electrix Repeater? Thanks, Bill
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Colin Fraser 
>   To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 5:50 PM
>   Subject: RE: [analogue-sequencer] p3 and cubase 4
> 
> 
>   Hi Gene, 
> 
>   > I wound up selling my Cubase sx 3 because its midi clock made 
>   > the p3 (and
>   > another step sequencer) go rather insane.
> 
>   What firmware version are you running on P3, and what sort of 
insanity were
>   you getting ?
>   There have been various changes made to sort problems with PC 
based
>   sequencers doing weird stuff with MIDI clock, up to the most 
recent beta
>   version.
> 
>   Best regards,
>   Colin Fraser
>   Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
>   http://www.sequentix.com
> 
> 
> 
>    
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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