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Re:P4 editor

Re:P4 editor

2007-05-13 by Olivier Tison

vonhaulshoven said :
>it would be nice to have a grid editor (pc or mac) for all 8 tracks,
>for complicate sequencing with all the aux features you lose sometimes
>the "overlook"
>
>maybe something for the follow up of the P3?

well, wouldn't that be called a *software* sequencer then ?
sorry, but IMHO going back to software is not really what a hardware
sequencer needs... apart for librarian purposes..
I'm not in on this one, sorry.
I prefer Colin focusing on his existing P3 code ;)


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Re: [analogue-sequencer] Re:P4 editor

2007-05-13 by josh!

>
> well, wouldn't that be called a *software* sequencer then ?
> sorry, but IMHO going back to software is not really what a hardware
> sequencer needs... apart for librarian purposes..
>







that's exactly what I was thinking


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Re: [analogue-sequencer] Re:P4 editor

2007-05-16 by Jesse

Still, to be able to see and edit your sequences visually on your computer screen and on your P3 or P4, then being able to take that edited sequence on the road w/o a stupid PC seems like a huge feature for some people. Not saying I would want to start a sequence on a computer screen but maybe for clean up or for some things i missed without a visual representation of it could be nice...

Currently obviously its easy to just record your P3 via midi, then edit it in say a DAW for playback, but to be able to then take that "cleaned up" sequence and put it back into your P3 or P4 would be prety slick!

I guess being able to record midi from your DAW to your P3 would be the same thing as an editor?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: josh! 
  To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 11:10 AM
  Subject: Re: [analogue-sequencer] Re:P4 editor


  >
  > well, wouldn't that be called a *software* sequencer then ?
  > sorry, but IMHO going back to software is not really what a hardware
  > sequencer needs... apart for librarian purposes..
  >

  that's exactly what I was thinking

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   

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Re: [analogue-sequencer] Re:P4 editor

2007-05-16 by PAUL NAGLE

I recently bought a Korg Karma (for reasons that are now becoming baffling) and it's quite clear the only way I might understand what it is doing would be to use an editor and computer screen. Fortunately the P3 is considerably more intuitive and easy to get into - but I do see what you're getting at.
   
  Of more value to me would be a means to import v3 sysex into a v4 P3, especially as we have gigs looming and all our stuff is in the old format. Don't mind if there are no visuals involved there!  ;)
   
  Obviously there are lots of takes on this, none are more right than others. For me, I have to say music took its largest downward turn when visual representation and editing became elements to consider. I only realised this when I abandoned the computer in my own music and went back to only listening and playing. It remains to be seen whether I will judge the Karma worth the effort of taking up the mouse once again... 
   
  Paul
   
  

Jesse <jesse@shurhitrecords.com> wrote:
  Still, to be able to see and edit your sequences visually on your computer screen and on your P3 or P4, then being able to take that edited sequence on the road w/o a stupid PC seems like a huge feature for some people. Not saying I would want to start a sequence on a computer screen but maybe for clean up or for some things i missed without a visual representation of it could be nice...

Currently obviously its easy to just record your P3 via midi, then edit it in say a DAW for playback, but to be able to then take that "cleaned up" sequence and put it back into your P3 or P4 would be prety slick!

I guess being able to record midi from your DAW to your P3 would be the same thing as an editor?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: josh! 
To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [analogue-sequencer] Re:P4 editor


>
> well, wouldn't that be called a *software* sequencer then ?
> sorry, but IMHO going back to software is not really what a hardware
> sequencer needs... apart for librarian purposes..
>

that's exactly what I was thinking

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Re: [analogue-sequencer] Re:P4 editor

2007-05-16 by Nick Rothwell

On 16 May 2007, at 15:01, PAUL NAGLE wrote:

> For me, I have to say music took its largest downward turn when  
> visual representation and editing became elements to consider.

Yeah ... didn't I write a Sound On Sound editorial about this ...  
erm ... over a decade ago?

I can see that I might like a little "reporter" display on a computer  
that would tell me what I had set up in the P3 in terms of tracks,  
auxes and the like, but I think it would be a mistake to allow the  
computer to edit the P3's data rather than use the physical controls  
- otherwise, why have a P3 at all?


Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
www.cassiel.com
www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
www.loadbang.net

Re:P4 editor

2007-05-16 by duncan

>>Yeah ... didn't I write a Sound On Sound editorial about this ... 
erm ... over a decade ago?<<

you did indeed, nick. I was reading it in my sh*tter just the other
day. I've got a couple of paul's opinion-dumps stashed in there too.

as far as visula aids to composition are concerned, I'm worried that
it's just advancing years catching up with us; sure, the great
composers all wrote stuff down, but that was before tape-recorders, &
besides, they had to have something for the orchestra to learn from.

so, I've been trying to follow this correspondence about the v4... but
I (being of shortened attention span) need someone to put it in a
nutshell for me. any volunteers? perhaps a little chart: p3 functions
& nomenclature in one column, etcetera....

ah- I don't know how many of you are repeater owners- I know paul
is/was. well, there's life at electrix again. they wrote to me today
to say that v2 is about to ship ($129 on a cfc card is the only way to
get it) & the website is being tweaked right now with all the details.

duncan.

Re: [analogue-sequencer] Re:P4 editor

2007-05-17 by PAUL NAGLE

duncan <ferrograph@aol.com> wrote:    you did indeed, nick. I was reading it in my sh*tter just the other
day. I've got a couple of paul's opinion-dumps stashed in there too.
   
  All my best thoughts belong in the little room. That's where they often originate.

>so, I've been trying to follow this correspondence about the v4... but
>I (being of shortened attention span) need someone to put it in a
>nutshell for me. any volunteers? perhaps a little chart: p3 functions
>& nomenclature in one column, etcetera....

  Put simply, playlists are history (sob) but in their place are multi-bar patterns that have most of the functionality of playlists plus some new functionality that goes beyond what playlists could do (e.g. pattern ghosting, bar loop regions). Each part can now have its own set of unique patterns if you like or can draft in ghosts of patterns from other parts. Each bank has its own set of 8 user scales too that are saved with the bank.
   
  The pattern pool is used up dynamically as you allocate bars - so you can use loads of patterns in one bank and just a few for another. Oh, there are 16 banks now with no alternate configs. When it's all complete I think it will be both easier and more powerful - I'm already adapting to it although I miss the simplicity of taking a single pattern and using it many times in a playlist at different transpositions. In v4 this type of thing would eat up lots of bars.
   
  But you can do 16 bar patterns - which rocks - especially if you use a mad tbase like 64 and the quick config thing to set polyphonic recording - you can almost get something that sounds like realtime recording from it!
   
  Colin will doubtless have a better answer as I forget things. I'm sure there was another cool feature but can't remember at the moment. The playlist-free mode is conceptually easier. It should suit those P3 owners who believe replacing their shoelaces with velcro is a better option than learning to tie a knot. What, did I hear someone grrrr? :)  
  
>ah- I don't know how many of you are repeater owners- I know paul
>is/was. well, there's life at electrix again. they wrote to me today
>to say that v2 is about to ship ($129 on a cfc card is the only way to
>get it) & the website is being tweaked right now with all the details.
  
Been hearing about this off and on for aeons. Hey speaking of "time", dare I ask...?
  Anyway, independent track looping sounds fun but not sure I really need it unless there's some other significant new feature I didn't spot. Will wait and see a while yet. Did hope they could free up more internal memory so the CF read/clicking issue could be avoided but no sign of that. Interesting though.
   
  Paul


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Re: [analogue-sequencer] Re:P4 editor

2007-05-17 by von haulshoven von haulshoven

I want to use the p3 as a live instrument but want to pre setup al lot of things.
  And there the editor would be handy.
  I thought about this when I made some sequenes on the korg radias with the editor.
   
  I also know Colin can`t put in everybody`s wishes, so I just come with some ideas.
   
  
duncan <ferrograph@aol.com> wrote:
          >>Yeah ... didn't I write a Sound On Sound editorial about this ... 
erm ... over a decade ago?<<

you did indeed, nick. I was reading it in my sh*tter just the other
day. I've got a couple of paul's opinion-dumps stashed in there too.

as far as visula aids to composition are concerned, I'm worried that
it's just advancing years catching up with us; sure, the great
composers all wrote stuff down, but that was before tape-recorders, &
besides, they had to have something for the orchestra to learn from.

so, I've been trying to follow this correspondence about the v4... but
I (being of shortened attention span) need someone to put it in a
nutshell for me. any volunteers? perhaps a little chart: p3 functions
& nomenclature in one column, etcetera....

ah- I don't know how many of you are repeater owners- I know paul
is/was. well, there's life at electrix again. they wrote to me today
to say that v2 is about to ship ($129 on a cfc card is the only way to
get it) & the website is being tweaked right now with all the details.

duncan.



         

       
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Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

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RE: [analogue-sequencer] Re:P4 editor

2007-05-17 by Colin Fraser

>   Put simply, playlists are history (sob) but in their place 
> are multi-bar patterns that have most of the functionality of 
> playlists plus some new functionality that goes beyond what 
> playlists could do (e.g. pattern ghosting, ). 
> Each part can now have its own set of unique patterns if you 
> like or can draft in ghosts of patterns from other parts. 
> Each bank has its own set of 8 user scales too that are saved 
> with the bank.

Note that bar loop regions are in a newer build, which isn't up yet...
They allow you to set a loop start and end point in a pattern, so that bars
up to the loop start will play through once when the pattern is first
selected or P3 started, but then the pattern loops round the bars between
the loop start and end.
    
> The playlist-free mode is 
> conceptually easier. It should suit those P3 owners who 
> believe replacing their shoelaces with velcro is a better 
> option than learning to tie a knot. What, did I hear someone 
> grrrr? :)  

Well that has to include me - 99% of the time, I only used playlists to
string a few patterns together for a 2, 4 or 8 bar pattern.
The main advantage in v4 is that you have multi-bar patterns, and the
pattern is unique to the part & track it is on.
Unlike v3, there is no common set of single-bar patterns that must be shared
between all parts, so you don't have to worry about some bars of your
pattern being used in another part, which you might go and edit...

The other unexpected advantage of v4 is that you can very easily save a
pattern (as a new pattern or a ghost) to another *track*, which makes
building up composite sounds very simple.
And since you can save a pattern as a new pattern to another part, you can
very easily keep a safe copy of a pattern you intend to mess about with
heavily.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

Re:P4 editor

2007-05-17 by duncan

>>They allow you to set a loop start and end point in a pattern, so
that bars up to the loop start will play through once when the pattern
is first selected or P3 started, but then the pattern loops round the
bars between the loop start and end.<<

ooh- like a tb303? :-) I can get me head round that! can you stop it
looping so it carries on to the end then? will there be a remote
command for that? cool.... ("lads, the middle 8's going to be a middle
17, ok?")

>>The main advantage in v4 is that you have multi-bar patterns, and
the pattern is unique to the part & track it is on.
Unlike v3, there is no common set of single-bar patterns that must be
shared between all parts, so you don't have to worry about some bars
of your pattern being used in another part, which you might go and
edit...<<

I'm starting to overcome my conservatism & see the benefits of this...
definitely good for those of us who occasionally deliberately
compromise our.... erm.... what was I saying? 

>>The other unexpected advantage of v4 is that you can very easily
save a pattern (as a new pattern or a ghost) to another *track*, which
makes building up composite sounds very simple.
And since you can save a pattern as a new pattern to another part, you
can very easily keep a safe copy of a pattern you intend to mess about
with heavily.<<

gotcha. that all sounds sensible. one bank config, with 16 banks.
completely dynamic allocation of pattern memory. what was the bit
about the user scales, a complete set of 12 per bank?

wow. guess what I'll be doing this weekend. ah, but I need to spend
some time on the octopus too.... :-)

(paul, does that answer y'r question?)

duncan.

v4 beta

2007-05-20 by duncan

some first thoughts-

"global bar" isn't really global, is it? it acts at part level, & it
took me a few minutes to figure out that I could set a different
number for each part.... I like this, but I wonder if "global bar" is
the right name for what it does... perhaps "part length" is more accurate.

here's the tricky one though- I would like to be able to use different
FTS settings per part, not per bank. 
this way, a ghosted pattern in a different part could be pushed into a
different key....
if it makes any difference, I think 12 user scales is plenty for the
whole machine.

is there an option to.... um.... how can I explain this? I have a long
pattern & a short pattern in the same part. I want the part to play
the whole of the long pattern but for the short pattern to only play
once, & then "rest" until the part loops around to the start again.
but I don't want to make empty paterns to achieve this.

if I wanted the shorter pattern to play again under the second half of
the longer pattern, I could simply turn up it's rep count & let the
"part length" (global bar) setting take care of the rest.

maybe a "rep" of 1 could mean 1-shot, while an "A" in the rep count
column would mean the pattern keeps going until it hits the part
length parameter (global bar). 
so the "rep" number would be really how many times it plays, & to save
you having to adjust it every time you change the global bar size, so
that a short pattern keeps looping, you'd select "A" (for "autofill")
 
but as it stands, if I have a two-bar pattern & a one-bar pattern, the
one-bar automatically repeats until the two-bar pattern has done it's
stuff.
am I being dumb? someone tell me there's a way to do this already...
without going back to v3, that is.... :-)

duncan.

RE: [analogue-sequencer] v4 beta

2007-05-21 by Colin f

> "global bar" isn't really global, is it? it acts at part 
> level, & it took me a few minutes to figure out that I could 
> set a different number for each part.... I like this, but I 
> wonder if "global bar" is the right name for what it does... 
> perhaps "part length" is more accurate.

That's the way it's always worked, guess you just noticed !
It isn't strictly part length, since in a part chain, part length would be
gbar * part chain reps steps.
It's global in the sense that it's global to all tracks.

> here's the tricky one though- I would like to be able to use 
> different FTS settings per part, not per bank. 

FTS settings are per part.
Your confusion probably comes from my mentioning that FTS user scales are
now at the bank level.
What that means is that each of 8 *user defined* scales are stored uniquely
for each bank.
So if you edit user scale 1 in bank 1, that's a different scale definition
to user scale 1 in bank 2, etc.
The idea behind this is that if you transfer a bank from one P3 v4 to
another, unless you have the same user defined scales set on both units, the
transferred bank may sound different.
With global user scales, you would have to check which scale number was
used, copy the definition over manually, and hope another bank on your
destination P3 wasn't using the same scale number.
In v4, the user defined scales belong to the bank.
And there are 8 for each bank, so you can have a different user defined
scale for every *part* in that bank.

> is there an option to.... um.... how can I explain this? I 
> have a long pattern & a short pattern in the same part. I 
> want the part to play the whole of the long pattern but for 
> the short pattern to only play once, & then "rest" until the 
> part loops around to the start again.
> but I don't want to make empty paterns to achieve this.

There are still some settings to be added at the pattern level.
These will include a pattern gbar sync, which will reset a pattern to step
1, bar 1 on gbar reset.
The gbar setting there at the moment synchronises each *bar* of a pattern to
gbar, rather than the whole pattern.
Once pattern level gbar is there, you would be able to set up a 2 bar
pattern, with 1 bar of notes, followed by an empty second bar.
Then you would set the bar loop points to play only bar 2.
This give the equivalent of a one-shot pattern, restarted on gbar, without
any need to work out how many reps to put on the empty bar.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

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