Analogue-sequencer

Hi Robert,

I'll get the excuses in first ;-) ...
I'm conscious that the rapid growth of features in P3 has somewhat
compromised the usability for a new user.
But I'm happy to add anything that'll make life easier as long as it doesn't
involve knocking something else off.

> 3.a. I would like to *see* where I am. Top level mode? Play
> list edit mode? Pattern edit mode?
> Did I miss
> anything? Any visible clue?

Once upon a time, in play mode 'Play' always appeared in the top right of
the display, and 'Edit' in edit mode.
These were dropped to fit more useful information in.
One possibility I had thought of was using single characters to indicate the
mode - possibly in reversed video so they don't need to be separated by a
space. Maybe P for play, E for edit, and L for playlist edit.

> or that a new set of three LEDs would be
> added that simply indicate the current mode.

Hardware changes are to be avoided if at all possible.

> Suggestion: I wouldn't mind a bigger LCD to have this info
> constantly shown, along with the current edit page number.
> Can the sources be patched to support a bigger LCD screen?

It doesn't even really need patching. The display memory layout is the same
- I would just need to set the cursor position higher.
But I haven't seen any 20x2 PLED displays yet. Plus I don't want to piss
existing users off by forcing them into a display upgrade.

> 3.b. I never know what I have to do , or *can* do when
> editing a parameter.  Some parameters require the Data knob
> to be tweaked, while others use buttons 1 and 2 to
> increment/decrement a value, while yet another set requires
> you to press one of the 16 step buttons (while pressing one
> of the param buttons).

Generally speaking, you use +/- softkeys for a setting with a small number
of options, the step keys for a setting with a range of 1 to 16, and the
data knob for settings with a range greater than 16.
Some sort of visual reminder shouldn't be too hard tho'.

> 3.c. Some parameters don't give their current value, I
> think. ;) For instance, the last pattern step to be set
> with the Edit Last parameter doesn't show the current
> value? Correct? I'm not sure here.

It's supposed to. That's a long forgotten 'thing to do'.
I'll get there eventually ;-)

> 4. The Data and Tempo knobs should be labeled on the case.
>  I keep using the wrong buttons and wild tempo changes. ;)

That was an oversight on my part when the particular case you're using was
made :-(

> 5. The Data and Tempo knobs should be moved to some other
> place on the panel. I still think my last suggestion would
> work fine (i.e. placing 2 or 3 knobs between the keypad and
> LCD).

I mocked that up in paintshop, and didn't like the look of it.
Personally I never have a problem with them where they are.
I reckon some people have lazy wrists.
My old piano teacher would have given you a right earful ;-)
As pointed out elsewhere, on a DIY P3 you can put them where you like.
I'll give their location some more thought before the next run of
ready-builts.

> Am I correct that I can't see which track I'm
> editing when entering playlist mode?

Yes. I'm not sure there's anywhere it can go.
I'll review the layout of the display and see if there's space.

> Suggestion: Maybe explain a bit more in the manual about
> this mode.

Maybe ;-)

Cheers,
Colin f



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On Wednesday 07 January 2004 16:34, Colin f wrote:
> Hi Robert,
>
> I'll get the excuses in first ;-) ...
> I'm conscious that the rapid growth of features in P3 has
> somewhat compromised the usability for a new user.
> But I'm happy to add anything that'll make life easier as
> long as it doesn't involve knocking something else off.

Cool. :)
Leffe? Alfa? Duvel?

> Once upon a time, in play mode 'Play' always appeared in
> the top right of the display, and 'Edit' in edit mode.
> These were dropped to fit more useful information in.
> One possibility I had thought of was using single
> characters to indicate the mode - possibly in reversed
> video so they don't need to be separated by a space.
> Maybe P for play, E for edit, and L for playlist edit.

That would be *perfect* Colin. And very much needed, imo.

> It doesn't even really need patching. The display memory
> layout is the same - I would just need to set the cursor
> position higher. But I haven't seen any 20x2 PLED
> displays yet. Plus I don't want to piss existing users
> off by forcing them into a display upgrade.

Well, I was thinking about an *option* using #ifdefs in the 
source tree. You could provide a binary in a number of 
optional configs, like the bigger screen, extra mode LEDS, 
whatever. It's more work, I know, but it would be nice to 
allow for different hw configs.

Btw, I'm still offering any software help you need for this, 
free of charge, if it's any help. Guess not. ;)

But I understand if you don't like the idea of a variable hw 
setup.

> Generally speaking, you use +/- softkeys for a setting
> with a small number of options, the step keys for a
> setting with a range of 1 to 16, and the data knob for
> settings with a range greater than 16. Some sort of
> visual reminder shouldn't be too hard tho'.

I was thinking about a special character at the beginning or 
end of the param (value) text. Maybe reversed video. 

Is it much work/code to have the Data knob alsways work for 
all params?


> > 3.c. Some parameters don't give their current value, I
> > think. ;) For instance, the last pattern step to be set
> > with the Edit Last parameter doesn't show the current
> > value? Correct? I'm not sure here.
>
> It's supposed to. That's a long forgotten 'thing to do'.
> I'll get there eventually ;-)

In this special case, the last step value could be placed on 
the LCD screen. If you're going to use the reversed E for 
Edit mode, the word 'Edit' in the top right could be 
removed and the Last step value could be shown there.


> That was an oversight on my part when the particular case
> you're using was made :-(

Ah, okay. No harm done, as this is just Boele's case. 
Lol! :) (Now I'll have to do even more work in his new 
house...)


> I mocked that up in paintshop, and didn't like the look
> of it. Personally I never have a problem with them where
> they are. I reckon some people have lazy wrists.

That's me yes. ;)

> My old piano teacher would have given you a right earful
> ;-) 

Don't worry, I've had my share from my classical guitar 
teacher. ;)

> > Am I correct that I can't see which track I'm
> > editing when entering playlist mode?
>
> Yes. I'm not sure there's anywhere it can go.
> I'll review the layout of the display and see if there's
> space.

Thanks. Maybe a LED?

>
> > Suggestion: Maybe explain a bit more in the manual
> > about this mode.
>
> Maybe ;-)

Uh oh. ;)

> > But I'm happy to add anything that'll make life easier as
> > long as it doesn't involve knocking something else off.
> 
> Cool. :)
> Leffe? Alfa? Duvel?

I meant 'add anything' in the context of software.
If I had to start beta testing continental beers, the development
process might slow to a crawl.

> Well, I was thinking about an *option* using #ifdefs in the 
> source tree. You could provide a binary in a number of 
> optional configs, like the bigger screen, extra mode LEDS, 
> whatever. It's more work, I know, but it would be nice to 
> allow for different hw configs.

If the software was made more flexible that way, imagine how difficult
it would be to follow the manual, or to share ideas with other users
when their sequencer has a significantly different configuration.
I'd much prefer to stick to a single software version for P3, optimised
for a single hardware configuration.
When P4 comes along, I'll go feature-mental.
And charge more ;-)
 
> > Generally speaking, you use +/- softkeys for a setting
> > with a small number of options, the step keys for a
> > setting with a range of 1 to 16, and the data knob for
> > settings with a range greater than 16. Some sort of
> > visual reminder shouldn't be too hard tho'.
> 
> I was thinking about a special character at the beginning or 
> end of the param (value) text. Maybe reversed video. 

For values that are selected using the step keys, it would make sense to
have some sort of cyclic light show to indicate the keys are just
gagging to be touched. I know certain people who I'm sure would like
that.
Values that use inc/dec softkeys are all shown as such above the F1/F2
softkeys. That should be easy enough to remember.
A little flashing symbol in the display to show the data knob wants to
see some action should help you out.
I've actually only just looked at how to do the user defined characters
on the display, and it's dead easy.
BTW anyone with a Japanese font display module may have noticed the
change in characters because of this.
If anyone misses the Japanese symbols, I can always make them a UI
option ;-)
The next thing to try is modification of a displayed character to give
animation.
Anyone for spinning knob icons ? ;-)

> Is it much work/code to have the Data knob alsways work for 
> all params?

Can't tell until I've done it.
But I think it could be counter-productive for some parameters where
data knob movement between steps would be very large.

> In this special case, the last step value could be placed on 
> the LCD screen. If you're going to use the reversed E for 
> Edit mode, the word 'Edit' in the top right could be 
> removed and the Last step value could be shown there.

The forgotten TBI was to have the LEDs switch to a single amber LED
showing the last step while the 'last' softkey was held.
I think that makes more sense.

> > > Am I correct that I can't see which track I'm
> > > editing when entering playlist mode?
> >
> > Yes. I'm not sure there's anywhere it can go.
> > I'll review the layout of the display and see if there's
> > space.
> 
> Thanks. Maybe a LED?

Since there are only 8 possible steps in a playlist, it would in theory
be possible to have one LED showing the current playlist step in the 9 -
16 LEDs, and leave the current track displayed in the 1 - 8 LEDs.
But this might be more confusing for practiced users.

Cheers,
Colin f

On Wednesday 07 January 2004 18:44, Colin f wrote:

> > Cool. :)
> > Leffe? Alfa? Duvel?
>
> I meant 'add anything' in the context of software.
> If I had to start beta testing continental beers, the
> development process might slow to a crawl.

Lol! So you *know* these brands! :)
I still have some Leffe Dubbel in the fridge. Great stuff.

>
> > Well, I was thinking about an *option* using #ifdefs in
> > the source tree. You could provide a binary in a number
> > of optional configs, like the bigger screen, extra mode
> > LEDS, whatever. It's more work, I know, but it would be
> > nice to allow for different hw configs.
>

> When P4 comes along, I'll go feature-mental.
> And charge more ;-)

Hey! ;)


> For values that are selected using the step keys, it
> would make sense to have some sort of cyclic light show
> to indicate the keys are just gagging to be touched. I
> know certain people who I'm sure would like that.

Yes, lightshow, cool! :)
There's the risc however that the live P3 user will simply 
stop performing, completely focussed on the LED show, heh.

> Values that use inc/dec softkeys are all shown as such
> above the F1/F2 softkeys. That should be easy enough to
> remember. A little flashing symbol in the display to show
> the data knob wants to see some action should help you
> out.

Yes, that would be great.

> I've actually only just looked at how to do the user
> defined characters on the display, and it's dead easy.

And this works for both the old LCD and the OLED screens?

> Anyone for spinning knob icons ? ;-)

Well, give it a try. ;)


> > Is it much work/code to have the Data knob alsways work
> > for all params?
>
> Can't tell until I've done it.
> But I think it could be counter-productive for some
> parameters where data knob movement between steps would
> be very large.

You mean because you only have a few values to 'spread' over 
the full knob range? I think I wouldn't mind that. The fact 
that it simply always works would make it very useful, I 
think. I may even go for a larger knob then.


> The forgotten TBI was to have the LEDs switch to a single
> amber LED showing the last step while the 'last' softkey
> was held. I think that makes more sense.

Think so too. I was actually looking for some kind of visual 
clue.

> Since there are only 8 possible steps in a playlist, it
> would in theory be possible to have one LED showing the
> current playlist step in the 9 - 16 LEDs, and leave the
> current track displayed in the 1 - 8 LEDs. But this might
> be more confusing for practiced users.

I was planning to add an extra caption to the right 8 step 
keys on my on panel saying "Bank 1 - 2 - 3...". I guess 
changing that into "Bank/Playlist Step" would surely help.

- Robert