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RS290 Question

RS290 Question

2003-04-21 by ethanzer0

I just received my RS290 this weekend
and I am wondering if there is something 
wrong with mine, or, if software version
v1.0 is buggy.

I noticed the following:

* The maximum sampling rate is 46.9k 
not 48k.  

* With the feedback turned up in delay 
mode I get high frequency aliasing that
sounds like it is sampling at less than
16bits.  

* I caused the interface to hang by 
checking input and output levels.

* When manually setting the delay time
unless the knob is all the way right, or,
all the way left, the delay time is not 
stable.  I can see this by the the numbers
in the display being jumbled and hear this
as distortion in the processed output.

Are these quirks correctable? Should I contact
the shop I purchased the RS290 from?  Should
I contact AS?

Thanks in advance,

Ethan

Re: RS290 Question

2003-04-21 by ethanzer0

--- In analogue_systems@yahoogroups.com, "Gareth Green" 
> sorry to act like teacher but that is my job ;)
> 
> regards
> 

Are you saying 44.1k at 4 bits does not 
produce the typcial speak-and-spell
aliased sample sound?

Ethan

Re: [analogue_systems] RS290 Question

2003-04-21 by Gareth Green

im not an owner of an RS290 so cant answer your questions.

Other than point out that aliasing noise is not a by product of low bit depths . Aliasing is a by product of low sample rates.

sorry to act like teacher but that is my job ;)

regards
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: ethanzer0 
  To: analogue_systems@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 1:36 PM
  Subject: [analogue_systems] RS290 Question


  I just received my RS290 this weekend
  and I am wondering if there is something 
  wrong with mine, or, if software version
  v1.0 is buggy.

  I noticed the following:

  * The maximum sampling rate is 46.9k 
  not 48k.  

  * With the feedback turned up in delay 
  mode I get high frequency aliasing that
  sounds like it is sampling at less than
  16bits.  

  * I caused the interface to hang by 
  checking input and output levels.

  * When manually setting the delay time
  unless the knob is all the way right, or,
  all the way left, the delay time is not 
  stable.  I can see this by the the numbers
  in the display being jumbled and hear this
  as distortion in the processed output.

  Are these quirks correctable? Should I contact
  the shop I purchased the RS290 from?  Should
  I contact AS?

  Thanks in advance,

  Ethan


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Re: [analogue_systems] RS290 Question

2003-04-21 by Peter Grenader

Gareth Greenwrote:

im not an owner of an RS290 so cant answer your questions.

Other than point out that aliasing noise is not a by product of low bit
depths . Aliasing is a by product of low sample rates.

sorry to act like teacher but that is my job ;)

regards
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: ethanzer0 
 To: analogue_systems@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 1:36 PM
 Subject: [analogue_systems] RS290 Question


 I just received my RS290 this weekend
 and I am wondering if there is something
 wrong with mine, or, if software version
 v1.0 is buggy.

 I noticed the following:

 * The maximum sampling rate is 46.9k
 not 48k.  

This is true.  ALso notice thee is no REVRB on the top-level menu as the
preliminary spec said there would be.

 * With the feedback turned up in delay
 mode I get high frequency aliasing that
 sounds like it is sampling at less than
 16bits.  

Not sure exactly, will try tonight.

 * I caused the interface to hang by
 checking input and output levels.

Yes - this has happened to me.

 * When manually setting the delay time
 unless the knob is all the way right, or,
 all the way left, the delay time is not
 stable.  I can see this by the the numbers
 in the display being jumbled and hear this
 as distortion in the processed output.

 Are these quirks correctable?

As this is a DSP device, everything is correctable and, if I understand the
specs, these new operating systems will be upladable as sysex files.

Should I contact
 the shop I purchased the RS290 from?  Should
 I contact AS?

 Thanks in advance,

 Ethan


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [analogue_systems] RS290 Question

2003-04-21 by Arnauld Michelizza

> I just received my RS290 this weekend
> and I am wondering if there is something
> wrong with mine, or, if software version
> v1.0 is buggy.
>
> I noticed the following:
>
> * The maximum sampling rate is 46.9k
> not 48k.
>
> * With the feedback turned up in delay
> mode I get high frequency aliasing that
> sounds like it is sampling at less than
> 16bits.
>
> * I caused the interface to hang by
> checking input and output levels.
>
> * When manually setting the delay time
> unless the knob is all the way right, or,
> all the way left, the delay time is not
> stable.  I can see this by the the numbers
> in the display being jumbled and hear this
> as distortion in the processed output.
>
> Are these quirks correctable? Should I contact
> the shop I purchased the RS290 from?  Should
> I contact AS?

I will forward your message to Bob Williams. I think that every bug
report can help to improve the software.

Arnauld

Re: [analogue_systems] Re: RS290 Question

2003-04-21 by Arnauld Michelizza

> Are you saying 44.1k at 4 bits does not
> produce the typcial speak-and-spell
> aliased sample sound?

Yes, aliasing is related to frequency. Sampling theorem states that
sampling rate must be twice as the higher frequency of the sound you
want to reproduce. If the sampling rate is too low, high frequencies
in your sound will give low frequencies in the sample : high frequencies
will be _aliased_ to lower frequencies.

With 4 bits, you can have 16 differents values. Thus, it will be hard to
reproduce a smooth sinusoide with only 16 values and your sound will be
altered and will sound "lo-fi".

In fact, sampling rate and resolution are both important to reproduce
acurately a sound.

I hope this clear (sorry for my english... not my native language :-(

Arnauld

RS290 Issues.

2003-04-21 by (i think you can figure that out)

Regarding the anomalies with the RS290:

The 290 is somewhat groundbreaking in that it's the first time (to my 
knowledge) a DSP-based device has made it to the analog domain, complete 
with analog VC.  Undoubtedly, something like this may have some bugs at the 
onset. Afterall, it's a huge undertaking.  While it's fairly simple to write code so 
that certain input conditions will cause certain things will happen, it's really 
hard to find all of the instances where random input combinations you weren't 
intentionally considering when programming take place which may cause the 
code to step on itself and crash the device.

While IBM may have buildings full of programmers doing nothing but code 
QA,  I'm sure A Sys isn't quite as e


There are two reassuring thoughts:

1) If you have the optional expander (RS295), new operating systems will be 
uploadable into your RS290 at a later date - so these bugs are repairable for 
units already out in the field.

2) Knowing Bob Williams' attention to details, all of these problems will be 
taken to heart, addressed and corrected.  It may take a little bit to get a fix, but 
in the meanwhile, we have a great instrument to enjoy - the 290 is a lot of fun.

Fortunatel, none of these bugs make this module unusable in the meantime, 
so I am not too worried.  Knowing about them, we can easily avoid the 
situations which cause these problems. The best advise I could give is that we 
continue to post future amonalies here in this  forum so that A Sys can get the 
411 as needed to replair them.

- Peter

Re: RS290 Issues.

2003-04-22 by ethanzer0

--- In analogue_systems@yahoogroups.com,
> in the meanwhile, we have a great instrument 
> to enjoy - the 290 is a lot of fun.  Fortunately, 
> none of these bugs make this module unusable in 
> the meantime
 
Peter,

I agree with you that the RS290 is an amazing
achievement and a worthwhile addition to any 
modular rig.  I hope my observations and concerns 
do not give the impression I am poo-pooing the RS290.
Rather, I bring my concerns to this forum as I would
like to make sure I do not have a defective unit.

Is it true the RS295 can be used to dump samples
over midi to the RS290? 

Ethan

RS290 answer by Bob William

2003-04-23 by Arnauld Michelizza

I have forwarded your bug reports about rs290 module to Bob William. Here
is his answer :

		We have learnt that the faults are to do with power
	supply issues due to our modules being fitted into inferior
	cases from other manufacturers. It seems the +12v and +5v rails
	are being affected.The rs290 alone gives out 360ma and the rs95
	vco's on one system being 90ma each makes 540ma before any other
	module is added and if the power supply only handles say 500ma
	then there is going to be tears.  An rs15 has been ordered by
	one of the users so hopefully there will be no more problems.
	Our designer Les Newell may email the user group with detailed
	explanation but if you can mention that it is not a module
	fault(of course there may be bugs in it that will come to light
	in the future)then at least users or potential users will be
	reassured.


Arnauld

Re: [analogue_systems] RS290 answer by Bob William

2003-04-23 by Bakis Sirros

hi list,
yes,but ,doesn't analogue systems own case(rs15) has a
PSU that can handle only 500mA???so,if someone want to
add an rs290 into this rs15,what can he do??add a
second PSU?can this be done by AS??
bakis.


--- Arnauld Michelizza <am@zehc.net> wrote:
> 
> I have forwarded your bug reports about rs290 module
> to Bob William. Here
> is his answer :
> 
> 		We have learnt that the faults are to do with
> power
> 	supply issues due to our modules being fitted into
> inferior
> 	cases from other manufacturers. It seems the +12v
> and +5v rails
> 	are being affected.The rs290 alone gives out 360ma
> and the rs95
> 	vco's on one system being 90ma each makes 540ma
> before any other
> 	module is added and if the power supply only
> handles say 500ma
> 	then there is going to be tears.  An rs15 has been
> ordered by
> 	one of the users so hopefully there will be no more
> problems.
> 	Our designer Les Newell may email the user group
> with detailed
> 	explanation but if you can mention that it is not a
> module
> 	fault(of course there may be bugs in it that will
> come to light
> 	in the future)then at least users or potential
> users will be
> 	reassured.
> 
> 
> Arnauld
> 
> 


=====
synthfreak(parallel worlds)
athens-greece
[Doepfer_a100] group owner

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Re: RS290 answer by Bob William

2003-04-23 by (i think you can figure that out)

The A Sysy power supply uses regulators which are rated as 
follows:

5 volt line:   

7805 rated at 1 amp

+12 volt line: 
  
LM317 rated at 1.5 amps

-12 volt line:

LM337 rated at 1. 5 amps

Your mileage may vary - but it looks to be good for more than half 
an amp.  This is not to say that I was surprised how much juice 
the 290 requires - I was thinking it was up in the 300 ma range, 
half an amp is really  high and yeah, this could creat a problem 
in 3 or 6u chassis causing over load to even an A Sys supply.

The bottom line, modules with displays are going to pull a lot of 
juice.  Being LCD it's not nearly as bad as if they were (gasp) 
LED displays, but still they are current hogs.  I would suggest 
any of you who have more than one module with LCDs spread 
them out, one each to a chassis box (and power supply).

Something I did that you may wish to consider:  I own a slew of A 
Sys, Doepfer and some A Sol gear, but use my one case and 
because of that, my own supply - in this instance a Condor.  They 
are not cheap, but offer really good overdrive protection and are 
tremendously clean. 

For instance - if I accidently connect a module's power 
backwards - the supply folds back in about 20 ms.  No blown 
fuse, no burnt rectifier - it just turns itself off.   

But there is a price to pay for this convenience - the dual +/- 
supply alone, without a fuse, without ac connected and needing 
all that wiring runs about $120.  I have one for the 15 volt 
modules (Blacet, MOTM, Oakley, and my homebrew stuff), and a 
12 volt for the 3U high stuff.  For the 5 volt, I use one of Doepfer's 
little piggyback plug-in regulator modules.

Hope this helps,

Peter


--- In analogue_systems@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros 
<synth_freak_2000@y...> wrote:
> hi list,
> yes,but ,doesn't analogue systems own case(rs15) has a
> PSU that can handle only 500mA???so,if someone want to
> add an rs290 into this rs15,what can he do??add a
> second PSU?can this be done by AS??
> bakis.
> 
> 
> --- Arnauld Michelizza <am@z...> wrote:
> > 
> > I have forwarded your bug reports about rs290 module
> > to Bob William. Here
> > is his answer :
> > 
> > 		We have learnt that the faults are to do with
> > power
> > 	supply issues due to our modules being fitted into
> > inferior
> > 	cases from other manufacturers. It seems the +12v
> > and +5v rails
> > 	are being affected.The rs290 alone gives out 360ma
> > and the rs95
> > 	vco's on one system being 90ma each makes 540ma
> > before any other
> > 	module is added and if the power supply only
> > handles say 500ma
> > 	then there is going to be tears.  An rs15 has been
> > ordered by
> > 	one of the users so hopefully there will be no more
> > problems.
> > 	Our designer Les Newell may email the user group
> > with detailed
> > 	explanation but if you can mention that it is not a
> > module
> > 	fault(of course there may be bugs in it that will
> > come to light
> > 	in the future)then at least users or potential
> > users will be
> > 	reassured.
> > 
> > 
> > Arnauld
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> =====
> synthfreak(parallel worlds)
> athens-greece
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> 
> 
__________________________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
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Another message from Bob William

2003-04-24 by Arnauld Michelizza

Bob said :
             "It seems that our manual and the p.d.f on the website has
not been updated and is still showing the old 500ma figure.
Could you post to the user group that for quite some time now our power
supply can handle 800ma with ease and that the manual and website will be
changed although we still have manuals with old data."


Arnauld

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