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Thread

BCman feature request

BCman feature request

2008-05-30 by k5kip_1999

Mark, 
I have been using your editor lately.
I have been also using Royce's.
both are excellent.
Thanks to both of you for the hard work.

With BCman, I love being able to 
1. capture the sysex from my synth, just by moving the control, to
help create a hands on editor.
2. when editing a ton of the same thing over and over, I love having
the same selections come up when i go from control to control, awesome.
3. the graphic representation has helped a ton
4. being able to move things around easily and with cut/copy and paste.


I have had to make a bunch of edits to captured sysex to allow for the
value changes at the last bits. Bcman made it a better.

I do have a request.
Is there a way add the feature of negative numbers for the range and
increment, or the possibility of having them in hex form, so that negs
can be entered.  
My current project needs negative sysex values in a couple of places.

I can use Royce's editor to do this, but when I bring the sysex into
BCman the negatives are turned into big decimals and then no longer
work properly.  Perhaps I should not complain and just use what works.

Thanks again to both Royce and Mark!

Kip

Re: BCman feature request

2008-06-08 by Mark van den Berg

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@...> wrote:
 > I do have a request.
> Is there a way add the feature of negative numbers for the range and
> increment, or the possibility of having them in hex form, so that negs
> can be entered.  
> My current project needs negative sysex values in a couple of places.

I'd be quite willing to oblige if I can. However, I'm probably a bit dim 
right now, but I don't understand which numbers exactly you want to have 
in negative form. Are you talking about bytes in "custom output"?

Mark.

Re: BCman feature request

2008-06-08 by k5kip_1999

Yes I am talking about in custom output.
minmax range.
Now, I was able to get the values entered in Royce's editor with help.
For example in my vfx editor I have octave of an voice, it has values
-4 ... 4.
Royce showed me how to do it with hex and to have it on a separate button.

$button 50 ;Pitch_Oct+
  .showvalue on
  .default 0
  .mode incval 1
  .minmax 0 4
  .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $00 $00 $01 $00 $00 $00 $0B $00 $00 $00 $00
val4.7 val0.3 $F7

$button 52 ;Pitch_Oct -
  .showvalue on
  .default $3FFF
  .mode incval -1
  .minmax $3FFC $3FFF
 .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $00 $00 $01 $00 $00 $00 $0B $00 $00 $0F
val8.11 val4.7 val0.3 $F7

I could not figure out how to enter this kind of information (button
52) from your editor. When I open this in your editor it shows.
Default=16383 min=16380 max=16383 inc=-1.
I could not find documentation of what 16383 is?
This left me frustrated, however when I tested it it worked.
Now can we get button 50 and button 52 into one button control, so
they increment up thru or down 1, 2, 3, 4, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0, or
something like this?

Same question on knobs..
Also - I have several other controls for my vfx that run a range of
-127...127, several that run -99...99 and one that goes -12...12. 
So the knob runs 0 in the middle as default, then left down negative
side, back up to middle 0, right up the positive side. 
Can I get that into one knob? Does my explanation make sense?
An example would be pitch lfo modulation amount - goes -127...127, so
that when the value is negative the pitch sweep is reversed, very nice
to have control over. 

Thanks Mark for a great program!

 


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Mark van den Berg" <markwinvdb@...> wrote:
>
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@> wrote:
>  > I do have a request.
> > Is there a way add the feature of negative numbers for the range and
> > increment, or the possibility of having them in hex form, so that negs
> > can be entered.  
> > My current project needs negative sysex values in a couple of places.
> 
> I'd be quite willing to oblige if I can. However, I'm probably a bit
dim 
> right now, but I don't understand which numbers exactly you want to
have 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> in negative form. Are you talking about bytes in "custom output"?
> 
> Mark.
>

Re: BCman feature request

2008-06-08 by k5kip_1999

Another thought would be asking to be able to export just one preset
to sysex.  The presets, intending to distribute, I have been working
on, require me to edit it in Royce's editor (removing the $global and
other $preset and $store x commands so my presets won't overwrite
another persons whole bcr. 
So - is there any way to export selected preset(s) instead of the
whole thing as .syx?

Thanks,
Kip

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@...> wrote:
>
> Yes I am talking about in custom output.
> minmax range.
> Now, I was able to get the values entered in Royce's editor with help.
> For example in my vfx editor I have octave of an voice, it has values
> -4 ... 4.
> Royce showed me how to do it with hex and to have it on a separate
button.
> 
> $button 50 ;Pitch_Oct+
>   .showvalue on
>   .default 0
>   .mode incval 1
>   .minmax 0 4
>   .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $00 $00 $01 $00 $00 $00 $0B $00 $00 $00 $00
> val4.7 val0.3 $F7
> 
> $button 52 ;Pitch_Oct -
>   .showvalue on
>   .default $3FFF
>   .mode incval -1
>   .minmax $3FFC $3FFF
>  .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $00 $00 $01 $00 $00 $00 $0B $00 $00 $0F
> val8.11 val4.7 val0.3 $F7
> 
> I could not figure out how to enter this kind of information (button
> 52) from your editor. When I open this in your editor it shows.
> Default=16383 min=16380 max=16383 inc=-1.
> I could not find documentation of what 16383 is?
> This left me frustrated, however when I tested it it worked.
> Now can we get button 50 and button 52 into one button control, so
> they increment up thru or down 1, 2, 3, 4, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0, or
> something like this?
> 
> Same question on knobs..
> Also - I have several other controls for my vfx that run a range of
> -127...127, several that run -99...99 and one that goes -12...12. 
> So the knob runs 0 in the middle as default, then left down negative
> side, back up to middle 0, right up the positive side. 
> Can I get that into one knob? Does my explanation make sense?
> An example would be pitch lfo modulation amount - goes -127...127, so
> that when the value is negative the pitch sweep is reversed, very nice
> to have control over. 
> 
> Thanks Mark for a great program!
> 
>  
> 
> 
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Mark van den Berg" <markwinvdb@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@> wrote:
> >  > I do have a request.
> > > Is there a way add the feature of negative numbers for the range and
> > > increment, or the possibility of having them in hex form, so
that negs
> > > can be entered.  
> > > My current project needs negative sysex values in a couple of
places.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > 
> > I'd be quite willing to oblige if I can. However, I'm probably a bit
> dim 
> > right now, but I don't understand which numbers exactly you want to
> have 
> > in negative form. Are you talking about bytes in "custom output"?
> > 
> > Mark.
> >
>

Re: BCman feature request

2008-06-10 by Mark van den Berg

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@...> wrote:
> Another thought would be asking to be able to export just one preset
> to sysex.  The presets, intending to distribute, I have been working
> on, require me to edit it in Royce's editor (removing the $global and
> other $preset and $store x commands so my presets won't overwrite
> another persons whole bcr. 
> So - is there any way to export selected preset(s) instead of the
> whole thing as .syx?

My first thought was that I could add an "Export selected preset(s)" 
feature to the preset list window.
However, I then realized that you may already be able to do what you 
want via the BCL Editor window. It's perhaps a bit clumsy, but not
VERY clumsy, hopefully...:

1. In the presets list window, select (highlight) the preset(s) of
your choice.

2. Open the BCL Editor window via the "View" pull-down menu of the 
B-Controls window.

3. Execute "Load->Selected presets" from the BCL Editor window. This 
copies the selected preset(s) to the BCL Editor window in the form of 
the BCL text.
Note: if the range of selected presets includes one or more MEMORY 
presets, you still get a $store statement after each memory preset,
and you also automatically get the TEMPORARY preset at the end. So for
your needs it may be best to only select the TEMPORARY preset ("preset
0"): in that case you only get the $rev statement, the actual
temporary preset, and the final $end, so without any $store. (Note
that you can simply copy any memory preset to the temporary preset by
pressing the spacebar in the preset list window.)

4. Execute "Save" from the BCL Editor window. This saves the text in
the BCL Editor window to a ".txt" file. (So not to a syx file - I
don't know if that's a problem.)

Does this suffice?

Mark.

Re: BCman feature request

2008-06-10 by Mark van den Berg

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@...> wrote:
k5kip_1999 wrote:
> Yes I am talking about in custom output.
> minmax range.
> Now, I was able to get the values entered in Royce's editor with help.
> For example in my vfx editor I have octave of an voice, it has values
> -4 ... 4.
> Royce showed me how to do it with hex and to have it on a separate
button.
> 
> $button 50 ;Pitch_Oct+
>   .showvalue on
>   .default 0
>   .mode incval 1
>   .minmax 0 4
>   .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $00 $00 $01 $00 $00 $00 $0B $00 $00 $00 $00
> val4.7 val0.3 $F7
> 
> $button 52 ;Pitch_Oct -
>   .showvalue on
>   .default $3FFF
>   .mode incval -1
>   .minmax $3FFC $3FFF
>  .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $00 $00 $01 $00 $00 $00 $0B $00 $00 $0F
> val8.11 val4.7 val0.3 $F7
> 
> I could not figure out how to enter this kind of information (button
> 52) from your editor. When I open this in your editor it shows.
> Default=16383 min=16380 max=16383 inc=-1.
> I could not find documentation of what 16383 is?

The min and max numbers shown by BC Manager (Value 1 and 2 nowadays,
actually) are exactly the same as the ones Royce instructed you to
use: $3FFF is simply 16383 in hexadecimal notation, and $3FFC is 16380.

In your previous mail you suggested that BC Manager "converts" the
negative values, but I'm kind of relieved that this turns out to be
not the case: Royce's default and minmax statements don't use negative
numbers either - it's simply a restriction of the BCR (and indeed
MIDI) that you can't use negative numbers as such.

It's just a matter of how your VFX works, in the sense that it
interprets $3FFF=16383 as a negative number.

> This left me frustrated, however when I tested it it worked.

Yes, BCL (the B-Control Language) allows both decimal and hexadecimal
notation after ".default" and ".minmax" (and in many other places).

> Now can we get button 50 and button 52 into one button control, so
> they increment up thru or down 1, 2, 3, 4, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0, or
> something like this?
> Same question on knobs..
> Also - I have several other controls for my vfx that run a range of
> -127...127, several that run -99...99 and one that goes -12...12. 
> So the knob runs 0 in the middle as default, then left down negative
> side, back up to middle 0, right up the positive side. 
> Can I get that into one knob? Does my explanation make sense?
> An example would be pitch lfo modulation amount - goes -127...127, so
> that when the value is negative the pitch sweep is reversed, very nice
> to have control over. 

I've racked my brains over this problem, but I can't see a way to do
this. The problem is simply that the BCR doesn't allow a "wrapped"
range from e.g. 16380 to 4 (meaning -4 to +4 on the VFX). Maybe the
best you can do is to use a pair of encoders, similar to the way Royce
helped you with for buttons, but I totally admit that it's silly that
it probably can't be done via a single encoder.

Mark.

Re: BCman feature request

2008-06-10 by k5kip_1999

I think I understand what you mean, although I have not tried the process.
If someone has a mac, this won't help.
I strongly feel that export a single preset to .syx is needed.
One that would not include $global but would only include the $preset,
all the data for the preset and the $storex (for where ever in the
preset list it currently resides.
This makes it so anyone can just dump the .syx using whatever they
have. Otherwise - for me to release a preset I have to -
1. Make it with your editor.
2. Export to text.
3. Open it in Royces
4. Edit out the other stuff I don't want
5. Save as .syx.
6. Post for "all" mac/pc to use.

I will attempt you process below.

Kip


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Mark van den Berg" <markwinvdb@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@> wrote:
> > Another thought would be asking to be able to export just one preset
> > to sysex.  The presets, intending to distribute, I have been working
> > on, require me to edit it in Royce's editor (removing the $global and
> > other $preset and $store x commands so my presets won't overwrite
> > another persons whole bcr. 
> > So - is there any way to export selected preset(s) instead of the
> > whole thing as .syx?
> 
> My first thought was that I could add an "Export selected preset(s)" 
> feature to the preset list window.
> However, I then realized that you may already be able to do what you 
> want via the BCL Editor window. It's perhaps a bit clumsy, but not
> VERY clumsy, hopefully...:
> 
> 1. In the presets list window, select (highlight) the preset(s) of
> your choice.
> 
> 2. Open the BCL Editor window via the "View" pull-down menu of the 
> B-Controls window.
> 
> 3. Execute "Load->Selected presets" from the BCL Editor window. This 
> copies the selected preset(s) to the BCL Editor window in the form of 
> the BCL text.
> Note: if the range of selected presets includes one or more MEMORY 
> presets, you still get a $store statement after each memory preset,
> and you also automatically get the TEMPORARY preset at the end. So for
> your needs it may be best to only select the TEMPORARY preset ("preset
> 0"): in that case you only get the $rev statement, the actual
> temporary preset, and the final $end, so without any $store. (Note
> that you can simply copy any memory preset to the temporary preset by
> pressing the spacebar in the preset list window.)
> 
> 4. Execute "Save" from the BCL Editor window. This saves the text in
> the BCL Editor window to a ".txt" file. (So not to a syx file - I
> don't know if that's a problem.)
> 
> Does this suffice?
> 
> Mark.
>

Re: BCman feature request

2008-06-10 by k5kip_1999

> 
> 1. In the presets list window, select (highlight) the preset(s) of
> your choice.
> 
> 2. Open the BCL Editor window via the "View" pull-down menu of the 
> B-Controls window.
> 
> 3. Execute "Load->Selected presets" from the BCL Editor window. This 
> copies the selected preset(s) to the BCL Editor window in the form of 
> the BCL text.
> Note: if the range of selected presets includes one or more MEMORY 
> presets, you still get a $store statement after each memory preset,
> and you also automatically get the TEMPORARY preset at the end. So for
> your needs it may be best to only select the TEMPORARY preset ("preset
> 0"): in that case you only get the $rev statement, the actual
> temporary preset, and the final $end, so without any $store. (Note
> that you can simply copy any memory preset to the temporary preset by
> pressing the spacebar in the preset list window.)
> 
> 4. Execute "Save" from the BCL Editor window. This saves the text in
> the BCL Editor window to a ".txt" file. (So not to a syx file - I
> don't know if that's a problem.)

Mark, I follow your process, this was the first time I opened the BCL
editor. I did not know it was there or what it was!  

Two things would make this (the process of sharing presets with
others) work great.

All in the BCL window.
1 - A way to use the mouse wheel to scroll up and down the file. To
make working in the BCL editor window a bit easier.
2 - A "save as" dialog that included saving as sysex, whatever is in
the BCL editor.

Sysex is really needed for users who don't want to mess with all this.
When some of us make presets, they need to be VERY easy for ppl to
work with our they won't use them.
And they need to be easy for mac users to work with.

Another thought - 
Import preset in the Presets window.
So - select a preset in the Presets window. (empty or full)
File>(suggested new element)Import preset.
It sends that (imported) preset data, (.bc2 , .txt or .syx) to that
selected preset location.
Perhaps you have way to do this already.
Just a thought.

Sorry - one other thought, while I am here.
Is there a way to have the print strips actually bring up the printer
dialog?  And a way to save the print strips output to a file?

Thanks again, for all the hard work Mark!
Cheers to you.

Re: BCman feature request

2008-06-15 by Mark van den Berg

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@...> wrote:
> Two things would make this (the process of sharing presets with
> others) work great.
> 
> All in the BCL window.
> 1 - A way to use the mouse wheel to scroll up and down the file. To
> make working in the BCL editor window a bit easier.

I can add a vertical (and even a horizontal) scrollbar to the "memo"
control involved.
(By the way, before you ask: in the past I have also tried to get the
BCL editor's current line number on the statusbar, but stupidly the
"memo" control doesn't notify the program when the cursor position
changes, at least not "easily" - I'd have to dig deep into the Windows
message system for this.)

> 2 - A "save as" dialog that included saving as sysex, whatever is in
> the BCL editor.

Done! In vs. 1.3.1 (upcoming) you can export the BCL editor's content
directly to syx/txt/bc2.

Actually, BC Manager already had a txt to syx file conversion routine 
(accessible from the main window), but I admit that being able to save 
directly to syx from the BCL editor window is much easier.

> Another thought - 
> Import preset in the Presets window.
> So - select a preset in the Presets window. (empty or full)
> File>(suggested new element)Import preset.

This is a lot trickier than you might think: I'd have to reprogram BC
Manager's BCL interpreter so that it does NOT accept any other data
than a preset. And should we accept a memory preset (i.e. one with
$store attached)?

> It sends that (imported) preset data, (.bc2 , .txt or .syx) to that
> selected preset location.
> Perhaps you have way to do this already.

Well, this is possible from the BCL editor window: Open + Execute.

> Is there a way to have the print strips actually bring up the printer
> dialog?

Why would you want this? (And which dialog exactly?)

> And a way to save the print strips output to a file?

Creating graphical file formats (such as metafiles (wmf/emf)) is a
very complicated business concerning scaling, fonts etc. Which format
are you thinking of? (If you're thinking of "prn" files: I have no
idea how I should create those.)

Mark.

Re: BCman feature request

2008-06-15 by k5kip_1999

Good morning Mark!

BTW, yesterday after much trial and error I figure out how to make an indexed (bookmarked and hotlinked with table of contents) pdf file using Open Office 2.4!

Also, I was thinking this morning, that maybe a screen movie would be better for the getting started. I will experiment and get back to you. Then I could post it on youtube, along with the bcr2000 + Live demo movie I already did.

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Mark van den Berg" wrote:
>
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" k5kip_1999@ wrote:
> > Two things would make this (the process of sharing presets with
> > others) work great.
> >
> > All in the BCL window.
> > 1 - A way to use the mouse wheel to scroll up and down the file. To
> > make working in the BCL editor window a bit easier.
>
> I can add a vertical (and even a horizontal) scrollbar to the "memo"
> control involved.
> (By the way, before you ask: in the past I have also tried to get the
> BCL editor's current line number on the statusbar, but stupidly the
> "memo" control doesn't notify the program when the cursor position
> changes, at least not "easily" - I'd have to dig deep into the Windows
> message system for this.)
>
> > 2 - A "save as" dialog that included saving as sysex, whatever is in
> > the BCL editor.
>
> Done! In vs. 1.3.1 (upcoming) you can export the BCL editor's content
> directly to syx/txt/bc2.
>
> Actually, BC Manager already had a txt to syx file conversion routine
> (accessible from the main window), but I admit that being able to save
> directly to syx from the BCL editor window is much easier.

Thank you!

>
> > Another thought -
> > Import preset in the Presets window.
> > So - select a preset in the Presets window. (empty or full)
> > File>(suggested new element)Import preset.
>
> This is a lot trickier than you might think: I'd have to reprogram BC
> Manager's BCL interpreter so that it does NOT accept any other data
> than a preset. And should we accept a memory preset (i.e. one with
> $store attached)?
>

Yeah, I see what you mean, yes it would have to filter out the $store and any $Global stuff and how would you define that filter? Ignore $Global to $preset and $store x to $end.
Then tack $preset back in at the front, and $end...
My only reason for the request is for building banks of presets from other separate syx or text/bc2 files. Perhaps there is already a way to do this, without opening and closing and copy pasting...
I can live without it, just a thought, they can't all be good ones or practical.


> > It sends that (imported) preset data, (.bc2 , .txt or .syx) to that
> > selected preset location.
> > Perhaps you have way to do this already.
>
> Well, this is possible from the BCL editor window: Open + Execute.
>

Yup - I discovered this. Sorry...

> > Is there a way to have the print strips actually bring up the printer
> > dialog?
>
> Why would you want this? (And which dialog exactly?)
>

If I am working on a computer without a printer or one with several attached, print strips sends the file to whatever the default printer is.
Here's an image of what I was thinking.

[URL=http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=printselectns2.gif][IMG]http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1197/printselectns2.th.gif[/IMG][/URL]


> > And a way to save the print strips output to a file?
>
> Creating graphical file formats (such as metafiles (wmf/emf)) is a
> very complicated business concerning scaling, fonts etc. Which format
> are you thinking of? (If you're thinking of "prn" files: I have no
> idea how I should create those.)

First I was thinking of as a .bmp or something.
What format is it now? I mean you have to send this to print as something, right?
I think the print dialog I mentioned about has print to file (checkbox), which is, I think, a .prn.

Very well, Mark, I do get the message, you are trying to scale back from bcmanager.
I will stop giving you more work. Except for one thing - undo.

Thanks Mark!


Re: BCman feature request

2008-06-15 by k5kip_1999

I thought the image would show up, sorry.
Here it is. 

http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=printselectns2.gif

Re: BCman feature request

2008-06-16 by Mark van den Berg

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@...> wrote:
> Good morning Mark!

"One man's morning is another man's night."?

>  > > Another thought -
>  > > Import preset in the Presets window.
>  > > So - select a preset in the Presets window. (empty or full)
>  > > File>(suggested new element)Import preset.
>  >
>  > This is a lot trickier than you might think: I'd have to reprogram BC
>  > Manager's BCL interpreter so that it does NOT accept any other data
>  > than a preset. And should we accept a memory preset (i.e. one with
>  > $store attached)?
>  >
> 
> Yeah, I see what you mean, yes it would have to filter out the $store 
> and any $Global stuff and how would you define that filter?  Ignore 
> $Global to $preset and $store x to $end.
> Then tack $preset back in at the front, and $end...
> My only reason for the request is for building banks of presets from 
> other separate syx or text/bc2 files.  Perhaps there is already a
way to 
> do this, without opening and closing and copy pasting...

Actually, this morning I suddenly realized that you can basically
simply use the File -> Open feature from the B-Controls window,
because it does NOT first initialize the whole data area before
loading the data from the input file. So the input file can contain
any BCL data you like: presets or even individual buttons etc.
The only "problem" is that the Open operation renames the "current
file name" to your imported file each time. So I think I could simply
add an "Import" operation to the same menu that simply doesn't rename
the "current file name".

>  > > Is there a way to have the print strips actually bring up the
printer
>  > > dialog?
>  >
>  > Why would you want this? (And which dialog exactly?)
>  >
> If I am working on a computer without a printer or one with several 
> attached, print strips sends the file to whatever the default
printer is.
> Here's an image of what I was thinking.
> 
>
[URL=http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=printselectns2.gif][IMG]http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1197/printselectns2.th.gif[/IMG][/URL]

First of all: It turns out that under Windows there are really a LOT
of printer-related dialog boxes! I think I recognize this type of
dialog box, but I somehow can't produce it on my computer (Windows
XP(+SP2)). So how exactly do you get to see this dialog box?

Secondly: I think you can already do exactly what you want (i.e.
deviate from the default printer) via BC Manager's main menu: Options
-> Printer. As I realized only a few weeks ago, it turns out that
anything you set in that dialog box only holds for the current run of
BC Manager: once you restart BC Manager you get the defaults again.

> What format is it now? I mean you have to send this to print as 
> something, right?

Frankly I have no idea how it works. BC Manager just defines a printer
object (as defined by a programming library I'm using), then it draws
a number of lines and characters on that printer's "canvas". So I
suppose it uses the native printing language of the actual printer
being used.

> I think the print dialog I mentioned about has print to file
(checkbox), 
> which is, I think, a .prn.

Yes, I already noticed the "Print to file" checkbox in your dialog
box. So that's curious too: for some reason the programming library
I'm using doesn't lead to that "offer".
(In fact, I guess the ".prn" file contains indeed exactly the
printer-dependent instructions for printing.)

> First I was thinking of as a .bmp or something.

It might be possible, but the main problem with bmp is that the
resulting file gets pretty huge if it has to represent a
high-resolution (e.g. 600 dpi) image, even in black & white.

Last Saturday, after your first question about print files, I
experimented for several hours with Windows metafiles (emf/wmf). These
should be able to provide a very compact representation of the drawn
objects (i.e. lines + text, in case of BC element strips), but in
accordance with my previous experiences with metafiles, it turned out
to be very hard to get them right in terms of scaling etc., in
relationship with the image and word processors that can read
metafiles. And besides, a metafile doesn't constitute a 1-to-1
representation of what you get when you print to the printer directly,
so it's kind of dangerous in that sense. Anyway, I'll see if I can get
the metafile format correct quickly, otherwise I'll abandon it for the
moment.

> I will stop giving you more work. Except for one thing - undo.

This is a bit ironic, perhaps: from a programmer's point of view, an
"Undo" feature (in particular an application-wide one) is absolutely
one of the most horribly difficult and time-consuming things to
implement: I don't think I've ever seen a professional word processor
or programming environment whose Undo function was NOT buggy in some
way. The problem is this: the more editing operations a program has,
the more difficult it is to keep track of all the interacting effects
of these operations, hence the more difficult it is to reverse all
these operations. So I don't think that it is on the cards in the near
future, but I've added it to the "Wish list"...

> I have had to restart bcmanager several times, when I cut a line then go
> to paste but do something in the wrong order. This is the case, say when
> I am revising a layout.  Moving things around to better suit me.  I get
> stuck, I copy something then paste or paste the last thing before i
> cut... I really need an undo. Otherwise I have to stop close not save,
> start over since last save and I don't save after every single move,
> although I could.

Instead of closing, couldn't you just reopen the current file?

One thing that might also help in this respect: you can open as many 
"B-Controls" as you wish (you don't have to "link" each of them to a
real BCF/BCR or even a file) - so instead of saving your intermediate 
presets (or even buttons etc.) to file, you could copy them to another
"B-Control" now and then.

Mark.

Re: BCman feature request

2008-06-16 by k5kip_1999

>
> "One man's morning is another man's night."?
>
> >  > > Another thought -
> >  > > Import preset in the Presets window.
> >  > > So - select a preset in the Presets window. (empty or full)
> >  > > File>(suggested new element)Import preset.
> >  >
> >  > This is a lot trickier than you might think: I'd have to
reprogram BC
> >  > Manager's BCL interpreter so that it does NOT accept any other
data
> >  > than a preset. And should we accept a memory preset (i.e. one
with
> >  > $store attached)?
> >  >
> >
> > Yeah, I see what you mean, yes it would have to filter out the
$store
> > and any $Global stuff and how would you define that filter?  Ignore
> > $Global to $preset and $store x to $end.
> > Then tack $preset back in at the front, and $end...
> > My only reason for the request is for building banks of presets from
> > other separate syx or text/bc2 files.  Perhaps there is already a
> way to
> > do this, without opening and closing and copy pasting...
>
> Actually, this morning I suddenly realized that you can basically
> simply use the File -> Open feature from the B-Controls window,
> because it does NOT first initialize the whole data area before
> loading the data from the input file. So the input file can contain
> any BCL data you like: presets or even individual buttons etc.
> The only "problem" is that the Open operation renames the "current
> file name" to your imported file each time. So I think I could simply
> add an "Import" operation to the same menu that simply doesn't rename
> the "current file name".
>

Ok - I will do that next from now on.  If I would just do the correct
command in the first place, there would be no trouble!

> >  > > Is there a way to have the print strips actually bring up the
> printer
> >  > > dialog?
> >  >
> >  > Why would you want this? (And which dialog exactly?)
> >  >
> > If I am working on a computer without a printer or one with several
> > attached, print strips sends the file to whatever the default
> printer is.
> > Here's an image of what I was thinking.
> >
> >
>
[URL=http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=printselectns2.gif][IMG]ht\
tp://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1197/printselectns2.th.gif[/IMG][/URL]
>
> First of all: It turns out that under Windows there are really a LOT
> of printer-related dialog boxes! I think I recognize this type of
> dialog box, but I somehow can't produce it on my computer (Windows
> XP(+SP2)). So how exactly do you get to see this dialog box?

XP + SP2 - I just brought up notepad then went file> print, the above
image was the result.

>
> Secondly: I think you can already do exactly what you want (i.e.
> deviate from the default printer) via BC Manager's main menu: Options
> -> Printer. As I realized only a few weeks ago, it turns out that
> anything you set in that dialog box only holds for the current run of
> BC Manager: once you restart BC Manager you get the defaults again.

Sorry - you are correct!  Not sure how I did not see that.

>
> > What format is it now? I mean you have to send this to print as
> > something, right?
>
> Frankly I have no idea how it works. BC Manager just defines a printer
> object (as defined by a programming library I'm using), then it draws
> a number of lines and characters on that printer's "canvas". So I
> suppose it uses the native printing language of the actual printer
> being used.
>
> > I think the print dialog I mentioned about has print to file
> (checkbox),
> > which is, I think, a .prn.
>
> Yes, I already noticed the "Print to file" checkbox in your dialog
> box. So that's curious too: for some reason the programming library
> I'm using doesn't lead to that "offer".
> (In fact, I guess the ".prn" file contains indeed exactly the
> printer-dependent instructions for printing.)
>
> > First I was thinking of as a .bmp or something.
>
> It might be possible, but the main problem with bmp is that the
> resulting file gets pretty huge if it has to represent a
> high-resolution (e.g. 600 dpi) image, even in black & white.

Why would it need to be 600 dpi?  150 is fine for print? I understand
tho...
I will stop bothering you Mark!

>
> Last Saturday, after your first question about print files, I
> experimented for several hours with Windows metafiles (emf/wmf). These
> should be able to provide a very compact representation of the drawn
> objects (i.e. lines + text, in case of BC element strips), but in
> accordance with my previous experiences with metafiles, it turned out
> to be very hard to get them right in terms of scaling etc., in
> relationship with the image and word processors that can read
> metafiles. And besides, a metafile doesn't constitute a 1-to-1
> representation of what you get when you print to the printer directly,
> so it's kind of dangerous in that sense. Anyway, I'll see if I can get
> the metafile format correct quickly, otherwise I'll abandon it for the
> moment.

Sorry - again, I will leave you alone now.

>
> > I will stop giving you more work. Except for one thing - undo.
>
> This is a bit ironic, perhaps: from a programmer's point of view, an
> "Undo" feature (in particular an application-wide one) is absolutely
> one of the most horribly difficult and time-consuming things to
> implement: I don't think I've ever seen a professional word processor
> or programming environment whose Undo function was NOT buggy in some
> way. The problem is this: the more editing operations a program has,
> the more difficult it is to keep track of all the interacting effects
> of these operations, hence the more difficult it is to reverse all
> these operations. So I don't think that it is on the cards in the near
> future, but I've added it to the "Wish list"...

I was just thinking undo last command.
It sounds pretty complicated.

>
> > I have had to restart bcmanager several times, when I cut a line
then go
> > to paste but do something in the wrong order. This is the case, say
when
> > I am revising a layout.  Moving things around to better suit me.  I
get
> > stuck, I copy something then paste or paste the last thing before i
> > cut... I really need an undo. Otherwise I have to stop close not
save,
> > start over since last save and I don't save after every single move,
> > although I could.
>
> Instead of closing, couldn't you just reopen the current file?
>

Again - you have the simple answer - that  I could not see.
Thanks.

> One thing that might also help in this respect: you can open as many
> "B-Controls" as you wish (you don't have to "link" each of them to a
> real BCF/BCR or even a file) - so instead of saving your intermediate
> presets (or even buttons etc.) to file, you could copy them to another
> "B-Control" now and then.

I had not thought of that either - thanks Mark.

I will stop requesting things, now.

I will go my merry way.

Royce will say, "He's lying", he'll be back!

Re: BCman feature request

2008-06-23 by Mark van den Berg

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@...> wrote:
> XP + SP2 - I just brought up notepad then went file> print, the above
> image was the result.

Ah yes, thank you: I get the same dialog box this way. So at least 
Notepad knows how to print to a file. I'm afraid I still don't - but 
hey: everyone knows Bill Gates is a lot cleverer (hence: richer) than
me...

>>> First I was thinking of as a .bmp or something.
>> It might be possible, but the main problem with bmp is that the
>> resulting file gets pretty huge if it has to represent a
>> high-resolution (e.g. 600 dpi) image, even in black & white.
> 
> Why would it need to be 600 dpi?  150 is fine for print? I understand
> tho...

Well, one of the main reasons for the "print strips" operation is 
exactly the high font resolution: whereas if you use the "print window
image" operation, you get a pretty awful resolution (in printing terms).

Mark.

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