Bc2000 (for the BCF2000 & BCR2000)

scanned through the midi implementation document, but I wasn't sure of
myself, and I know there are people here who know a little more than I do.
I'm thinking of sending sysex to the BCR to change the lcd state.
As far as I can tell the .mode command will do it. 
I think an example might help me explain:

- I have a bcr preset, sending cc's into a Max patch which is a midi
translator. Encoders are all initially set to 1 dot.
- The Max preset emulates the Frontier Alphatrack, akin to Mackie
Control Emulation, but always based on the selected track rather than
banks of eight tracks. It also receives sysex from my host, which
indicates e.g. levels, and on/off state, of effects.
- If I receive a message from the host into Max, which states On or
Off, I would like to be able to send a message to the BCR which sets
the encoder led ring to e.g. 12 dot, and send a value to represent On
or Off visually.

Max, in case you don't know, is a visual programming environment,
useful for dealing with midi. Google maxmsp.

So, can that be done?
Can I just convert BCL messages from ascii to hex (sysex)?
which commands would I need to send for something like that... just
$encoder?

Thanks,
Matthew

Hi
> I'm thinking of sending sysex to the BCR to change the lcd state.
> As far as I can tell the .mode command will do it. 
> I think an example might help me explain:

The LEDs can't be reset by themselves

$encoder 1 resets the encoder to its off state

.showvalue off
.mode 1dot
.resolution 0 0 0 0   ;this prevents any output from the encoder
.minmax 0 0 

You have to send all the encoder programming with the change in the
mode statement.

> 
> - I have a bcr preset, sending cc's into a Max patch which is a midi
> translator. Encoders are all initially set to 1 dot.
> - The Max preset emulates the Frontier Alphatrack, akin to Mackie
> Control Emulation, but always based on the selected track rather than
> banks of eight tracks. It also receives sysex from my host, which
> indicates e.g. levels, and on/off state, of effects.
> - If I receive a message from the host into Max, which states On or
> Off, I would like to be able to send a message to the BCR which sets
> the encoder led ring to e.g. 12 dot, and send a value to represent On
> or Off visually.
> 
> Max, in case you don't know, is a visual programming environment,
> useful for dealing with midi. Google maxmsp.
> 
> So, can that be done?
Yes but you have to send all the encoder details (make sure you don't send

$preset
 .init


> Can I just convert BCL messages from ascii to hex (sysex)?

The easiest way is to write it in Mark's or my editor and convert it
to sysex file and read it with either Max or MidiOx and copy it to Max

The sysex has a header and a line counter that the editors will
automatically put in.

> which commands would I need to send for something like that... just
> $encoder?
Here is the text that needs to be converted  to sysex to put into Max


$rev R1  ; for the BCR  F1 for the BCF
$encoder 1
  .showvalue on
  .... all the encoder stuff
  . mode 12dot
  .default  0 ;what is the on value???
  .tx whatever you Midi Message is

$end

If you get into trouble with this, re-post with more details of the
Midi messages and the range of value you expect the BCR to output

All the best

Royce

Fellow faderfolks,

My name is Theo, I run a middle class recording studio in Harderwijk,
the Netherlands.

A while ago I acquired a used BCF2000 and after it's been sitting on a
shelf for a few months I finally got around to connecting it this week.
But I'm running into trouble:

As soon as I connect a USB plug to the BCF2000 it seems to crash: it
looks like it's restarting and not starting up completely, instead it
gets stuck with only one led on the display or in the buttons near the
display, burning very bright. In that state the BCF will not respond to
anything, pushing buttons or whatever.

I've tried several things to get it working: 3 different computers (of
which one laptop), different USB cables, different USB ports,
pre-installing driver software, settting different USB modes, starting
the BCF up in different modes etc. but no luck so far.
Sometimes it seems to work for one second, computer makes a new hardware
found sound, but immediately after that, before windows gets a chance to
install a driver, I already hear the 'hardware unplugged' sound and the
BCF2000 gets stuck again.

I also noticed that sometimes it already crashes when I just hold the
shield of the usb connector against the metal of the usb port on the
BCF2000. I even noticed small sparks then, which would indicate a
different potential between computer ground and BCF2000 ground. The
computer is connected to a grounded outlet, the BCF2000 is a class 2
device so I can't ground it. Does this indicate the BCF2000 has a power
supply problem? The sparks seemed mostly gone when I reversed the AC
plug on the BCF2000. By the way, the crashes also happened when
connecting it to my laptop which is also a class 2 (not grounded)
device.

Eventually I gave up on the USB connection and connected the BCF to my 8
port midi interface (known good). That doesn't crash it, and when I use
Midi-OX (a great midi monitoring and translation tool) and I set the BCF
to standalone mode 3 I can see it sending some messages out on some
presets (P-5 mainly) when pushing buttons.
However, when I try to program one of the faders to send out a CC
change, exactly following the steps in the manual, it doesn't seem to
send out anything. Going to preset 5 and pushing the rightmost encoder
button does seem to send out some CC message, but it's not always the
same. I get the feeling that even though the leds etc. are consistent on
the BCF it sends out random or corrupted data.

Setting the standalone mode to 3 I noticed there is also an S4 mode
which is not described in the manual. Is this a new thing in firmware
1.10? What does it do?

The only bit of luck I had in getting the BCF2000 to do at least
something is starting it up in Mackie Control mode, and setting up Adobe
Audition (3.0) to receive mackie control messages.
That way, I can move faders in Audition's mixer, and the BCF faders move
along too if I move a fader on the screen using the mouse. But there
seems to be an unpleasant delay between moving a fader and
seeing/hearing the result and the faders move on screen and everything
seems to respond in little shocks. The computer should be keeping up,
it's a recent E6750 machine running XP with 2 GB of RAM and plenty disk
space, it runs everything else just fine and midi sequencing (using
Nuendo) doesn't give me any trouble too.

Does anyone here recognize any of this trouble or better, know of a
solution?
I feel the USB interface is simply broken but the former owner insists
that it worked for him, he knew the problem but got around it eventually
somehow (but didn't remember exactly how).

I could live with the MIDI connection instead of USB as long as it's
fast and reliable and everything responds as per the manual. Any
suggestions?

Does Behringer (or anyone in .nl) service the BCF2000 or will they
simply advise me to get a new one?

Any help, advice or idea on any of these problems and questions is
appreciated!

Regards,

Theo Fokkema
Rocktech.nl

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, <badmuts@...> wrote:
> As soon as I connect a USB plug to the BCF2000 it seems to crash: it
> looks like it's restarting and not starting up completely, instead it
> gets stuck with only one led on the display or in the buttons near the
> display, burning very bright. In that state the BCF will not respond to
> anything, pushing buttons or whatever.
> 
> I've tried several things to get it working: 3 different computers (of
> which one laptop), different USB cables, different USB ports,
> pre-installing driver software, settting different USB modes, starting
> the BCF up in different modes etc. but no luck so far.
> Sometimes it seems to work for one second, computer makes a new hardware
> found sound, but immediately after that, before windows gets a chance to
> install a driver, I already hear the 'hardware unplugged' sound and the
> BCF2000 gets stuck again.
> 
> I also noticed that sometimes it already crashes when I just hold the
> shield of the usb connector against the metal of the usb port on the
> BCF2000. I even noticed small sparks then, which would indicate a
> different potential between computer ground and BCF2000 ground. The
> computer is connected to a grounded outlet, the BCF2000 is a class 2
> device so I can't ground it. Does this indicate the BCF2000 has a power
> supply problem? The sparks seemed mostly gone when I reversed the AC
> plug on the BCF2000. By the way, the crashes also happened when
> connecting it to my laptop which is also a class 2 (not grounded)
> device.

It definitely sounds like the USB controller on the BCF is faulty.
This is not unheard-of: in this forum, several people (including
me...!) have reported hardware-problems with their USB controller
(though probably not as severe as yours).

One point though: I get the impression that you sometimes connect and
disconnect the USB cable while the BCF is on. I would strongly advise
against that. Personally I take no risks whatsoever nowadays: I only
connect/disconnect any USB cable when BOTH the connected device (e.g.
BCF/BCR) AND the computer have been switched off. (E.g. the manual of
my HP Laserjet 1018 printer actually warns against connecting the USB
cable when the printer is on: it says that you can damage the printer
if you do so.)

> Eventually I gave up on the USB connection and connected the BCF to my 8
> port midi interface (known good). That doesn't crash it, and when I use
> Midi-OX (a great midi monitoring and translation tool) and I set the BCF
> to standalone mode 3 I can see it sending some messages out on some
> presets (P-5 mainly) when pushing buttons.
> However, when I try to program one of the faders to send out a CC
> change, exactly following the steps in the manual, it doesn't seem to
> send out anything. Going to preset 5 and pushing the rightmost encoder
> button does seem to send out some CC message, but it's not always the
> same. I get the feeling that even though the leds etc. are consistent on
> the BCF it sends out random or corrupted data.

There are several reasons why a BCF might seem to send unexepected
data. Unfortunately there is no way to initialize it to its factory
settings. You might try using a BC editor to control its settings more
easily. See e.g. the "Applications" folder in the Files section of the
Yahoo group.

> Setting the standalone mode to 3 I noticed there is also an S4 mode
> which is not described in the manual. Is this a new thing in firmware
> 1.10? What does it do?

Have you got an older version of the manual? Version 1.1, October 2004
(downloadable from www.behringer.com) does describe S-4.

> The only bit of luck I had in getting the BCF2000 to do at least
> something is starting it up in Mackie Control mode, and setting up Adobe
> Audition (3.0) to receive mackie control messages.
> That way, I can move faders in Audition's mixer, and the BCF faders move
> along too if I move a fader on the screen using the mouse. But there
> seems to be an unpleasant delay between moving a fader and
> seeing/hearing the result and the faders move on screen and everything
> seems to respond in little shocks. The computer should be keeping up,
> it's a recent E6750 machine running XP with 2 GB of RAM and plenty disk
> space, it runs everything else just fine and midi sequencing (using
> Nuendo) doesn't give me any trouble too.

There could be various reasons for this.
You might try looking at the BCF's "MIDI Data Interval" (or
"Transmission Interval") setting. This is editable via Push Encoder 8
in Global Setup mode (EDIT+STORE) - see par. 4.5 of the official
B-Control manual (vs. 1.1), and also "BC MIDI Implementation.pdf"
(par. 10.6).

> I feel the USB interface is simply broken but the former owner insists
> that it worked for him, he knew the problem but got around it eventually
> somehow (but didn't remember exactly how).

Strange: if it's so essential, how come he has forgotten...?

> I could live with the MIDI connection instead of USB as long as it's
> fast and reliable and everything responds as per the manual. Any
> suggestions?

I agree completely that you should first try to get the standard MIDI
connection working: once that works in all respects, you'll know that
"only" the USB controller is faulty. But if even standard MIDI doesn't
work, it's probably hopeless.

One thing you might try is reinstall the BCF's firmware. (I recommend
using BC Manager for this - but I may be a bit biased...)
You could also look at sections 20 and 21 of "BC MIDI
Implementation.pdf" for a few things (concerning startup modes etc.)
you might try.

> Does Behringer (or anyone in .nl) service the BCF2000 or will they
> simply advise me to get a new one?

There is no Behringer distributor in the Netherlands: the Netherlands
falls directly under Behringer Germany, so you'd have to deal with
them. If the BCF falls within the TWO-year warranty period (which I
guess yours doesn't - but maybe you could ask the previous owner), one
can simply go the dealer - in my case (a faulty USB controller on my
BCR) the dealer simply gave me another BCR (more than a year after I
bought it!). But otherwise it's probably not worth repairing the
thing: sending it to Behringer Germany etc.

Mark.

Mark, (are you dutch? Sounds like it!)

Thanks for your extensive reply. 
Unfortunately I'd already given up the hope with this thing and getting
an answer from this list, so I put it for sale on a market site (with
honest mentioning of the problems and a note not to expect tech support
or guarantee from me) and got a reasonable bid, so it probably will be
gone from my studio soon.
I will still try to mess with the midi delay parameter you mentioned
though.

As I still need a control surface I'll probably get another BCF2000
(does anyone here have one for sale in the Netherlands?) that hopefully
works better and has a working USB interface. I may even order a new one
- do the white ones turn yellow over time?

Best regards,

Theo