Bc2000 (for the BCF2000 & BCR2000)

im running 4 bcr2000's with reason 5   . . .any one had this problem ? 

(just had to re set up my 4 bcr's with reason a pc due to a macbookpro in the doctors....)

reason recognises all 4 (i have been able to map most buttons and encoders), but when it powers up only 1 has the the 16 buttons lit up .3 have no led's on the bottom 3 rows of encoders 


oddly when u power them up when reason is off, 3 light up all the led's
any ideas ? 

also only one has the push button encoders in multi function....
saw a post on reason forum  about loading a remix mixer and creating a track to access the multi push encoders at the top but this only works for 1 of them.im thinking i may have a slow remote map exercise to do the encoders groups but the led's not working is a new one to me . .

is there any way u guys know to sort this out ?

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "bleepfunk" <bleepfunk@...> wrote:
> im running 4 bcr2000's with reason 5 . . .any one had this problem ?
> 
> (just had to re set up my 4 bcr's with reason a pc due to a macbookpro 
> in the doctors....)
> 
> reason recognises all 4 (i have been able to map most buttons and 
> encoders), but when it powers up only 1 has the the 16 buttons lit up .3 
> have no led's on the bottom 3 rows of encoders
> 
> oddly when u power them up when reason is off, 3 light up all the led's

There's nothing odd about this: what you see in this case is whatever is in the actual default memory preset on the BCR (as indicated by "P-.." in the display).

You should always power up the BCRs BEFORE starting Reason, particularly if the BCRs are in "U-1/2/3/4" (USB) operating mode. (Preferably U-1; if you're using "standard" MIDI, use S-4.)
When you start up Reason, any BCRs already defined via Edit -> Preferences -> 'Keyboards and Control Surfaces' (and with 'Use with Reason' checked) should start flashing their displays for a while: this flashing means that Reason is configuring the BCR's TEMPORARY preset (which has nothing to do with the content of the currently selected memory preset on the BCR, as indicated by "P-.." in the display).
Just to make sure about the connections, try unchecking, then rechecking 'Use with Reason' for each BCR: again the BCR's display should flash for a while.
Once all 4 BCRs respond in this way, you're in business: you can then "lock" any BCR to any Reason device via each Reason device's local menu (accessed by clicking the right mouse button).

For more info on how Reason works with the BCR, read section 18 of BC Manager Manual (available from http://home.kpn.nl/f2hmjvandenberg281/ ).
By the way: BC Manager itself allows you to view Reason's default mappings for its devices - in your case this might be very useful.

> also only one has the push button encoders in multi function....

This depends on the specific Reason device the BCR is locked to: some Reason devices use multiple 'encoder groups', others don't.

Hope this helps,
Mark.

hi mark and thanks for taking the time to offer some suggestions, apols in no immediate reply as a busy week with work and life.
most of ur tips i already was aware of
i always power on before launching reason
all bcr's are set to preset 1
ive tried both options of setting them to u1.u2,u3,u4 in sequence or all on u-1
they are all connected via a usb hub
this has all been done with an empty rack so none of them are pre assigned by reason to any temporary presets
i have tried the switch contoller off and back on in the reason presets, no change
again they are all recognised but on start up only 3 light up led's and when reason launches its worse
 
do u think  there is anyway to blank the behringer reason preset maps as they seem to be creating more problems than help ?
 
any further ideas appreciated :)
cheers again graham

hi mark and thanks for taking the time to offer some suggestions, apols in no immediate reply as a busy week with work and life.
most of ur tips i already was aware of
i always power on before launching reason
all bcr's are set to preset 1
ive tried both options of setting them to u1.u2,u3,u4 in sequence or all on u-1
they are all connected via a usb hub
this has all been done with an empty rack so none of them are pre assigned by reason to any temporary presets
i have tried the switch contoller off and back on in the reason presets, no change
again they are all recognised but on start up only 3 light up led's and when reason launches its worse
 
do u think  there is anyway to blank the behringer reason preset maps as they seem to be creating more problems than help ?
 
any further ideas appreciated :)
cheers again graham


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <markwinvdb@...> wrote:

>
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "bleepfunk" <bleepfunk@> wrote:
> > im running 4 bcr2000's with reason 5 . . .any one had this problem ?
> > 
> > (just had to re set up my 4 bcr's with reason a pc due to a macbookpro 
> > in the doctors....)
> > 
> > reason recognises all 4 (i have been able to map most buttons and 
> > encoders), but when it powers up only 1 has the the 16 buttons lit up .3 
> > have no led's on the bottom 3 rows of encoders
> > 
> > oddly when u power them up when reason is off, 3 light up all the led's
> 
> There's nothing odd about this: what you see in this case is whatever is in the actual default memory preset on the BCR (as indicated by "P-.." in the display).
> 
> You should always power up the BCRs BEFORE starting Reason, particularly if the BCRs are in "U-1/2/3/4" (USB) operating mode. (Preferably U-1; if you're using "standard" MIDI, use S-4.)
> When you start up Reason, any BCRs already defined via Edit -> Preferences -> 'Keyboards and Control Surfaces' (and with 'Use with Reason' checked) should start flashing their displays for a while: this flashing means that Reason is configuring the BCR's TEMPORARY preset (which has nothing to do with the content of the currently selected memory preset on the BCR, as indicated by "P-.." in the display).
> Just to make sure about the connections, try unchecking, then rechecking 'Use with Reason' for each BCR: again the BCR's display should flash for a while.
> Once all 4 BCRs respond in this way, you're in business: you can then "lock" any BCR to any Reason device via each Reason device's local menu (accessed by clicking the right mouse button).
> 
> For more info on how Reason works with the BCR, read section 18 of BC Manager Manual (available from http://home.kpn.nl/f2hmjvandenberg281/ ).
> By the way: BC Manager itself allows you to view Reason's default mappings for its devices - in your case this might be very useful.
> 
> > also only one has the push button encoders in multi function....
> 
> This depends on the specific Reason device the BCR is locked to: some Reason devices use multiple 'encoder groups', others don't.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Mark.
>

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Fletcher" <bleepfunk@...> wrote:
> they are all connected via a usb hub

I only have 1 BCR and 1 BCF, and no hub, so I don't really know about your situation, but I think I remember that the Behringer documentation warns against using a hub for a BCF/BCR (let alone multiple BCFs/BCRs). So the hub MIGHT be responsible for your problem, although my guess is that it is not.

> all bcr's are set to preset 1

For Reason it is completely irrelevant to which memory presets the BCRs have been set, because Reason "manually" configures the BCRs.

> ive tried both options of setting them to u1.u2,u3,u4 in sequence  or all on u-1

Do you mean you've tried a setup with BCR 1 in U-1, BCR 2 in U-2, etc.? That doesn't help: the U-mode number only determines the "wiring" to the BCR's MIDI IN and OUT sockets.
So it doesn't really matter in which U-modes the BCRs are, but for use with Reason U-1 is best (at least simplest), because U-1 doesn't generate confusing additional devices (linked to the BCR's MIDI sockets) in the MIDI I/O device lists, e.g. in Reason.
So at this stage I recommend simply setting all BCRs to U-1.

-----------------------------------

I suspect that your problems are related to the Device IDs of your BCRs:

Since you have 4 BCRs connected to the same hub, it seems to make sense to set each BCR to a different Device ID number, because each BCR's ID number ends up as part of its MIDI input and output device names on the computer. The Device ID also occurs (or rather: SHOULD occur - more about this later) in the MIDI System Exclusive messages that Reason outputs to set up a BCR.
To set up your "quartet" like this, you'd have to enter each BCR's Global Edit mode by holding EDIT and pressing STORE. Once the display says "EG", you can press the fifth push encoder to see the Device ID.
You could then set each BCR's Device ID to a different value, so e.g. BCR 1 to Id 1, BCR 2 to Id 2 etc. Then on the computer the MIDI I/O devices would be called "BCR2000[1]", "BCR2000[2]" (at least under Behringer's 1.2.1.3 driver; other drivers generate other names).

HOWEVER: I've discovered that Reason 5 is buggy concerning the handling of BCR Device IDs:

1. Reason INITIALIZES a BCR by giving each button and encoder its own particular MIDI Control Change number. This occurs when you check "Use with Reason" in the "Keyboards and Control Surfaces" dialog box, or when you start up Reason if the BCR has been defined previously.
During this initialization, Reason addresses the BCR via the "generic" Device ID of $7F: any receiving BCR reacts to this Device ID.

2. However, when Reason tries to customize the button and encoder LEDs (i.e. when you lock a BCR to a particular Reason device), Reason addresses the BCR via Device ID 1, irrespective of the actual Device ID on the BCR - so if the BCR's Device ID is different, the BCR doesn't accept this customization attempt, and the LEDs of the BCR's buttons and encoders remain off. Pressing/moving the buttons/encoders DOES affect the selected Reason device (because of the initialization performed in point 1 above), but the buttons/encoders don't (seem to) respond to changes FROM Reason.

Note that this behavior is completely independent of the number of BCRs: it happens to any BCR (even a solitary one) with a Device ID other than 1.

Conclusion: Reason cannot handle the above-described "sensible" setup where the 4 BCRs have Device IDs 1, 2, 3 and 4: any BCR only works well in Reason if its device ID is 1. (This is why Reason's "Keyboards and Control Surfaces" dialog box states that you need to set your BCR's Device ID to 1.)

However, the problem with setting all Device IDs to 1 is that it may cause low-level USB communication problems in a situation like yours, with multiple BCRs connected via the same USB hub.
Can the Behringer USB driver still distinguish between the 4 BCRs, even they all have their Device IDs set to 1?
I can't test this myself, so can you check Reason's MIDI Input/Output Port lists under "Keyboards and Control Surfaces" -> "Edit"?
Which MIDI I/O device names are shown in this situation?
If you see 4 separate MIDI input and output devices (with names like "BCR2000[1] 1", "BCR2000[1] 2" etc.), things MIGHT work. If not, it may be time to lodge a complaint with Propellerhead...

> this has all been done with an empty rack so none of them are pre
> assigned by reason to any temporary presets
> i have tried the switch contoller off and back on in the reason presets,
> no change
> again they are all recognised but on start up only 3 light up led's and
> when reason launches its worse
> do u think there is anyway to blank the behringer reason preset maps as
> they seem to be creating more problems than help ?

Assuming that my above theory about Device IDs is correct, it seems pointless to try to make things work by messing around with individual mappings in Reason.

Hope this helps,
Mark.

hi mark, one detail i hadn't mentioned and you highlighted in your response was the device i.d settings.i have now set all of them to the same device id number one and problem resolved !!!!!!!

i think i had had them set this way with my mac book pro and it had worked that way , but not with pc ?

anyway to recap, set all to u-1 mode and set all to device i.d 1.

really really appreciate the time you made to give such a detailed knowledgable answer...behringer should give you a job writing a manual! many thanks Graham ;-)

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <markwinvdb@...> wrote:

>
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Fletcher" <bleepfunk@> wrote:
> > they are all connected via a usb hub
> 
> I only have 1 BCR and 1 BCF, and no hub, so I don't really know about your situation, but I think I remember that the Behringer documentation warns against using a hub for a BCF/BCR (let alone multiple BCFs/BCRs). So the hub MIGHT be responsible for your problem, although my guess is that it is not.
> 
> > all bcr's are set to preset 1
> 
> For Reason it is completely irrelevant to which memory presets the BCRs have been set, because Reason "manually" configures the BCRs.
> 
> > ive tried both options of setting them to u1.u2,u3,u4 in sequence  or all on u-1
> 
> Do you mean you've tried a setup with BCR 1 in U-1, BCR 2 in U-2, etc.? That doesn't help: the U-mode number only determines the "wiring" to the BCR's MIDI IN and OUT sockets.
> So it doesn't really matter in which U-modes the BCRs are, but for use with Reason U-1 is best (at least simplest), because U-1 doesn't generate confusing additional devices (linked to the BCR's MIDI sockets) in the MIDI I/O device lists, e.g. in Reason.
> So at this stage I recommend simply setting all BCRs to U-1.
> 
> -----------------------------------
> 
> I suspect that your problems are related to the Device IDs of your BCRs:
> 
> Since you have 4 BCRs connected to the same hub, it seems to make sense to set each BCR to a different Device ID number, because each BCR's ID number ends up as part of its MIDI input and output device names on the computer. The Device ID also occurs (or rather: SHOULD occur - more about this later) in the MIDI System Exclusive messages that Reason outputs to set up a BCR.
> To set up your "quartet" like this, you'd have to enter each BCR's Global Edit mode by holding EDIT and pressing STORE. Once the display says "EG", you can press the fifth push encoder to see the Device ID.
> You could then set each BCR's Device ID to a different value, so e.g. BCR 1 to Id 1, BCR 2 to Id 2 etc. Then on the computer the MIDI I/O devices would be called "BCR2000[1]", "BCR2000[2]" (at least under Behringer's 1.2.1.3 driver; other drivers generate other names).
> 
> HOWEVER: I've discovered that Reason 5 is buggy concerning the handling of BCR Device IDs:
> 
> 1. Reason INITIALIZES a BCR by giving each button and encoder its own particular MIDI Control Change number. This occurs when you check "Use with Reason" in the "Keyboards and Control Surfaces" dialog box, or when you start up Reason if the BCR has been defined previously.
> During this initialization, Reason addresses the BCR via the "generic" Device ID of $7F: any receiving BCR reacts to this Device ID.
> 
> 2. However, when Reason tries to customize the button and encoder LEDs (i.e. when you lock a BCR to a particular Reason device), Reason addresses the BCR via Device ID 1, irrespective of the actual Device ID on the BCR - so if the BCR's Device ID is different, the BCR doesn't accept this customization attempt, and the LEDs of the BCR's buttons and encoders remain off. Pressing/moving the buttons/encoders DOES affect the selected Reason device (because of the initialization performed in point 1 above), but the buttons/encoders don't (seem to) respond to changes FROM Reason.
> 
> Note that this behavior is completely independent of the number of BCRs: it happens to any BCR (even a solitary one) with a Device ID other than 1.
> 
> Conclusion: Reason cannot handle the above-described "sensible" setup where the 4 BCRs have Device IDs 1, 2, 3 and 4: any BCR only works well in Reason if its device ID is 1. (This is why Reason's "Keyboards and Control Surfaces" dialog box states that you need to set your BCR's Device ID to 1.)
> 
> However, the problem with setting all Device IDs to 1 is that it may cause low-level USB communication problems in a situation like yours, with multiple BCRs connected via the same USB hub.
> Can the Behringer USB driver still distinguish between the 4 BCRs, even they all have their Device IDs set to 1?
> I can't test this myself, so can you check Reason's MIDI Input/Output Port lists under "Keyboards and Control Surfaces" -> "Edit"?
> Which MIDI I/O device names are shown in this situation?
> If you see 4 separate MIDI input and output devices (with names like "BCR2000[1] 1", "BCR2000[1] 2" etc.), things MIGHT work. If not, it may be time to lodge a complaint with Propellerhead...
> 
> > this has all been done with an empty rack so none of them are pre
> > assigned by reason to any temporary presets
> > i have tried the switch contoller off and back on in the reason presets,
> > no change
> > again they are all recognised but on start up only 3 light up led's and
> > when reason launches its worse
> > do u think there is anyway to blank the behringer reason preset maps as
> > they seem to be creating more problems than help ?
> 
> Assuming that my above theory about Device IDs is correct, it seems pointless to try to make things work by messing around with individual mappings in Reason.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Mark.
>