Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Integrating the BCR2000 with the Korg DW6000

2012-12-05 by Royce

After previous discussion about the BCR controlling a Crumar Bit01 synth I decided that I would write a program that I have been thinking about for a while.

The BC2k gear can do most things, but there are three areas that it misses out on.

1) You can't use negative numbers.
Well this is partially solved for smaller ranges (eg -7 to 7 is OK), but it is complicated and using 14 bit or greater is not possible (a lot of Emu stuff uses these large ranges).

2) You can't access other control values.
Some older synths have packed data. For instance the oscillator might have the waveform selection in the lower 4 bits (val03) and the octave only needs 2 bits.
So roll the 2 bits 4 places to the left and add the waveform value to make up the single byte to save memory.
The Korg Dw6000 does this.

3) You can't use a sysex value to set the value of a control.
So the BC can't be synced to the synth.
So if you change a patch on the synth, one, you can't see the new value in the LED rings and two, moving a control usually makes the value jump. Not too good for live filter sweeps.

With the Korg negative numbers are not a problem but byte packing and BCR syncing are.
So the PC program is a bridge between the BCR and the DW6k.
It converts CC messages from the BCR and outputs sysex parameters to the Korg.
It requests patch data and sends a full set of CC messages to the BCR to keep it in sync.
It all worked so well that it has given the old Korg a new lease of life. I even added a random patch generator.

If you are interested
www.bwalk.com.au

Let me know what you think.

All the best
Royce

Re: Integrating the BCR2000 with the Korg DW6000

2012-12-16 by tomcc59

Thanks for a great program. Tried it today after watching the video and it worked within 1 minute of turning on the BCR and me not knowing what I was doing.
This has taken the synth to a new level. I now have immediate control like my other knobby synths. I don't have to think what I am doing now. Just turn any knob for a random unknown effect. 
Thanks heaps Royce. 
--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Royce" <rpcfender@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> After previous discussion about the BCR controlling a Crumar Bit01 synth
> I decided that I would write a program that I have been thinking about
> for a while.
> 
> The BC2k gear can do most things, but there are three areas that it
> misses out on.
> 
> 1) You can't use negative numbers.
> Well this is partially solved for smaller ranges  (eg -7 to 7 is OK),
> but it is complicated and using 14 bit or greater is not possible (a lot
> of Emu stuff uses these large ranges).
> 
> 2) You can't access other control values.
> Some older synths have packed data. For instance the oscillator might
> have the waveform selection in the lower 4 bits (val03) and the octave
> only needs 2 bits.
> So roll the 2 bits 4 places to the left and add the waveform value to
> make up the single byte to save memory.
> The Korg Dw6000 does this.
> 
> 3) You can't use a sysex value to set the value of a control.
> So the BC can't be synced to the synth.
> So if you change a patch on the synth, one, you can't see the new value
> in the LED rings and two, moving a control usually makes the value jump.
> Not too good for live filter sweeps.
> 
> With the Korg negative numbers are not a problem but byte packing and
> BCR syncing are.
> So the PC program is a  bridge between the BCR and the DW6k.
> It converts CC messages from the BCR and outputs sysex parameters to the
> Korg.
> It requests patch data and sends a full set of CC messages to the BCR to
> keep it in sync.
> It all worked so well that it has given the old Korg a new lease of
> life. I even added a random patch generator.
> 
> If you are interested
> www.bwalk.com.au <http://www.bwalk.com.au>
> 
> Let me know what you think.
> 
> All the best
> Royce
>

Re: [bc2000] Re: Integrating the BCR2000 with the Korg DW6000

2012-12-16 by j k

Is it possible to tweak this for the DW-8000?

----- Original Message -----
From: "tomcc59" <tomcc@...>
To: bc2000@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 10:10:52 PM
Subject: [bc2000] Re: Integrating the BCR2000 with the Korg DW6000







Thanks for a great program. Tried it today after watching the video and it worked within 1 minute of turning on the BCR and me not knowing what I was doing. 
This has taken the synth to a new level. I now have immediate control like my other knobby synths. I don't have to think what I am doing now. Just turn any knob for a random unknown effect. 
Thanks heaps Royce. 
--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com , "Royce" <rpcfender@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> 
> After previous discussion about the BCR controlling a Crumar Bit01 synth 
> I decided that I would write a program that I have been thinking about 
> for a while. 
> 
> The BC2k gear can do most things, but there are three areas that it 
> misses out on. 
> 
> 1) You can't use negative numbers. 
> Well this is partially solved for smaller ranges (eg -7 to 7 is OK), 
> but it is complicated and using 14 bit or greater is not possible (a lot 
> of Emu stuff uses these large ranges). 
> 
> 2) You can't access other control values. 
> Some older synths have packed data. For instance the oscillator might 
> have the waveform selection in the lower 4 bits (val03) and the octave 
> only needs 2 bits. 
> So roll the 2 bits 4 places to the left and add the waveform value to 
> make up the single byte to save memory. 
> The Korg Dw6000 does this. 
> 
> 3) You can't use a sysex value to set the value of a control. 
> So the BC can't be synced to the synth. 
> So if you change a patch on the synth, one, you can't see the new value 
> in the LED rings and two, moving a control usually makes the value jump. 
> Not too good for live filter sweeps. 
> 
> With the Korg negative numbers are not a problem but byte packing and 
> BCR syncing are. 
> So the PC program is a bridge between the BCR and the DW6k. 
> It converts CC messages from the BCR and outputs sysex parameters to the 
> Korg. 
> It requests patch data and sends a full set of CC messages to the BCR to 
> keep it in sync. 
> It all worked so well that it has given the old Korg a new lease of 
> life. I even added a random patch generator. 
> 
> If you are interested 
> www.bwalk.com.au < http://www.bwalk.com.au > 
> 
> Let me know what you think. 
> 
> All the best 
> Royce 
>

Re: Integrating the BCR2000 with the Korg DW6000

2012-12-16 by Royce

It is, but I don't have one to test it on.

I have just taken out a Yamaha TQ5 from the cupboard and thought O might try that.
This should work for most of the 4 op FM synths.

All the best
Royce

--- In bc2000@...m, j k <djo3yk@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> Is it possible to tweak this for the DW-8000?
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tomcc59" <tomcc@...>
> To: bc2000@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 10:10:52 PM
> Subject: [bc2000] Re: Integrating the BCR2000 with the Korg DW6000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for a great program. Tried it today after watching the video and it worked within 1 minute of turning on the BCR and me not knowing what I was doing. 
> This has taken the synth to a new level. I now have immediate control like my other knobby synths. I don't have to think what I am doing now. Just turn any knob for a random unknown effect. 
> Thanks heaps Royce. 
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com , "Royce" <rpcfender@> wrote: 
> > 
> > After previous discussion about the BCR controlling a Crumar Bit01 synth 
> > I decided that I would write a program that I have been thinking about 
> > for a while. 
> > 
> > The BC2k gear can do most things, but there are three areas that it 
> > misses out on. 
> > 
> > 1) You can't use negative numbers. 
> > Well this is partially solved for smaller ranges (eg -7 to 7 is OK), 
> > but it is complicated and using 14 bit or greater is not possible (a lot 
> > of Emu stuff uses these large ranges). 
> > 
> > 2) You can't access other control values. 
> > Some older synths have packed data. For instance the oscillator might 
> > have the waveform selection in the lower 4 bits (val03) and the octave 
> > only needs 2 bits. 
> > So roll the 2 bits 4 places to the left and add the waveform value to 
> > make up the single byte to save memory. 
> > The Korg Dw6000 does this. 
> > 
> > 3) You can't use a sysex value to set the value of a control. 
> > So the BC can't be synced to the synth. 
> > So if you change a patch on the synth, one, you can't see the new value 
> > in the LED rings and two, moving a control usually makes the value jump. 
> > Not too good for live filter sweeps. 
> > 
> > With the Korg negative numbers are not a problem but byte packing and 
> > BCR syncing are. 
> > So the PC program is a bridge between the BCR and the DW6k. 
> > It converts CC messages from the BCR and outputs sysex parameters to the 
> > Korg. 
> > It requests patch data and sends a full set of CC messages to the BCR to 
> > keep it in sync. 
> > It all worked so well that it has given the old Korg a new lease of 
> > life. I even added a random patch generator. 
> > 
> > If you are interested 
> > www.bwalk.com.au < http://www.bwalk.com.au > 
> > 
> > Let me know what you think. 
> > 
> > All the best 
> > Royce 
> >
>

Re: Integrating the BCR2000 with the Korg DW6000

2012-12-18 by tomcc59

Hey Royce do you think the TQ5 would have similar SYs Exs to the SY22? I have one and if you could do the same as the DW6000 that would be BRILLIANT. 

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Royce"  wrote:
 
 It is, but I don't have one to test it on.
 
 I have just taken out a Yamaha TQ5 from the cupboard and thought O might try that.
 This should work for most of the 4 op FM synths.
 
 All the best
 Royce
 
 --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, j k  wrote:
 
  Is it possible to tweak this for the DW-8000?

Show quoted textHide quoted text

----- Original Message -----
From: "tomcc59"
To: bc2000@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 10:10:52 PM
Subject: [bc2000] Re: Integrating the BCR2000 with the Korg DW6000

Thanks for a great program. Tried it today after watching the video and it worked within 1 minute of turning on the BCR and me not knowing what I was doing.
This has taken the synth to a new level. I now have immediate control like my other knobby synths. I don't have to think what I am doing now. Just turn any knob for a random unknown effect.
Thanks heaps Royce.
--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com , "Royce" wrote:

After previous discussion about the BCR controlling a Crumar Bit01 synth
I decided that I would write a program that I have been thinking about
for a while.

The BC2k gear can do most things, but there are three areas that it
misses out on.

1) You can't use negative numbers.
Well this is partially solved for smaller ranges (eg -7 to 7 is OK),
but it is complicated and using 14 bit or greater is not possible (a lot
of Emu stuff uses these large ranges).

2) You can't access other control values.
Some older synths have packed data. For instance the oscillator might
have the waveform selection in the lower 4 bits (val03) and the octave
only needs 2 bits.
So roll the 2 bits 4 places to the left and add the waveform value to
make up the single byte to save memory.
The Korg Dw6000 does this.

3) You can't use a sysex value to set the value of a control.
So the BC can't be synced to the synth.
So if you change a patch on the synth, one, you can't see the new value
in the LED rings and two, moving a control usually makes the value jump.
Not too good for live filter sweeps.

With the Korg negative numbers are not a problem but byte packing and
BCR syncing are.
So the PC program is a bridge between the BCR and the DW6k.
It converts CC messages from the BCR and outputs sysex parameters to the
Korg.
It requests patch data and sends a full set of CC messages to the BCR to
keep it in sync.
It all worked so well that it has given the old Korg a new lease of
life. I even added a random patch generator.

If you are interested
www.bwalk.com.au

Let me know what you think.

All the best
Royce

Re: Integrating the BCR2000 with the Korg DW6000

2012-12-18 by Royce

Hi Tom

the DW BC project was originally just to show how closely coupled I thought you could make these units.

I spent a long time trying to sort out a way to make the program expandable to other synths through, let's say, scripting the CC to Sysex needed.
This would work, but a lot of old synths have a different bulk dump and so there is code needed for each synth to unpack this data. I believe the sync patch sync is an important idea. Perhaps I will look at requesting each parameter instead. 

The next problem is, what happens when there are more parameters than controls on the BC. Simple you multiplex them. This is what I am doing on the TQ5 program. 
I have a set of controls, the two bottom rows of encoders, that are used for an Operator (four of them in this case) and I use the 4 buttons on the bottom right to swap between them. 
Nothing on the BC changes. I just use the Op Selection buttons to select the new operator in the program and send the CC messages to the BC to show what the values are for this Operator. 
It's a bit like the group buttons on the BC.

So, at the moment, it looks like each synth will need its own program, although I can use the code from previous ones.

The problem is testing. 
This is why I am coding only for the units I own.

Although I would like SY99 or SY77 etc they are an extensive FM synth combined with a rompler synth (although the SY85 doesn't have the FM part). Fantastic, complicated and would go well with the BCR, but I would need to get to know the synth and then have it sitting here for testing.

Strangely one of the things that takes up a lot of time is deciding what goes where. I find that even during testing I will swap controls around adding an annoying amount of extra work.

The Morpho would also be great to do and from what I have read it might be a bit less complicated, but, sadly, I don't own one.

I am in Melbourne Australia.
Synth donations gratefully  received   8)

All the best
Royce


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "tomcc59"  wrote:
 
 Hey Royce do you think the TQ5 would have similar SYs Exs to the SY22? I have one and if you could do the same as the DW6000 that would be BRILLIANT. 
 
 --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Royce"  wrote:
  
  It is, but I don't have one to test it on.
  
  I have just taken out a Yamaha TQ5 from the cupboard and thought O might try that.
  This should work for most of the 4 op FM synths.
  
  All the best
  Royce
  
  --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, j k  wrote:
  
   Is it possible to tweak this for the DW-8000?

Show quoted textHide quoted text

----- Original Message -----
From: "tomcc59"
To: bc2000@...m
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 10:10:52 PM
Subject: [bc2000] Re: Integrating the BCR2000 with the Korg DW6000

Thanks for a great program. Tried it today after watching the video and it worked within 1 minute of turning on the BCR and me not knowing what I was doing.
This has taken the synth to a new level. I now have immediate control like my other knobby synths. I don't have to think what I am doing now. Just turn any knob for a random unknown effect.
Thanks heaps Royce.
--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com , "Royce" wrote:

After previous discussion about the BCR controlling a Crumar Bit01 synth
I decided that I would write a program that I have been thinking about
for a while.

The BC2k gear can do most things, but there are three areas that it
misses out on.

1) You can't use negative numbers.
Well this is partially solved for smaller ranges (eg -7 to 7 is OK),
but it is complicated and using 14 bit or greater is not possible (a lot
of Emu stuff uses these large ranges).

2) You can't access other control values.
Some older synths have packed data. For instance the oscillator might
have the waveform selection in the lower 4 bits (val03) and the octave
only needs 2 bits.
So roll the 2 bits 4 places to the left and add the waveform value to
make up the single byte to save memory.
The Korg Dw6000 does this.

3) You can't use a sysex value to set the value of a control.
So the BC can't be synced to the synth.
So if you change a patch on the synth, one, you can't see the new value
in the LED rings and two, moving a control usually makes the value jump.
Not too good for live filter sweeps.

With the Korg negative numbers are not a problem but byte packing and
BCR syncing are.
So the PC program is a bridge between the BCR and the DW6k.
It converts CC messages from the BCR and outputs sysex parameters to the
Korg.
It requests patch data and sends a full set of CC messages to the BCR to
keep it in sync.
It all worked so well that it has given the old Korg a new lease of
life. I even added a random patch generator.

If you are interested
www.bwalk.com.au

Let me know what you think.

All the best
Royce

Re: Integrating the BCR2000 with the Korg DW6000

2012-12-19 by Royce

It has just occurred to me that I have a TG33 tucked away in a cupboard.
The TG33 is a desktop version of the SY22.
So who knows, perhaps this is the next unit for treatment.

Royce


 --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "tomcc59"  wrote:
  
  Hey Royce do you think the TQ5 would have similar SYs Exs to the SY22? I have one and if you could do the same as the DW6000 that would be BRILLIANT. 
  
  --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Royce"  wrote:
   
   It is, but I don't have one to test it on.
   
   I have just taken out a Yamaha TQ5 from the cupboard and thought O might try that.
   This should work for most of the 4 op FM synths.
   
   All the best
   Royce
   
   --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, j k  wrote:
   
    Is it possible to tweak this for the DW-8000?