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Steiner filter ext resonance control

Steiner filter ext resonance control

2004-11-23 by Fernando

Hi all,

I wonder about an external resonance circuit by sending the output back to the BP input
via VCA.
Anyone tried this?

Fernando

Re: Steiner filter ext resonance control

2004-11-23 by Ryan Williams

I haven't tried it but I think it should work. the normal res pot
adjusts the gain of an amplifier and and that amp is run right back into
the BP input anyway.

I had a plan to build a modified version that had VC-Resonance. I just
won't have to time try it out till I finish some other things, but It's
basically the same idea as this. only I would replace that amplifier
used in the filter by a VCA where the VCA had a limited range of gain.
I also wanted to try and improve the CV biasing circuit but haven't
figured out a way that I like enough yet.

Yves Usson has a version using an opamp where it's easier to see how it
works. also there's a link to Nyle Steiner's article discussing the filter.
http://www-timc.imag.fr/Yves.Usson/personnel/SDIY/Modular/EN/STEINERVCF/

Fernando wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi all,
>
> I wonder about an external resonance circuit by sending the output back
> to the BP input
> via VCA.
> Anyone tried this?
>
> Fernando

Re: Steiner filter ext resonance control

2004-11-23 by cgs@oldmail.charlielamm.com

I have done this with a VCA and some resistors. It works OK, not great,
but OK, here is a wiring diagram

http://www.charlielamm.com/synth/steiner/cgs35wire.pdf

Main page is here:

http://www.charlielamm.com/synth/steiner/index.php

Info on the VCA is here:
http://www.charlielamm.com/synth/duallinearvca.php

With some tweaking I'll bet this could be made to work great. Let me know
if you come up with anything and I will post it on my site.

--CL
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Fernando wrote:

>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I wonder about an external resonance circuit by sending the output back to the BP input
> via VCA.
> Anyone tried this?
>
> Fernando
>
>
>
>
>
>
> See the following URLS for the CGS Modular Synth home page:
> Main: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
> Secondary: http://otherunicorn.0catch.com/synth/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: Steiner filter ext resonance control

2004-11-24 by Fernando

Thanks Ryan and Charlie for your help and info.

What I mean is to redirect the output to the BP input externally, using other modules
(VCA), without applying any mod to Ken's standard Steiner PCB.

The experiment should be done having the Resonance control to minimum and controlling
an external VCA. The signal may have to be attenuated or amplified before or after the
VCA and may be the sign changed...

Anyone tried this or like to try? =:)

Thanks again,

Fernando

Re: Steiner filter ext resonance control

2004-11-24 by ALMAGATA@telefonica.net

Hola Fernando!

Yes You can do VC resonance this way. Just remember to invert the
signal, using an inverting VCA (-input) or using a spare inverter. This
is the way for VC Res from the 70`s....

Best Regards,

Josue.

----- Mensaje Original -----
De: "Fernando" <fdi@...>
Fecha: Miercoles, Noviembre 24, 2004 2:10 am
Asunto: [cgs_synth] Re: Steiner filter ext resonance control
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
>
>
> Thanks Ryan and Charlie for your help and info.
>
>
>
> What I mean is to redirect the output to the BP input externally,
> using other modules
>
> (VCA), without applying any mod to Ken's standard Steiner PCB.
>
>
>
> The experiment should be done having the Resonance control to
> minimum and controlling
>
> an external VCA. The signal may have to be attenuated or amplified
> before or after the
>
> VCA and may be the sign changed...
>
>
>
> Anyone tried this or like to try? =:)
>
>
>
> Thanks again,
>
>
>
> Fernando
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
> <tt>
> See the following URLS for the CGS Modular Synth home page:
>
> Main: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
>
> Secondary: http://otherunicorn.0catch.com/synth/</tt>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Steiner filter ext resonance control

2004-11-24 by Fernando

Thanks Josue, I imagine it could be possible externally. I was looking at the
schematic when I frst posted the question. Just wanted some "real life" report about how it
worked. I does not seem so evident as with other filter designs...

Charlie, your mod looks cool and minimal, thank you. May be one could implement just a
switch and two sockets to your resistors to switch between "normal" and external
(ext. VCA) resonance control...
That would be a minimum modification / maximum satisfaction =:)
Anyhow, am I wrong or the pot legs are swaped in your drawing? One should send the
wiper to the VCA as I understand from CGS35 schematic...

Fernando
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Yes You can do VC resonance this way. Just remember to invert the
> signal, using an inverting VCA (-input) or using a spare inverter. This
> is the way for VC Res from the 70`s....

Re: Steiner filter ext resonance control

2004-11-25 by cgs@oldmail.charlielamm.com

Fernando: I dunno, I just had an extra VCA so I wired this up in about 5
minutes. It was that or have the VCA just sit there doing nothing so I
wired it! If I ever pull the module out again I will look to see if I
drew this different than how I wired it up, I don't think I did but I
am not certain.

I think you could use a switch instead of the pot mod I show....I also was
thinking you could replace the pot entirely with a VCA probably, and then
use a continous VC feed to the VCA to set the "baseline" feedback you
want, with CV mod further adjusting things. If you go down that route,
you may want to experiment with some sort of resistance (250 ohm? Don't
know) in parallel with the VCA. Probably depends on the exact VCA you
use. Not sure about this, but, that's where I'd start anyway, for what
that's worth. Have fun!
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Fernando wrote:

>
>
>
> Thanks Josue, I imagine it could be possible externally. I was looking at the
> schematic when I frst posted the question. Just wanted some "real life" report about how it
> worked. I does not seem so evident as with other filter designs...
>
> Charlie, your mod looks cool and minimal, thank you. May be one could implement just a
> switch and two sockets to your resistors to switch between "normal" and external
> (ext. VCA) resonance control...
> That would be a minimum modification / maximum satisfaction =:)
> Anyhow, am I wrong or the pot legs are swaped in your drawing? One should send the
> wiper to the VCA as I understand from CGS35 schematic...
>
> Fernando
>
> > Yes You can do VC resonance this way. Just remember to invert the
> > signal, using an inverting VCA (-input) or using a spare inverter. This
> > is the way for VC Res from the 70`s....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> See the following URLS for the CGS Modular Synth home page:
> Main: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
> Secondary: http://otherunicorn.0catch.com/synth/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: Steiner filter ext resonance control

2004-11-26 by Andy Wilson

Hi Fernando,

> What I mean is to redirect the output to the BP input externally,
> using other modules
> (VCA), without applying any mod to Ken's standard Steiner PCB.
>
> The experiment should be done having the Resonance control to
minimum
> and controlling
> an external VCA. The signal may have to be attenuated or amplified
> before or after the
> VCA and may be the sign changed...
>
> Anyone tried this or like to try? =:)

I tried this last night, taking the Steiner O/P through an Oakley VCA
and back into the BP input. Works reasonably well like this (Didn't
need to invert the I/P to the VCA BTW).

Regards

Andy
---

Andy Wilson
http://www.techman.synth.net
andy@...

Re: Steiner filter ext resonance control

2004-11-26 by Fernando

Great, thank you very much!

>reasonably well
May be some gain needs to be applied. Sometimes is about 4x...



> > Anyone tried this or like to try? =:)
>
> I tried this last night, taking the Steiner O/P through an Oakley VCA
> and back into the BP input. Works reasonably well like this (Didn't
> need to invert the I/P to the VCA BTW).
>
> Regards
>
> Andy

Re: Steiner filter ext resonance control

2004-11-26 by sasami@hotkey.net.au

Of note- the first run of Steiner PCBs gave an inverted output, so there may
be 10 to 20 CGS Steiners that already have inverted outputs.

Ken
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Hi Fernando,
>
>> What I mean is to redirect the output to the BP input externally,
>> using other modules
>> (VCA), without applying any mod to Ken's standard Steiner PCB.
>>
>> The experiment should be done having the Resonance control to
>minimum
>> and controlling
>> an external VCA. The signal may have to be attenuated or amplified
>> before or after the
>> VCA and may be the sign changed...
>>
>> Anyone tried this or like to try? =:)
>
>I tried this last night, taking the Steiner O/P through an Oakley VCA
>and back into the BP input. Works reasonably well like this (Didn't
>need to invert the I/P to the VCA BTW).
>
>Regards
>
>Andy
>---
>
>Andy Wilson
>http://www.techman.synth.net
>andy@...
>
>
>
>
>See the following URLS for the CGS Modular Synth home page:
>Main: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
>Secondary: http://otherunicorn.0catch.com/synth/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone sasami@... or sasami@...
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>

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