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2 Decoupling Caps in CGS52 Wave Folder

2 Decoupling Caps in CGS52 Wave Folder

2007-04-24 by Future Image

Hi,

I've made my own PCB for the CGS52 simple wave folder from the
schematic since I got bored at school one lunch. Made it this lunch
and found on the parts list and in the instructions that there are 2
10n decoupling capacitors. The instructions state that there is a
space on the CGS PCB (as in not my own DIY one) for these caps on the
copper side.

Are they needed?

If so, where should I connect them in the circuit?

Thanks,
Finlay Shakespeare

Re: 2 Decoupling Caps in CGS52 Wave Folder

2007-04-24 by sasami@hotkey.net.au

Put them from +VE to 0V and from 0V to -VE.

Ken
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>I've made my own PCB for the CGS52 simple wave folder from the
>schematic since I got bored at school one lunch. Made it this lunch
>and found on the parts list and in the instructions that there are 2
>10n decoupling capacitors. The instructions state that there is a
>space on the CGS PCB (as in not my own DIY one) for these caps on the
>copper side.
>
>Are they needed?
>
>If so, where should I connect them in the circuit?
>
>Thanks,
>Finlay Shakespeare
>
>
>
>The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone sasami@...
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.cgs.synth.net/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>

Re: 2 Decoupling Caps in CGS52 Wave Folder

2007-04-25 by Future Image

Do they have to be polarised or can I just use ceramic discs?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, sasami@... wrote:
>
> Put them from +VE to 0V and from 0V to -VE.
>
> Ken
>
> >I've made my own PCB for the CGS52 simple wave folder from the
> >schematic since I got bored at school one lunch. Made it this lunch
> >and found on the parts list and in the instructions that there are 2
> >10n decoupling capacitors. The instructions state that there is a
> >space on the CGS PCB (as in not my own DIY one) for these caps on the
> >copper side.
> >
> >Are they needed?
> >
> >If so, where should I connect them in the circuit?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Finlay Shakespeare
> >
> >
> >
> >The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Ken Stone sasami@...
> Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.cgs.synth.net/>
> Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>
>

Re: 2 Decoupling Caps in CGS52 Wave Folder

2007-04-25 by Andre Majorel

On 2007-04-25 06:19 -0000, Future Image wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Do they have to be polarised or can I just use ceramic discs?

First you would have to *find* 10 nF low voltage polar capacitors !

Ceramic discs are fine for decoupling.

--
André Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
Do not use this account for regular correspondence.
See the URL above for contact information.

Re: 2 Decoupling Caps in CGS52 Wave Folder

2007-04-25 by sasami@hotkey.net.au

>Do they have to be polarised or can I just use ceramic discs?

Ceramic discs, monolythics, greencaps - whatever.

Ken

>
>--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, sasami@... wrote:
>>
>> Put them from +VE to 0V and from 0V to -VE.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> >I've made my own PCB for the CGS52 simple wave folder from the
>> >schematic since I got bored at school one lunch. Made it this lunch
>> >and found on the parts list and in the instructions that there are 2
>> >10n decoupling capacitors. The instructions state that there is a
>> >space on the CGS PCB (as in not my own DIY one) for these caps on the
>> >copper side.
>> >
>> >Are they needed?
>> >
>> >If so, where should I connect them in the circuit?
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >Finlay Shakespeare
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
>> >
>> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Ken Stone sasami@...
>> Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.cgs.synth.net/>
>> Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>
>>
>
>
>
>
>The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone sasami@...
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.cgs.synth.net/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>

Re: 2 Decoupling Caps in CGS52 Wave Folder

2007-04-25 by Jorrit Tyberghein

> Ceramic discs are fine for decoupling.

Hi,

In general, which capacitor types are best for decoupling? Or doesn't
it matter that much?

Greetings,

Re: 2 Decoupling Caps in CGS52 Wave Folder

2007-04-25 by Mark

On 4/25/07, Jorrit Tyberghein put forth:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > Ceramic discs are fine for decoupling.
>
>Hi,
>
>In general, which capacitor types are best for decoupling? Or doesn't
>it matter that much?

Well, I'm going to assume that you asking about decoupling
high-impedance IC's such as op-amps. Decoupling caps for tube
cathodes requires much larger values.

The short answer is that it doesn't matter that much. Decoupling
caps should be physically small, inexpensive, and bipolar. Their
precise value doesn't matter much, so temperature stability isn't an
issue.

Decoupling capacitors perform two functions.

Firstly, the word "decouple" means to isolate or separate. As such,
they act as filters to keep noise out of the circuit.

Secondly, since PCB traces have some resistance, and are therefore
subject to Ohm's Law, a sudden demand for current will result in a
drop in voltage at that point. So decoupling caps also act as little
power reservoirs.

Ceramic monolithic capacitors are the best choice for decoupling.
While they are available from a few picofarads up to as much a
microfarad, generally, you want 100nF. In the United States, this is
often written as ".1uF". While that might be bad math, such notation has
the connotation of referring to a ceramic bypass cap. The caps
themselves are often labeled "104". If you are using a particularly
noisy chip, such as a timer or logic IC that can cause switching
noise as it changes states, you might want a larger value. Although,
with linear devices, such as op-amps, you are usually trying to keep
the noise out of the chip, not the other way around. If you are
using a particularly prissy op-amp, or a fast op-amp to drive a large
load, or if the rails are particularly long or noisy, you might want
to use two bypass caps, with one a hundred times larger than the
other, in parallel. In this case, the larger cap would be an electrolytic.

Ceramic caps are rated by their temperature coefficient. COG or NP0
capacitors are the most temperature stable, but are also the largest
monolithic ceramic caps. X7R capacitors have a greater temperature
coefficient, but are a bit smaller in size. Z5U capacitors have the
worst temperature stability, but are the smallest in size. That's
what I use for power supply bypassing.

The most important aspect of ceramic caps is that they have a low
series inductance. This is also why physical size is so important --
the smaller the cap, the smaller the leads and traces connecting it.
The inductance of a capacitor raises its impedance, thereby limiting
the frequencies it can filter. This is why bypass caps are placed as
close as possible to the power terminals. This limits the series
inductance, so it can filter high-frequency noise.


To understand different capacitor values, here's a cute web page with pictures:

http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/components/capac.htm


This page isn't as cute, but lists all the dielectric codes:

http://xtronics.com/kits/ccode.htm

Re: 2 Decoupling Caps in CGS52 Wave Folder

2007-04-26 by Richard Brewster

Very informative, Mark. Thanks. I use Mouser #581-SA105E104MAR for
bypass. Multilayer Ceramic (MLC) Axial Capacitor SA10 0.1uF 50volts Z5U 20%

http://www.mouser.com/search/refine.aspx?Ntt=581-SA105E104MAR

$7.00 USD per 100

-Richard Brewster
http://www.pugix.com

Mark wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On 4/25/07, Jorrit Tyberghein put forth:
>
>> > Ceramic discs are fine for decoupling.
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> In general, which capacitor types are best for decoupling? Or doesn't
>> it matter that much?
>>
>
> Well, I'm going to assume that you asking about decoupling
> high-impedance IC's such as op-amps. Decoupling caps for tube
> cathodes requires much larger values.
>
> The short answer is that it doesn't matter that much. Decoupling
> caps should be physically small, inexpensive, and bipolar. Their
> precise value doesn't matter much, so temperature stability isn't an
> issue.
>
> Decoupling capacitors perform two functions.
>
> Firstly, the word "decouple" means to isolate or separate. As such,
> they act as filters to keep noise out of the circuit.
>
> Secondly, since PCB traces have some resistance, and are therefore
> subject to Ohm's Law, a sudden demand for current will result in a
> drop in voltage at that point. So decoupling caps also act as little
> power reservoirs.
>
> Ceramic monolithic capacitors are the best choice for decoupling.
> While they are available from a few picofarads up to as much a
> microfarad, generally, you want 100nF. In the United States, this is
> often written as ".1uF". While that might be bad math, such notation has
> the connotation of referring to a ceramic bypass cap. The caps
> themselves are often labeled "104". If you are using a particularly
> noisy chip, such as a timer or logic IC that can cause switching
> noise as it changes states, you might want a larger value. Although,
> with linear devices, such as op-amps, you are usually trying to keep
> the noise out of the chip, not the other way around. If you are
> using a particularly prissy op-amp, or a fast op-amp to drive a large
> load, or if the rails are particularly long or noisy, you might want
> to use two bypass caps, with one a hundred times larger than the
> other, in parallel. In this case, the larger cap would be an electrolytic.
>
> Ceramic caps are rated by their temperature coefficient. COG or NP0
> capacitors are the most temperature stable, but are also the largest
> monolithic ceramic caps. X7R capacitors have a greater temperature
> coefficient, but are a bit smaller in size. Z5U capacitors have the
> worst temperature stability, but are the smallest in size. That's
> what I use for power supply bypassing.
>
> The most important aspect of ceramic caps is that they have a low
> series inductance. This is also why physical size is so important --
> the smaller the cap, the smaller the leads and traces connecting it.
> The inductance of a capacitor raises its impedance, thereby limiting
> the frequencies it can filter. This is why bypass caps are placed as
> close as possible to the power terminals. This limits the series
> inductance, so it can filter high-frequency noise.
>
>
> To understand different capacitor values, here's a cute web page with pictures:
>
> http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/components/capac.htm
>
>
> This page isn't as cute, but lists all the dielectric codes:
>
> http://xtronics.com/kits/ccode.htm
>
>

Re: 2 Decoupling Caps in CGS52 Wave Folder

2007-04-26 by Mark

No problem :) I haven't bought bypass caps in years, as I still have
a couple dozen left. So I would have to look to see if if use the
exact same ones. I bought whatever were the least expensive axial ceramic Z5U
.1uF caps from Digikey.

In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have said that "Ceramic
monolithic capacitors are the best choice for decoupling."
Monolithic means "single stone". Multilayer ceramic caps, which are
made by paralleling several monolithic caps in a single package, are
perfectly fine for decoupling.

Also, like all caps, they need to have a high enough voltage rating.

On 4/25/07, Richard Brewster put forth:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Very informative, Mark. Thanks. I use Mouser #581-SA105E104MAR for
>bypass. Multilayer Ceramic (MLC) Axial Capacitor SA10 0.1uF 50volts Z5U 20%
>
>http://www.mouser.com/search/refine.aspx?Ntt=581-SA105E104MAR
>
>$7.00 USD per 100
>
>-Richard Brewster
>http://www.pugix.com

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