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subosc/harmonic sequencer (iffy response)

subosc/harmonic sequencer (iffy response)

2011-05-25 by drryle

I have built a version of the module with revision 2 (8 knobs - 3 switches).

If I understand the module right, is the following description how it should work?



IN BYPASS MODE:

-Channel "A" & "B" are duplicate suboscillators.

-Each channel should output audio through either of the OUTPUTs (normal or inverted).

-Turning up "A/2" will output a sub division one octave down. Turning up "A/4" is four octaves down etc. Volume level blending is with the knobs.



IN PRE-SCALE MODE:

-The divisions switch selects partials for ring modulated outputs. (generally speaking)

-This only works in the MULTIPLIER MODE. (?)


The reason for my query is I suspect there is something wrong with my build.

I get sound out of both outputs through the A channel but not through the B channel. The B channel does affect the sound of the audio signal but only in a strange manner.

The A/2 knob doesn't bring up any audio sound even with high frequency pitches into the channel A. I have to turn up all division knobs before the A/8 or A/16 start out-putting audio. They are definitely suboscillator in nature but there is very little audible divisions happening with A/2 or A/4 knobs. I seemed to hear it very faintly with only A/2 up yet very clearly when all pots including A/8 & A/16 are up.

A similar effect happens with the B channel knobs. I must turn up the lower division knobs (B/2 & B/4) in order for the larger division knobs to have any effect. They do divide the A channel audio further and I was able to get some fun trigger patterns to my envelope generators last night. (Bonus bacon)

All that happens when in BYPASS mode. I'm not hearing any prescale values modifying anything at this point, so I'm not happening with the ring modulation at all yet (I think).

This doesn't seem right and I suspect an IC or something isn't right. I did have a pad lift on one of the 10uF coupling caps but I got that fixed. I didn't detect it until I'd already powered the module once. Is there a possibility I've damaged a chip with improper Vbe inputs?

Some places to check would be handy. I'm rather ignorant of some of these logic chips. I can put together a video tonight to demonstrate the malfunctioning module if that will help.


Here is how I wired up the multi-function 4P switch and "B" knobs.

The resistor bank (47k) out to the middle lug of the pots B/2 - B/16. The right (from the back of the pot) lug goes to the four pole switch middle posts. The switch outer posts are sent to the channel B divisons of the 4024 and to the multiplier inputs (M1-M4) of the 4030. I tried to pay attention to which division knob tied to which place on the PCB. (e.g. A/2 through the switch to "0" on channel B & M1. A/4 through the switch to "1" on channel B & M2, etc.)

If this is wrong I wouldn't be surprised. (you would have to know me)
A new wiring diagram for the revision 2 setup might help old farm boys like me. This was a head-scratcher.

Thanks,

-David

Re: subosc/harmonic sequencer (iffy response)

2011-05-25 by sasami@hotkey.net.au

>IN BYPASS MODE:
>
>-Channel "A" & "B" are duplicate suboscillators.

Yes.

>-Each channel should output audio through either of the OUTPUTs (normal or
inverted).

To both at all times.

>-Turning up "A/2" will output a sub division one octave down. Turning up
"A/4" is four octaves down etc. Volume level blending is with the knobs.

a/4 = 2 octaves down. a/8 = 3 octaves down.
Dividing by 2 (/2) drops a single octave. So dividing by 4 (/4) only drops
two octaves.

>IN PRE-SCALE MODE:
>
>-The divisions switch selects partials for ring modulated outputs.
(generally speaking)
>
>-This only works in the MULTIPLIER MODE. (?)

Prescale will work in both divide and multiply modes.


>I get sound out of both outputs through the A channel but not through the B
channel. The B channel does affect the sound of the audio signal but only in
a strange manner.

Something is certainly wrong. In divide mode, B should behave exactly like A

Have you earthed the CCW tabs of your pots? Yo don't mention this in your
4pole switch wiring (which otherwise looks correct).

>The A/2 knob doesn't bring up any audio sound even with high frequency
pitches into the channel A. I have to turn up all division knobs before the
A/8 or A/16 start out-putting audio. They are definitely suboscillator in
nature but there is very little audible divisions happening with A/2 or A/4
knobs. I seemed to hear it very faintly with only A/2 up yet very clearly
when all pots including A/8 & A/16 are up.

Did you install a level pot or the 22k resistor marked with "*"?

>A similar effect happens with the B channel knobs. I must turn up the lower
division knobs (B/2 & B/4) in order for the larger division knobs to have
any effect. They do divide the A channel audio further and I was able to get
some fun trigger patterns to my envelope generators last night. (Bonus bacon)

Again, not right. Again, check as above.

>All that happens when in BYPASS mode. I'm not hearing any prescale values
modifying anything at this point, so I'm not happening with the ring
modulation at all yet (I think).
>
>This doesn't seem right and I suspect an IC or something isn't right. I did
have a pad lift on one of the 10uF coupling caps but I got that fixed. I
didn't detect it until I'd already powered the module once. Is there a
possibility I've damaged a chip with improper Vbe inputs?

Have you used LM358 or TL072 at the inputs? If LM358, try TL072.


Cheers,
Ken

>Some places to check would be handy. I'm rather ignorant of some of these
logic chips. I can put together a video tonight to demonstrate the
malfunctioning module if that will help.
>
>
>Here is how I wired up the multi-function 4P switch and "B" knobs.
>
>The resistor bank (47k) out to the middle lug of the pots B/2 - B/16. The
right (from the back of the pot) lug goes to the four pole switch middle
posts. The switch outer posts are sent to the channel B divisons of the 4024
and to the multiplier inputs (M1-M4) of the 4030. I tried to pay attention
to which division knob tied to which place on the PCB. (e.g. A/2 through the
switch to "0" on channel B & M1. A/4 through the switch to "1" on channel B
& M2, etc.)
>
>If this is wrong I wouldn't be surprised. (you would have to know me)
>A new wiring diagram for the revision 2 setup might help old farm boys like
me. This was a head-scratcher.
>
>Thanks,
>
>-David
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone sasami@... otherunicorn@...
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.cgs.synth.net/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>

Re: subosc/harmonic sequencer (iffy response)

2011-05-27 by drryle

Yeah, I had the ground on the A Channel pots flakey. Everything works great now.

I must say this is one module that exceeds my expectations tremendously. I can't get over how lovely the Harmonic Sequencer aspect is. I'm finishing a video of a live rendering. It demonstrates the extreme musical aspect of the module design pretty well. Unfortunately the front panel was a bust but I'm making another. When I get this video uploaded, I'll link to it here.

Thanks Ken

-David Ryle

CGS35 Filter Questions....

2011-05-30 by James Elliott

I'm sure these are dumb questions but I'll ask anyway.

1) What are the purpose of the diodes in this filter? That said, I have two REV
1 boards that I am finally getting around to finishing, and I was just wondering
why the extra 2 diodes were added in the new revision. After looking at the
schematics for both revisions it seems easy enough to add the two extra diodes
on my older boards but I don't know what I would be getting out of it.

2) What exactly does the trimmer do on the newest revision? Again, it seems easy
enough to incorporate it into my build, but I would like to know what I'd be
getting out of it.

Thanks,
Jim





________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: James Elliott <johans121@...>
To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 11:26:23 PM
Subject: Re: [cgs_synth] Re: subosc/harmonic sequencer (iffy response)


Excellent demo!!

________________________________
From: drryle <dryle@...>
To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 1:37:38 PM
Subject: [cgs_synth] Re: subosc/harmonic sequencer (iffy response)

Here is the CGS1 in MU panelling. This module is magical!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le2_k5FWNww&feature=channel_video_title

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: CGS35 Filter Questions....

2011-07-29 by Mongo

Hi James,

I may be mistaken, but I think the diodes are being used as voltage controlled resistors. They and the associated capacitors form a series of RC pairs that form the poles of the filter.

This technique started out using transistors in the venerable Moog filter, but Dr Bob patented the heck out of that. After Arp got sued for using it, they and other folks (EMS for instance) started using diodes instead.

Here is an amazingly detailed analysis of the whole subject - just get some popcorn and some advil and have a look:
http://www.timstinchcombe.co.uk/synth/Moog_ladder_tf.pdf

Best Wishes
Gary
Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, James Elliott <johans121@...> wrote:
>
> I'm sure these are dumb questions but I'll ask anyway.
>
> 1) What are the purpose of the diodes in this filter? That said, I have two REV
> 1 boards that I am finally getting around to finishing, and I was just wondering
> why the extra 2 diodes were added in the new revision. After looking at the
> schematics for both revisions it seems easy enough to add the two extra diodes
> on my older boards but I don't know what I would be getting out of it.
>
> 2) What exactly does the trimmer do on the newest revision? Again, it seems easy
> enough to incorporate it into my build, but I would like to know what I'd be
> getting out of it.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: James Elliott <johans121@...>
> To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 11:26:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [cgs_synth] Re: subosc/harmonic sequencer (iffy response)
>
>
> Excellent demo!!
>
> ________________________________
> From: drryle <dryle@...>
> To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 1:37:38 PM
> Subject: [cgs_synth] Re: subosc/harmonic sequencer (iffy response)
>
> Here is the CGS1 in MU panelling. This module is magical!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le2_k5FWNww&feature=channel_video_title
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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