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CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

2011-11-30 by ch1nard

I've been building a SWAMP pannel and i've pretty much got most of the CGS59 functions working with a couple of exceptions that i just cant seem to figure out.

First is pretty easy to explain, pushbuttons dont seem to work.
I've gone over all the buss connections plus double checked all the diode orientation.
The pulse inputs are all working fine, so i have a feeling i am missing something really obvious and stupid.

The other problem is a bit of a weird one, but i'm sure is easy to solve.
So applying pulse UP works great. Able to step through all 8 stages and wrap around again.
Applying pulse DOWN stops on stage 3 and will go no further.
I've gone through and triple checked all the buss connections as well as the G/H/J wiring. It does work in one direction so i am thinking the problem might be somewhere in or near the pulse generators on the A boards.

oh btw.. these are the earlier revision boards (non-rohs) the one where you have to reverse the orientation of the BC547 on the A boards and install that 1M+1N4148 in chain.

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

2011-11-30 by cg_synth

First, check your "B" line is at 7.5 volts. If it isn't, that is why your buttons don't work. The B line puts the voltage on one side of the switches. Also check each push button connects to the cathode of its two diodes.

As for the step 3 failure, the problem will be one board 3 (Check around the PNP transistor pair, and connections F and J) or board 2 (trace from "H" to make sure it actually connects to the rest of the circuit on board 2 - no broken traces or whatever).
Ken

Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, "ch1nard" <steve.benesko@...> wrote:
>
> I've been building a SWAMP pannel and i've pretty much got most of the CGS59 functions working with a couple of exceptions that i just cant seem to figure out.
>
> First is pretty easy to explain, pushbuttons dont seem to work.
> I've gone over all the buss connections plus double checked all the diode orientation.
> The pulse inputs are all working fine, so i have a feeling i am missing something really obvious and stupid.
>
> The other problem is a bit of a weird one, but i'm sure is easy to solve.
> So applying pulse UP works great. Able to step through all 8 stages and wrap around again.
> Applying pulse DOWN stops on stage 3 and will go no further.
> I've gone through and triple checked all the buss connections as well as the G/H/J wiring. It does work in one direction so i am thinking the problem might be somewhere in or near the pulse generators on the A boards.
>
> oh btw.. these are the earlier revision boards (non-rohs) the one where you have to reverse the orientation of the BC547 on the A boards and install that 1M+1N4148 in chain.
>

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

2012-01-15 by ch1nard

sorry for the delay in trying this out

I just went back and replaced all the transistors on both 2 and 3 stages and stepping now works in both directions. probably a bad one in there somewhere.

The buttons are still no go, checked the B line, and it WAS way below 7.5v due to the fact that i was trying to run it at 12v.
I reconfigured my power supply to run at 15v and B line now runs at 7.55v but still no dice with the buttons.
diodes all oriented correctly, no problems there.

Interesting observation here when i push the button, the B rail drops to 6.7v. not sure if that is expected behavior or not.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, "cg_synth" <sasami@...> wrote:
>
> First, check your "B" line is at 7.5 volts. If it isn't, that is why your buttons don't work. The B line puts the voltage on one side of the switches. Also check each push button connects to the cathode of its two diodes.
>
> As for the step 3 failure, the problem will be one board 3 (Check around the PNP transistor pair, and connections F and J) or board 2 (trace from "H" to make sure it actually connects to the rest of the circuit on board 2 - no broken traces or whatever).
> Ken
>
> --- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, "ch1nard" <steve.benesko@> wrote:
> >
> > I've been building a SWAMP pannel and i've pretty much got most of the CGS59 functions working with a couple of exceptions that i just cant seem to figure out.
> >
> > First is pretty easy to explain, pushbuttons dont seem to work.
> > I've gone over all the buss connections plus double checked all the diode orientation.
> > The pulse inputs are all working fine, so i have a feeling i am missing something really obvious and stupid.
> >
> > The other problem is a bit of a weird one, but i'm sure is easy to solve.
> > So applying pulse UP works great. Able to step through all 8 stages and wrap around again.
> > Applying pulse DOWN stops on stage 3 and will go no further.
> > I've gone through and triple checked all the buss connections as well as the G/H/J wiring. It does work in one direction so i am thinking the problem might be somewhere in or near the pulse generators on the A boards.
> >
> > oh btw.. these are the earlier revision boards (non-rohs) the one where you have to reverse the orientation of the BC547 on the A boards and install that 1M+1N4148 in chain.
> >
>

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

2012-01-15 by sasami@hotkey.net.au

>The buttons are still no go, checked the B line, and it WAS way below 7.5v

due to the fact that i was trying to run it at 12v.

>I reconfigured my power supply to run at 15v and B line now runs at 7.55v

but still no dice with the buttons.

>diodes all oriented correctly, no problems there.

>Interesting observation here when i push the button, the B rail drops to

6.7v. not sure if that is expected behavior or not.

Pushing the button adds a load, so I would expect a voltage drop. It SHOULD
run from 12 volts with the B line at 6V too.

Check the CPO circuit. That is the only other thing that is common to all
the push buttons. Make sure the capacitor there really is 10n and not 100n
or something like that. Maybe even try it without that capacitor.

Ken

>--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, "cg_synth" <sasami@...> wrote:
>>
>> First, check your "B" line is at 7.5 volts. If it isn't, that is why your

buttons don't work. The B line puts the voltage on one side of the switches.
Also check each push button connects to the cathode of its two diodes.

>>
>> As for the step 3 failure, the problem will be one board 3 (Check around

the PNP transistor pair, and connections F and J) or board 2 (trace from "H"
to make sure it actually connects to the rest of the circuit on board 2 - no
broken traces or whatever).

>> Ken
>>
>> --- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, "ch1nard" <steve.benesko@> wrote:
>> >
>> > I've been building a SWAMP pannel and i've pretty much got most of the

CGS59 functions working with a couple of exceptions that i just cant seem to
figure out.

>> >
>> > First is pretty easy to explain, pushbuttons dont seem to work.
>> > I've gone over all the buss connections plus double checked all the

diode orientation.

>> > The pulse inputs are all working fine, so i have a feeling i am missing

something really obvious and stupid.

>> >
>> > The other problem is a bit of a weird one, but i'm sure is easy to solve.
>> > So applying pulse UP works great. Able to step through all 8 stages

and wrap around again.

>> > Applying pulse DOWN stops on stage 3 and will go no further.
>> > I've gone through and triple checked all the buss connections as well

as the G/H/J wiring. It does work in one direction so i am thinking the
problem might be somewhere in or near the pulse generators on the A boards.

>> >
>> > oh btw.. these are the earlier revision boards (non-rohs) the one

where you have to reverse the orientation of the BC547 on the A boards and
install that 1M+1N4148 in chain.

>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone sasami@... otherunicorn@...
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.cgs.synth.net/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

2012-01-15 by ch1nard

--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, sasami@... wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> Check the CPO circuit. That is the only other thing that is common to all
> the push buttons. Make sure the capacitor there really is 10n and not 100n
> or something like that. Maybe even try it without that capacitor.
>
> Ken
>

okay, i checked all the cap values and they are all good.
Also tried removing the 10n between the two diodes in the CPO circuit (assuming that is what you meant)
still no go with the buttons.

I also tested the voltage levels on line A while it was still connected to main board and the voltage does go high on that line when button is pushed.
As an additional test i disconnected line A from the main board to try to rule out the CPO and the buttons still have no effect.

As i mentioned earlier in the thread this is the old style boards (non RoHS), Just wondering at this point if there is a component value that might be incorrect on all 8 stage boards.

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

2012-01-16 by ch1nard

> As i mentioned earlier in the thread this is the old style boards (non RoHS), Just wondering at this point if there is a component value that might be incorrect on all 8 stage boards.
>

okay, had an even closer look and i noticed that H was only going up to 6.7v when pressing the button so i figured this might have something to do with resistor values.
I went back over the boards and i noticed a discrepency between the silkscreen rev A and the picture of the rev b boards on the CGS site.
The row of resistors closest to the LED and diode on my board are (in order of closest to farthest (47k,47k,470k,820r,680r) and the CGS site with the revB boards (47k,150k,470k,820r,680r)

Now to further complicate things i was following the values listed on the website, BUT i got the 47k and 150k REVERSED which probably explains the voltage drop.
My question here is, Which should i follow for these REV A (non RoHS) boards. 47k, 47k, or 47k, 150k?

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

2012-01-16 by sasami@hotkey.net.au

47k, 150k, 470k, 820R 680R

Cheers,
Ken

Ken

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>> As i mentioned earlier in the thread this is the old style boards (non

RoHS), Just wondering at this point if there is a component value that might
be incorrect on all 8 stage boards.

>>
>
>okay, had an even closer look and i noticed that H was only going up to

6.7v when pressing the button so i figured this might have something to do
with resistor values.

>I went back over the boards and i noticed a discrepency between the

silkscreen rev A and the picture of the rev b boards on the CGS site.

>The row of resistors closest to the LED and diode on my board are (in order

of closest to farthest (47k,47k,470k,820r,680r) and the CGS site with the
revB boards (47k,150k,470k,820r,680r)

>
>Now to further complicate things i was following the values listed on the

website, BUT i got the 47k and 150k REVERSED which probably explains the
voltage drop.

>My question here is, Which should i follow for these REV A (non RoHS)

boards. 47k, 47k, or 47k, 150k?

>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

2012-01-29 by ch1nard

It was a big pain to swap these out after everything was mounted and wired but i did it and now all the buttony-buttons work.

Now to try to figure out why CPO and AEP doesnt work.
I'll focus on CPO for now since i'm not really sure what AEP is supposed to do. (i'll do some reading on this later once i have CPO working)
I have gone through the schematic and traced all part values and everything appears to be correct, but its also possible that ive missed something.
When a button is pushed the A bus goes high to 6.20v and the stage selects correctly.
When i measure the output of CPO it goes from 111mv to 201mv when the button is pushed which is obviously not high enough to trigger anything.
Any suggestions on what areas to check in the CPO circuit would be much appreciated :0

Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, sasami@... wrote:
>
>
> 47k, 150k, 470k, 820R 680R
>
> Cheers,
> Ken
>
> Ken
>
> >> As i mentioned earlier in the thread this is the old style boards (non
> RoHS), Just wondering at this point if there is a component value that might
> be incorrect on all 8 stage boards.
> >>
> >
> >okay, had an even closer look and i noticed that H was only going up to
> 6.7v when pressing the button so i figured this might have something to do
> with resistor values.
> >I went back over the boards and i noticed a discrepency between the
> silkscreen rev A and the picture of the rev b boards on the CGS site.
> >The row of resistors closest to the LED and diode on my board are (in order
> of closest to farthest (47k,47k,470k,820r,680r) and the CGS site with the
> revB boards (47k,150k,470k,820r,680r)
> >
> >Now to further complicate things i was following the values listed on the
> website, BUT i got the 47k and 150k REVERSED which probably explains the
> voltage drop.
> >My question here is, Which should i follow for these REV A (non RoHS)
> boards. 47k, 47k, or 47k, 150k?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Ken Stone sasami@... otherunicorn@...
> Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.cgs.synth.net/>
> Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>
>

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

2012-01-29 by sasami@hotkey.net.au

>When i measure the output of CPO it goes from 111mv to 201mv when the

button is pushed which is obviously not high enough to trigger anything.

>Any suggestions on what areas to check in the CPO circuit would be much

appreciated :0

A meter won't help because it only PULSES. The pulse is very short.
None the less:
All Type B boards that do not have a revision number have an error.
Physically between the two BC557s on the PCB is a 47k resistor. This should
be 470k, and will solve problems some of you are having with the common
pulse out.
I do not think you have that version of the board though. I expect you have
a ver1.1

AEP gives a pulse out every time the sequence moves, whatever the reason, be
it button, or clock or preset input.

Ken

>It was a big pain to swap these out after everything was mounted and wired

but i did it and now all the buttony-buttons work.

>
>Now to try to figure out why CPO and AEP doesnt work.
>I'll focus on CPO for now since i'm not really sure what AEP is supposed to

do. (i'll do some reading on this later once i have CPO working)

>I have gone through the schematic and traced all part values and everything

appears to be correct, but its also possible that ive missed something.

>When a button is pushed the A bus goes high to 6.20v and the stage selects

correctly.

>When i measure the output of CPO it goes from 111mv to 201mv when the

button is pushed which is obviously not high enough to trigger anything.

>Any suggestions on what areas to check in the CPO circuit would be much

appreciated :0

>
>
>
>--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, sasami@... wrote:
>>
>>
>> 47k, 150k, 470k, 820R 680R
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ken
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> >> As i mentioned earlier in the thread this is the old style boards (non
>> RoHS), Just wondering at this point if there is a component value that might
>> be incorrect on all 8 stage boards.
>> >>
>> >
>> >okay, had an even closer look and i noticed that H was only going up to
>> 6.7v when pressing the button so i figured this might have something to do
>> with resistor values.
>> >I went back over the boards and i noticed a discrepency between the
>> silkscreen rev A and the picture of the rev b boards on the CGS site.
>> >The row of resistors closest to the LED and diode on my board are (in order
>> of closest to farthest (47k,47k,470k,820r,680r) and the CGS site with the
>> revB boards (47k,150k,470k,820r,680r)
>> >
>> >Now to further complicate things i was following the values listed on the
>> website, BUT i got the 47k and 150k REVERSED which probably explains the
>> voltage drop.
>> >My question here is, Which should i follow for these REV A (non RoHS)
>> boards. 47k, 47k, or 47k, 150k?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >------------------------------------
>> >
>> >The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
>> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Ken Stone sasami@... otherunicorn@...
>> Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.cgs.synth.net/>
>> Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>
>>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

2012-01-29 by ch1nard

--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, sasami@... wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> >When i measure the output of CPO it goes from 111mv to 201mv when the
> button is pushed which is obviously not high enough to trigger anything.
> >Any suggestions on what areas to check in the CPO circuit would be much
> appreciated :0
>
> A meter won't help because it only PULSES. The pulse is very short.
> None the less:
> All Type B boards that do not have a revision number have an error.
> Physically between the two BC557s on the PCB is a 47k resistor. This should
> be 470k, and will solve problems some of you are having with the common
> pulse out.
> I do not think you have that version of the board though. I expect you have
> a ver1.1
>

Yes the silkscreen on this board does list 470k instead of 47k, as well i noticed it in red on the board layout on the project page so it definitely has a 470k resistor in there. I also just gone done removing and testing the part to make sure it was indeed 470k so we are good there.

I tried looking at the CPO under a scope and it was still very very low pulse output, but there IS a pulse making its way through. (still around 100mv)

> AEP gives a pulse out every time the sequence moves, whatever the reason, be
> it button, or clock or preset input.
>

okay this is just stays high @4.64v no matter what i do.

> Ken
>
> >It was a big pain to swap these out after everything was mounted and wired
> but i did it and now all the buttony-buttons work.
> >
> >Now to try to figure out why CPO and AEP doesnt work.
> >I'll focus on CPO for now since i'm not really sure what AEP is supposed to
> do. (i'll do some reading on this later once i have CPO working)
> >I have gone through the schematic and traced all part values and everything
> appears to be correct, but its also possible that ive missed something.
> >When a button is pushed the A bus goes high to 6.20v and the stage selects
> correctly.
> >When i measure the output of CPO it goes from 111mv to 201mv when the
> button is pushed which is obviously not high enough to trigger anything.
> >Any suggestions on what areas to check in the CPO circuit would be much
> appreciated :0
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, sasami@ wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> 47k, 150k, 470k, 820R 680R
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Ken
> >>
> >> Ken
> >>
> >> >> As i mentioned earlier in the thread this is the old style boards (non
> >> RoHS), Just wondering at this point if there is a component value that might
> >> be incorrect on all 8 stage boards.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >okay, had an even closer look and i noticed that H was only going up to
> >> 6.7v when pressing the button so i figured this might have something to do
> >> with resistor values.
> >> >I went back over the boards and i noticed a discrepency between the
> >> silkscreen rev A and the picture of the rev b boards on the CGS site.
> >> >The row of resistors closest to the LED and diode on my board are (in order
> >> of closest to farthest (47k,47k,470k,820r,680r) and the CGS site with the
> >> revB boards (47k,150k,470k,820r,680r)
> >> >
> >> >Now to further complicate things i was following the values listed on the
> >> website, BUT i got the 47k and 150k REVERSED which probably explains the
> >> voltage drop.
> >> >My question here is, Which should i follow for these REV A (non RoHS)
> >> boards. 47k, 47k, or 47k, 150k?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> >The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
> >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >> Ken Stone sasami@ otherunicorn@
> >> Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.cgs.synth.net/>
> >> Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Ken Stone sasami@... otherunicorn@...
> Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.cgs.synth.net/>
> Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>
>

Cgs synth

CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

Re: CGS59 sequencer/programmer troubleshooting?

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