Datacolor User to User Support Group.

Will,
I'm not sure, but suspect that the way Colorvision has chosen to deal 
with the UV effects of OBA's may be the variable.  I will, when I get 
time, profile a non OBA paper and see if the need to check Paper 
White Compensation remains necessary to obviate a great part of the 
color cast we note.
Paul

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "willruggles" <2rcp@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hey Paul,
> 
> Thanks for the encouragement. I am glad to hear that you arrived at
> good profiles and found that all your gear was OK. With the 
variables
> of a new (and expensive!) monitor setup, and a new iteration of the
> program, it got confusing for me. I wonder why we are experiencing
> roughly the same color shift issues, manageable as they may be with 
a
> relatively consistent range of adjustments. On the other hand, 
though
> you have found that different levels of Magenta and Blue will put
> things right, the need for up to 5 Magenta and 12 Blue indicates 
what
> is to me a lot of Green/Yellow to compensate for. The down side of
> this is it can present the need for a lot of testing, which is what 
I
> bought PFP to avoid. I wonder if it is that Eizo and Lacie have
> similar methods of describing and arriving at neutral colors, and 
that
> these are different from the Colorvision models used in developing
> PrinFixPro? I look forward to a response from David (s) to get his
> take on this color shift issue and on my questions about using dual
> monitors on a Mac in my original post.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Will
> 
> .--- In colorvision_group@...m, "bwinkjet" <bwinkjet@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Will,
> > 
> > Much of what you describe has been my experience as well.  David 
> > (both) helped and with a lot of work on my own I now have 
profiles 
> > that I feel are better than the canned profiles and as good as if 
not 
> > better than those provided with Image Print Rip.
> > 
> > My solution is:  When creating the profile go to reference white 
and 
> > check the box Paper White Compensation, effectively setting the b 
> > axis to 0.  With this done depending on the paper I am able to 
get 
> > very good profiles with 4-12 units of blue and on some, but not 
all, 
> > papers up to 5 units of magenta.  This is easily tweaked by 
several 
> > iterations until you are pleased.  I too worried my Eizo monitor 
> > (profiled) was off and tried calibration at 5500 up to 6500, 
gamma 
> > 1.8 and 2.2 and have come to the conclusion my monitor is OK, my 
> > printers are OK and the spectrocolorimeter is OK.  It took a 
while, 
> > but I learned a great deal including the viewing light is crucial.
> > 
> > HTH
> > 
> > Paul
> > 
> > "willruggles" <2rcp@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I am confused. I just got a Lacie 321 and also changed from 
> > Printfix Pro Beta to the final 
> > > 2.0 version. I printed a 225 patch as well as the extended gray 
one 
> > on Epson En Matte, and 
> > > after drying, read them, finally making profiles with and 
without 
> > the Extended Gray. 
> > > Printing from within PFP the Brightness and Contrast were 
pretty 
> > close, and saturation a bit 
> > > high, but the color was way off toward Yellow/Green. I printed 
some 
> > other images. They 
> > > also printed off with this green/yellow cast in color and black 
and 
> > white. Also, I saw little 
> > > difference with an intent of Sat or Perc. 
> > > 
> > > I was amazed since I had had better luck earlier with beta 
versions 
> > and using my old 
> > > monitor. So I tried a 729 with X-Gray reading. Very close to 
the 
> > 225 and off! I had to 
> > > adjust the Green down 6, Red up 1, and the Blue up 12 to get a 
> > decent match for my 
> > > monitor. Even with the new subtler color slider values this 
seems 
> > like a lot of adjustment 
> > > after nearly 1000 readings to make the profile for the printer. 
And 
> > all the gear is good 
> > > stuff that is carefully calibrated.
> > > 
> > > I use an Epson 2200 and Mac OS 10.4.8, a Lacie 321 and a 
Samsung 
> > 191T. I have the 
> > > desktop, menus and tools on the Samsung and the images from 
> > Photoshop on the Lacie. 
> > > Both monitors are calibrated to 5000K 2.2 gamma, 110 Luminance 
and 
> > I use a 5000K 
> > > viewing light. The Lacie is hardware calibrated and the 
Samsung's 
> > hardware is RGB 
> > > adjusted for color and luminance and software calibrated. They 
both 
> > look Neutral and 
> > > when dragging images across them, the color is pretty close. I 
am 
> > using Adobe RGB for the 
> > > Photoshop color space and printing to the new profiles, 
perceptual 
> > intent and letting 
> > > photoshop determine colors. The Epson paper choice is for 
Enhanced 
> > Matte (the paper I 
> > > am profiling for) with no color management.
> > > 
> > > First I wondered if Photoshop was using the profile from the 
> > Samsung while I was 
> > > adjusting images on the Lacie since the Mac menu bar and 
Photoshop 
> > tools are on the 
> > > samsung. So I looked, and its profile does show up as the 
monitor 
> > in use in the workspace 
> > > pull down in photoshop's color settings (I keep the workspace 
set 
> > at Adobe RGB). So I set 
> > > the Samsung Display preference to use the same profile as the 
> > Lacie, but the printing 
> > > seemed about the same. I do have the Samsung basically hardware 
> > calibrated though, so 
> > > Photoshop could be using its profile and it is so close to the 
> > Lacie profile that I have not 
> > > seen the difference in my limited testing. In the meantime I am 
> > choosing the Lacie profile 
> > > in the Samsung Display Color Preference for all testing just in 
> > case. Calibrating the Lacie to 
> > > 6500 or to a higher or lower luminance does not help. Also 
> > calibrating the Lacie (over the 
> > > previous hardware calibration) with Spyder Pro or Eye One 
software 
> > calibration changes 
> > > things a teeny bit on screen but printed I find any difference 
> > indiscernible. Certainly not 
> > > meaningful relative to the yellow/green shift.
> > > 
> > > So my questions are:
> > > 
> > > What am I doing wrong?
> > > Is this level of color shift in spec for Printfix Pro?
> > > Is my spectro off?
> > > Is it necessary to have your primary viewing monitor on a Mac 
be 
> > setup as such in 
> > > Photoshop so that its profile is the start of color management, 
or 
> > does it automatically 
> > > recognize the monitor the image is viewed on as the source 
monitor?
> > > If it is necessary, is there a way to do this (other than 
manually 
> > as I have been doing) and 
> > > still have the menu bar on the secondary monitor? I like not 
having 
> > anything but the photo 
> > > on the viewing monitor.
> > > 
> > > By the way, I love the black and white possibilities with PPF. 
With 
> > my printer left on color, 
> > > once the profile is tweaked, it works impressively for Black 
and 
> > White printing. Also, I 
> > > found it helpful tweaking out this color shift with a black and 
> > white image since the shifts 
> > > show up quite clearly against grays and black. And finally, 
> > contrast and brightness are 
> > > easier for me to discern without the distraction of color. So 
for 
> > color profiles, what a nice 
> > > addition the extended grays have brought to the tools!
> > > 
> > > Thanks for any advice.
> > > 
> > > Will
> > >
> >
>