Datacolor User to User Support Group.

My experience has been that Paper White Compensation is necessary  
(and possible) only with brightened papers. With non OBA papers there  
are no negative numbers to begin with.

Myron


On 6-Jan-07, at 3:01 PM, bwinkjet wrote:

> Will,
> I'm not sure, but suspect that the way Colorvision has chosen to deal
> with the UV effects of OBA's may be the variable.  I will, when I get
> time, profile a non OBA paper and see if the need to check Paper
> White Compensation remains necessary to obviate a great part of the
> color cast we note.
> Paul
>
> --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "willruggles" <2rcp@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Paul,
>>
>> Thanks for the encouragement. I am glad to hear that you arrived at
>> good profiles and found that all your gear was OK. With the
> variables
>> of a new (and expensive!) monitor setup, and a new iteration of the
>> program, it got confusing for me. I wonder why we are experiencing
>> roughly the same color shift issues, manageable as they may be with
> a
>> relatively consistent range of adjustments. On the other hand,
> though
>> you have found that different levels of Magenta and Blue will put
>> things right, the need for up to 5 Magenta and 12 Blue indicates
> what
>> is to me a lot of Green/Yellow to compensate for. The down side of
>> this is it can present the need for a lot of testing, which is what
> I
>> bought PFP to avoid. I wonder if it is that Eizo and Lacie have
>> similar methods of describing and arriving at neutral colors, and
> that
>> these are different from the Colorvision models used in developing
>> PrinFixPro? I look forward to a response from David (s) to get his
>> take on this color shift issue and on my questions about using dual
>> monitors on a Mac in my original post.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> Will
>>
>> .--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "bwinkjet" <bwinkjet@>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Will,
>>>
>>> Much of what you describe has been my experience as well.  David
>>> (both) helped and with a lot of work on my own I now have
> profiles
>>> that I feel are better than the canned profiles and as good as if
> not
>>> better than those provided with Image Print Rip.
>>>
>>> My solution is:  When creating the profile go to reference white
> and
>>> check the box Paper White Compensation, effectively setting the b
>>> axis to 0.  With this done depending on the paper I am able to
> get
>>> very good profiles with 4-12 units of blue and on some, but not
> all,
>>> papers up to 5 units of magenta.  This is easily tweaked by
> several
>>> iterations until you are pleased.  I too worried my Eizo monitor
>>> (profiled) was off and tried calibration at 5500 up to 6500,
> gamma
>>> 1.8 and 2.2 and have come to the conclusion my monitor is OK, my
>>> printers are OK and the spectrocolorimeter is OK.  It took a
> while,
>>> but I learned a great deal including the viewing light is crucial.
>>>
>>> HTH
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> "willruggles" <2rcp@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am confused. I just got a Lacie 321 and also changed from
>>> Printfix Pro Beta to the final
>>>> 2.0 version. I printed a 225 patch as well as the extended gray
> one
>>> on Epson En Matte, and
>>>> after drying, read them, finally making profiles with and
> without
>>> the Extended Gray.
>>>> Printing from within PFP the Brightness and Contrast were
> pretty
>>> close, and saturation a bit
>>>> high, but the color was way off toward Yellow/Green. I printed
> some
>>> other images. They
>>>> also printed off with this green/yellow cast in color and black
> and
>>> white. Also, I saw little
>>>> difference with an intent of Sat or Perc.
>>>>
>>>> I was amazed since I had had better luck earlier with beta
> versions
>>> and using my old
>>>> monitor. So I tried a 729 with X-Gray reading. Very close to
> the
>>> 225 and off! I had to
>>>> adjust the Green down 6, Red up 1, and the Blue up 12 to get a
>>> decent match for my
>>>> monitor. Even with the new subtler color slider values this
> seems
>>> like a lot of adjustment
>>>> after nearly 1000 readings to make the profile for the printer.
> And
>>> all the gear is good
>>>> stuff that is carefully calibrated.
>>>>
>>>> I use an Epson 2200 and Mac OS 10.4.8, a Lacie 321 and a
> Samsung
>>> 191T. I have the
>>>> desktop, menus and tools on the Samsung and the images from
>>> Photoshop on the Lacie.
>>>> Both monitors are calibrated to 5000K 2.2 gamma, 110 Luminance
> and
>>> I use a 5000K
>>>> viewing light. The Lacie is hardware calibrated and the
> Samsung's
>>> hardware is RGB
>>>> adjusted for color and luminance and software calibrated. They
> both
>>> look Neutral and
>>>> when dragging images across them, the color is pretty close. I
> am
>>> using Adobe RGB for the
>>>> Photoshop color space and printing to the new profiles,
> perceptual
>>> intent and letting
>>>> photoshop determine colors. The Epson paper choice is for
> Enhanced
>>> Matte (the paper I
>>>> am profiling for) with no color management.
>>>>
>>>> First I wondered if Photoshop was using the profile from the
>>> Samsung while I was
>>>> adjusting images on the Lacie since the Mac menu bar and
> Photoshop
>>> tools are on the
>>>> samsung. So I looked, and its profile does show up as the
> monitor
>>> in use in the workspace
>>>> pull down in photoshop's color settings (I keep the workspace
> set
>>> at Adobe RGB). So I set
>>>> the Samsung Display preference to use the same profile as the
>>> Lacie, but the printing
>>>> seemed about the same. I do have the Samsung basically hardware
>>> calibrated though, so
>>>> Photoshop could be using its profile and it is so close to the
>>> Lacie profile that I have not
>>>> seen the difference in my limited testing. In the meantime I am
>>> choosing the Lacie profile
>>>> in the Samsung Display Color Preference for all testing just in
>>> case. Calibrating the Lacie to
>>>> 6500 or to a higher or lower luminance does not help. Also
>>> calibrating the Lacie (over the
>>>> previous hardware calibration) with Spyder Pro or Eye One
> software
>>> calibration changes
>>>> things a teeny bit on screen but printed I find any difference
>>> indiscernible. Certainly not
>>>> meaningful relative to the yellow/green shift.
>>>>
>>>> So my questions are:
>>>>
>>>> What am I doing wrong?
>>>> Is this level of color shift in spec for Printfix Pro?
>>>> Is my spectro off?
>>>> Is it necessary to have your primary viewing monitor on a Mac
> be
>>> setup as such in
>>>> Photoshop so that its profile is the start of color management,
> or
>>> does it automatically
>>>> recognize the monitor the image is viewed on as the source
> monitor?
>>>> If it is necessary, is there a way to do this (other than
> manually
>>> as I have been doing) and
>>>> still have the menu bar on the secondary monitor? I like not
> having
>>> anything but the photo
>>>> on the viewing monitor.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, I love the black and white possibilities with PPF.
> With
>>> my printer left on color,
>>>> once the profile is tweaked, it works impressively for Black
> and
>>> White printing. Also, I
>>>> found it helpful tweaking out this color shift with a black and
>>> white image since the shifts
>>>> show up quite clearly against grays and black. And finally,
>>> contrast and brightness are
>>>> easier for me to discern without the distraction of color. So
> for
>>> color profiles, what a nice
>>>> addition the extended grays have brought to the tools!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any advice.
>>>>
>>>> Will
>>>>
>>>
>>
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