Datacolor User to User Support Group.

Hi Bob,

 

I'm too old to think in LAB, so I converted to RGB using this online
calculator:

 

http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?ColorCalcHelp.html

 

The resulting RGB values are printed next to your measured values.  CD is
certainly correct, The Spyder values are very neutral. I don't think you can
improve on them (Don't know what happened on that last measurement.)

 

For the Canon numbers, they are slightly biased towards blue. This may have
been done deliberately by Canon. It's like the laundry detergents that have
bluing agents in them to make the whites look whiter. 

 

If you like the Canon grays better, you might look at the adjustments in the
DataColor software; I think they have an adjustment preset for "cool1" or
"cool2".  I think these will give a blue bias but you might like the look
better.

 

As to matching monitor-to-print.  You want to match the soft proof to the
print, not the monitor (no soft proof) to the print.  I think CD mentioned
this.  The reason is that the monitor and printer have different
capabilities. The printer's capabilities are usually less than the monitor
(ink/paper limits) so your profile has to take the monitor colors and bring
them within the capabilities of the printer.  The soft proof tries to
simulate this process.  I think you said you have PhotoShop. If you do, it
might be interesting to soft proof the image in Photoshop with the Spyder
profile and the Canon profile to see any differences.

 

It is possible that Canon manipulates their profiles to make photos look
better or "pop".  The "no adjustment" profile that Spyder produces is
designed to be "faithful"; enhancing is left to the post-processing.  Again,
adjustments to the profile development are available in Spyder3Print.  The
nice thing about this software is you can reuse the existing measurements to
try different settings and see what happens to the soft proof.

 

I don't know if I've been of any help, but at least we know that the Spyder
is producing a "mechanically neutral " grey.

 

Bob Schoner

  _____  

From: datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cdtobie
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 8:35 PM
To: datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [datacolor_group] Re: Spyder3Print profiles worse than standard
Canon driver?

 






Your Spyder profile grays aren't quite as neutral as they would be with a
pigment printer with multiple grays, but they tend to be within two units of
neutral (an excellent printer/paper combo can manage to get them all within
one unit of neutral). The Canon canned profiles have a bias towards red
(positive a) and a HUGE bias towards blue (negative b). Interesting that
these results could be seen as better... The Spyder is definately doing it's
job. Oh, and while you see the grays as weak in the Spyder profile, the
midgray measures as a bit darker than the Canon midgray; though both are
very close to a middle density. 

C. D. Tobie 

Global Product Technology Mngr.

Digital Imaging & Home Theater

Datacolor.com

CDTobie@...


On Sep 3, 2009, at 11:06 PM, Bob Petruska <petruska@...> wrote:

Bob, Dave....

OK, I performed the grey block measurements.  Just so we are all clear,
these are the grey blocks for the B/W photo with the church and boat.

I first calibrated the Spectro a few times and measured the white disk in
the Spectro base.

L 90.24
a -1.05
b -1.16


Canon Photo Paper Pro paper white measurement.

L 95.51  R 240  G  242  B247
a 0.30
b -2.85

Now the following are the two large grey and black blocks at the bottom to
the left of the word datacolor.

Grey.

L 48.28  R119  G113  B114
a 2.13
b 0.52


Black.

L 8.22
a -0.34
b -4.66


I also measured 4 of the grey blocks in the two rows of grey blocks at the
bottom.

Top Left

L 91.59  R230  G231  B233
a 0.11
b -1.05


Top Right

L 56.78  R137  G135  B140
a 1.63
b -2.25


Bottom Left

L 50.47  R122  G119  B122
a 1.53
b -1.05


Bottom Right...

L 32.12  R58.7  G78.5  B87.5    ??????
a -5.23
b -7.75





I measured the same blocks using the Canon standard driver...

Grey

L 50.84  R119   G 120  B137
a 3.17
-b 9.29

Black

L 7.10
a 1.37
b -5.26


Top Left

L 94.89  R239   G240  B245
a 0.73
b -2.48

Top Right

L 54.11  R128  G128  B143
a 2.87
b -8.10

Bottom Left

L 52.77  R124  G125  B141
a 3.16
b -8.66


Bottom Right

L 10.40   R21.7  G29  B36
a -1.01
b -6.20



The B/W  photo on the monitor looks great, neutral,  grey.

The Spyder ICC profile print doesn't even look close, more of a weaker grey
appearance with an extremely faint tint that looks like it is heading
towards red.

The  Canon Standard driver  print is a very close match with an extremely
faint tint heading towards blue.

I also printed out a photo of a blood red car on green grass, the Spyder
profile printed more of an orange red and light green grass compared to the
monitor image, were the Canon standard driver printed the red car and green
grass the correct monitor colors.


Bob, the Canon Pro 9000 has the same 6 inks as the I950 but with two
additional red and green inks, sorry no grey.


I hope that all this helps determine where I'm going wrong.

CD, yes the 9500 is probably going to give me more of a match, but most of
the people I shoot these photos for want gloss.


Regards,

Bob P.
















At 06:21 PM 9/3/2009, you wrote:



  

Yes, you can use the larger medium gray patch in the lower left image in
SpyderProof, printed directly from Spyder3Print, to check measured
neutrality of midtones. Actually, any point in that image will give you a
neutrality measurement. 

C. D. Tobie
Global Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
 <http://Datacolor.com> Datacolor.com
 <mailto:CDTobie@...> CDTobie@...

On Sep 3, 2009, at 3:59 PM, Bob Petruska < <mailto:petruska@...>
petruska@... > wrote:




Bob S.

What grey color would you like me to measure and how do I do that?

Should I go into Photoshop and make a grey square with designated RGB
values?

Then print the square using my Spyder generated profile, then measure using
the Spectro?


Thanks,


Bob P.




At 03:17 PM 9/3/2009, you wrote:



  



-----Original Message-----
From:  <mailto:datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com>
datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com
[  <mailto:datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com>
mailto:datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of C D Tobie
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 9:04 AM
To:  <mailto:datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com>
datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [datacolor_group] Re: Spyder3Print profiles worse than standard
Canon driver? [1 Attachment]

On Sep 2, 2009, at 11:19 PM, Bob Petruska wrote:

> Ran the same as 2 above, got the same results; printout is slightly 
> color saturated, towards red tint, soft-proof slightly washed out 
> and fixed it with the soft-proof black level. Canon Standard Driver 
> matches the original image very well. I would like to say that this 
> printer is one huge printer and I really can't see any printout 
> detail differences against the I950.

As for color tint, we really can't talk about that without discussing 
what lighting is involved. 

Hi CD,

Thanks for monitoring this site the way you do, it is very informative.

As for the tint that Bob P is experiencing, could he measure a grey patch
with the Spyder Spectro and report the results? This would remove any
lighting consideration and maybe give a clue as to how to correct. Or, am I
off base here?

Thanks,

Bob Schoner

 








=