Datacolor User to User Support Group.

Thanks for the helpful response.  A full 3D ICC profile for the Epson
color driver is clearly desirable if I want to tint my B&W prints.  But
I generally don't, and the ABW driver produces a better pure-neutral B&W
print than the Epson color driver can, with or without a custom profile
used with the color driver.   (Longevity is a secondary consideration,
and really not a consideration at all for me, since my photographs are
not displayed in a way that makes that a problem anytime soon.)

So I do still have the question whether I can produce a Lab L*
linearizing profile for use with ABW with the Datacolor product (don't
need to debate whether this is a true ICC profile, a "shell" profile, or
not a "true" profile).  I can use something like the CreateICC utility,
but I'd rather use a Datacolor profilemaker without a lot of klutzy
workarounds.

Thanks, Bill


--- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, Cdtobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:
>
> The theoretical advantage of AWB over color mode is that it uses
> slightly less color ink in the mix; so years from now it may have
> slightly less colorshift from fading. Both modes hold their neutrality
> well under different lighting conditions, so there the theoretical
> longterm difference is the only difference I can see in terms of
output.
>
> In terms of process the differences are greater. For those who don't
> use custom profiles AWB is a handy way to output B&W. For those who
> build Spyder3Print output profiles, using those profiles for B&W and
> tinted B&W output offers significant extra convenience and control. It
> allows a full ICC workflow with softproof, it allows cross-tints
> (which AWB does not do), and it allows neutrals in color images, or
> mixes of color and B&W images in a montage.
>
> AWB profiles can be built with the shareware CreateICC utility and any
> of the Datacolor patch readers, but these are actually linearizations
> in the shell of an ICC profile, they do not control neutrality or
> tinting, only linearity. The user needs to tweak neutrality in the AWB
> controls, or blindly define tints there, and as mentioned above, this
> does not allow for cross-tints.
>
> So the Datacolor profile method allows full ICC process from the same
> profile used for color printing, or from a rebuild of it, allows
> previews of neutrality and tinting, and subtle controls for all of
> this. But some purists will suggest the AWB route (despite the less
> documented tools and more difficult techniques) is theoretically more
> desirable due to the reduced color ink component (from very little, to
> even a little less).
>
> C. D. Tobie
> Global Product Technology Mngr.
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> Datacolor.com
> CDTobie@...
>
> On Jan 1, 2010, at 12:32 PM, "billy_iverson"
> bill.iverson@... wrote:
>
> > Cutting to the chase, my questions are (1) Whether I can get a
> > better BW print using Epson ABW printing and a profile developed
> > specifically for use with ABW printing, or using a grayscale profile
> > built with Spyder3Print for use with a standard "Color" mode
> > printing workflow on my Epson 4800? (2) If ABW has advantages
> > (better linearity, or otherwise), what's the best way to build an
> > ABW profile?
> > BACKGROUND: To my surprise, I found the other day that using Eric
> > Chan's 3800 ABW profile for Innova Ultra Smooth on my 4800 produced
> > a significantly better print than simply using my Epson 4800 ABW
> > print dialog (same ABW settings except the "straight" ABW print used
> > the Innova recommended paper type and "Printer Manages Colors,"
> > while the Eric Chan print used his recommended paper type and
> > "Photoshop Manages Colors" with his 3800 profile.
> > Naturally that made me want to explore building (or buying) an ABW
> > profile specifically for my 4800. Exploring that, I've found (1) a
> > rather confusing -- to me -- thread in this group (@Jan. 2008) where
> > CDTobie (of Datacolor, of course) indicates, as I understand his
> > messages, "Yes, you can build an ABW profile with Spyder3Print (or
> > predecessor product), but it's less flexible and no better than a
> > regular profile built for use with the normal color printing
> > workflow," and (2) a somewhat later thread in another group with a
> > detailed workflow suggestion for building ABW profiles using a
> > competitor's spectrophotometer and the QTR B&W test strip, with
> > messages in the thread from CDTobie indicating how to accommodate
> > that workflow to use the DataColor products (without commenting, so
> > far as I can see, on whether the ABW profile workfliw will produce a
> > superior result).
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
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> >
> >
> >
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