Datacolor User to User Support Group.

Hi Everyone,

New here and did some searching on the archives only to see that there are hardly any 
posts about the new PFP 2.0.  I went out and got one because of the early reports that it 
could produce Gallery quality BW output on a K3 printer.  Except for the Help section, I 
haven't seen any in-depth documentation on how to get the best results with this product.  
So maybe someone here would care to share their workflow because my results are not up 
to standard.  
Maybe someone would care to share their workflow and comment on mine.

Here's what I did:
1) Through the program, printed the 700+ Color Target and the 200+ Extended Gray 
Target
2) Measured both targets carefully
3) Didn't make any slider adjustments in the program and had the program create a profile
4) Changed my grayscale file to Adobe RGB
5) Let Photoshop Determine Colors
6) Loaded new PFP 2.0 Profile
7) Saturation intent- I tbought I read this somewhere.  
7) Under the printer driver followed same settings as when I printed the targets.  In my 
case Premium Luster 250 / 1440.  The paper I used was the Innova F-Gloss
8) No Color Management
9) Print

And the results:   A green cast on the BW.  When i hold up a fiber print next to the PFP 
print, it definitely shows the cast.  And also a lack of contrast.  

This new software intrigues me because I like the different options for accurate toning that 
it can provide.  Now i hope some of the experts can comment and send me on my way.  

Thanks in advance.

>Hi Everyone,
>
>New here and did some searching on the archives only to see that there are hardly any
>posts about the new PFP 2.0. I went out and got one because of the early reports that it
>could produce Gallery quality BW output on a K3 printer. Except for the Help section, I
>haven't seen any in-depth documentation on how to get the best results with this product.
>So maybe someone here would care to share their workflow because my results are not up
>to standard.
>Maybe someone would care to share their workflow and comment on mine.
>

Here's something I've written up that you can use as a supplement to
what's in the Help files:


First, print one of the color targets (either 225 or 729 patches; I'd suggest
starting with 225, to keep things simple, then try again with 729 later if you
like).

Then print the Extended Grays target. If you do the 225 colors and the 238
extended grays, you'll have two sheets of letter size targets ready to measure.

It's extremely important that you print both of these on the same paper, using
the same driver settings.

Then, on the Read Patches screen, measure each one of them. Before you step
forward into that screen, you need to set "which" kind of target you're going
to be measuring on the Select Target screen. So: Select Target: 225; click
Next; Save Measurements To...; then Read Patches. Step back to Select Target:
Extended Grays; click Next; Save Measurements To...; Read Patches again. Now
you have measurements saved for colors, and for grays.

Visually check them, too, for accuracy. Open up the Target window for each,
switch to Measured mode so you can see only the measured colors, drag on the
lower right corner to make the window even larger, then visually compare to
your target print. You should see a reasonably close match. Look for "bad"
measurements, which (if they exist) will typically be too-light patches that
stand out among their neighbors in the darker regions; they should be easy
to spot. Remeasure any bad ones (arrow keys to locate the patch, then measure
again).

Now that you've got these, you can Build.

The Extended Grays are used as a supplement to the colors; but you don't build
a profile straight from them; that why if you select them in the measurement
list, you can't step forward to the Build screen. (We have to let them show
UP in that popup, though, because you need a way to measure and preview and
possibly remeasure them).

Instead, this is what you do:

- Select your COLOR measurements in the main popup on the Read Patches screen.

- Once you do this, another checkbox and popup (smaller) will show up below
that, and your Extended Grays measurements will be in THAT popup. (All
Extended Grays measurements that are in your Data:PRO folder will show up in
this supplementary popup below the main popup). Use that smaller popup to
select "which" extended grays measurements you want to use; and then CHECK
the checkbox if you want them to actually be USED when you build the profile.
(If the checkbox isn't checked, then when you build, only the color measurements
will be used when you build the profile).

- To summarize: to build a profile with Extended Grays used as part of the
profiling process:

  - Measure a color target and a grays target

  - Select the color target in the main popup

  - Select the extended grays target in the supplementary popup that appears
    below it; and also CHECK the "Use extended grays" checkbox.


Best regards,

-- 
David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
ColorVision

<snip>
>
>And the results: A green cast on the BW. When i hold up a fiber print next to the PFP
>print, it definitely shows the cast. And also a lack of contrast.
>
>This new software intrigues me because I like the different options for accurate toning that
>it can provide. Now i hope some of the experts can comment and send me on my way.
>

If you'd like, stuff or zip your paired measurement files and email them to me
off-list at davem@..., and I'll take a quick look at them and see
if there are any problems.


Best regards,

-- 
David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
ColorVision

David,
Thank you for this "tutorial". All the while I was reading it, the 
radio in the back ground was playing  "...put the lime in the coconut 
and shake it all up...
So let me get this straight, you put the lime in... No, I mean you 
measure the color target, step back and then measure the extended 
grey target, then go forward and build you profile from the two 
targets to create one profile. Is this new profile then used for only 
greyscale images, or is it also used for color also? 


--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, David Miller <dm2363@...> 
wrote:
> Here's something I've written up that you can use as a supplement to
> what's in the Help files:
> 
> 
> First, print one of the color targets (either 225 or 729 patches; 
I'd suggest
> starting with 225, to keep things simple, then try again with 729 
later if you
> like).
> 
> Then print the Extended Grays target. If you do the 225 colors and 
the 238
> extended grays, you'll have two sheets of letter size targets ready 
to measure.
> 
> It's extremely important that you print both of these on the same 
paper, using
> the same driver settings.
> 
> Then, on the Read Patches screen, measure each one of them. Before 
you step
> forward into that screen, you need to set "which" kind of target 
you're going
> to be measuring on the Select Target screen. So: Select Target: 
225; click
> Next; Save Measurements To...; then Read Patches. Step back to 
Select Target:
> Extended Grays; click Next; Save Measurements To...; Read Patches 
again. Now
> you have measurements saved for colors, and for grays.
> 
> Visually check them, too, for accuracy. Open up the Target window 
for each,
> switch to Measured mode so you can see only the measured colors, 
drag on the
> lower right corner to make the window even larger, then visually 
compare to
> your target print. You should see a reasonably close match. Look 
for "bad"
> measurements, which (if they exist) will typically be too-light 
patches that
> stand out among their neighbors in the darker regions; they should 
be easy
> to spot. Remeasure any bad ones (arrow keys to locate the patch, 
then measure
> again).
> 
> Now that you've got these, you can Build.
> 
> The Extended Grays are used as a supplement to the colors; but you 
don't build
> a profile straight from them; that why if you select them in the 
measurement
> list, you can't step forward to the Build screen. (We have to let 
them show
> UP in that popup, though, because you need a way to measure and 
preview and
> possibly remeasure them).
> 
> Instead, this is what you do:
> 
> - Select your COLOR measurements in the main popup on the Read 
Patches screen.
> 
> - Once you do this, another checkbox and popup (smaller) will show 
up below
> that, and your Extended Grays measurements will be in THAT popup. 
(All
> Extended Grays measurements that are in your Data:PRO folder will 
show up in
> this supplementary popup below the main popup). Use that smaller 
popup to
> select "which" extended grays measurements you want to use; and 
then CHECK
> the checkbox if you want them to actually be USED when you build 
the profile.
> (If the checkbox isn't checked, then when you build, only the color 
measurements
> will be used when you build the profile).
> 
> - To summarize: to build a profile with Extended Grays used as part 
of the
> profiling process:
> 
>   - Measure a color target and a grays target
> 
>   - Select the color target in the main popup
> 
>   - Select the extended grays target in the supplementary popup 
that appears

>     below it; and also CHECK the "Use extended grays" checkbox.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> -- 
> David Miller
> Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
> ColorVision
>

Just bumping this up to see if someone can answer this.


--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "Keith R." <kjrslr@...> 
wrote:
>
> David,
> Thank you for this "tutorial". All the while I was reading it, the 
> radio in the back ground was playing  "...put the lime in the 
coconut 
> and shake it all up...
> So let me get this straight, you put the lime in... No, I mean you 
> measure the color target, step back and then measure the extended 
> grey target, then go forward and build you profile from the two 
> targets to create one profile. Is this new profile then used for 
only 
> greyscale images, or is it also used for color also? 
> 
> 
> --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, David Miller <dm2363@> 
> wrote:
> > Here's something I've written up that you can use as a supplement 
to
> > what's in the Help files:
> > 
> > 
> > First, print one of the color targets (either 225 or 729 patches; 
> I'd suggest
> > starting with 225, to keep things simple, then try again with 729 
> later if you
> > like).
> > 
> > Then print the Extended Grays target. If you do the 225 colors 
and 
> the 238
> > extended grays, you'll have two sheets of letter size targets 
ready 
> to measure.
> > 
> > It's extremely important that you print both of these on the same 
> paper, using
> > the same driver settings.
> > 
> > Then, on the Read Patches screen, measure each one of them. 
Before 
> you step
> > forward into that screen, you need to set "which" kind of target 
> you're going
> > to be measuring on the Select Target screen. So: Select Target: 
> 225; click
> > Next; Save Measurements To...; then Read Patches. Step back to 
> Select Target:
> > Extended Grays; click Next; Save Measurements To...; Read Patches 
> again. Now
> > you have measurements saved for colors, and for grays.
> > 
> > Visually check them, too, for accuracy. Open up the Target window 
> for each,
> > switch to Measured mode so you can see only the measured colors, 
> drag on the
> > lower right corner to make the window even larger, then visually 
> compare to
> > your target print. You should see a reasonably close match. Look 
> for "bad"
> > measurements, which (if they exist) will typically be too-light 
> patches that
> > stand out among their neighbors in the darker regions; they 
should 
> be easy
> > to spot. Remeasure any bad ones (arrow keys to locate the patch, 
> then measure
> > again).
> > 
> > Now that you've got these, you can Build.
> > 
> > The Extended Grays are used as a supplement to the colors; but 
you 
> don't build
> > a profile straight from them; that why if you select them in the 
> measurement
> > list, you can't step forward to the Build screen. (We have to let 
> them show
> > UP in that popup, though, because you need a way to measure and 
> preview and
> > possibly remeasure them).
> > 
> > Instead, this is what you do:
> > 
> > - Select your COLOR measurements in the main popup on the Read 
> Patches screen.
> > 
> > - Once you do this, another checkbox and popup (smaller) will 
show 
> up below
> > that, and your Extended Grays measurements will be in THAT popup. 
> (All
> > Extended Grays measurements that are in your Data:PRO folder will 
> show up in
> > this supplementary popup below the main popup). Use that smaller 
> popup to
> > select "which" extended grays measurements you want to use; and 
> then CHECK
> > the checkbox if you want them to actually be USED when you build 
> the profile.
> > (If the checkbox isn't checked, then when you build, only the 
color 
> measurements
> > will be used when you build the profile).
> > 
> > - To summarize: to build a profile with Extended Grays used as 
part 

> of the
> > profiling process:
> > 
> >   - Measure a color target and a grays target
> > 
> >   - Select the color target in the main popup
> > 
> >   - Select the extended grays target in the supplementary popup 
> that appears
> >     below it; and also CHECK the "Use extended grays" checkbox.
> > 
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > 
> > -- 
> > David Miller
> > Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
> > ColorVision
> >
>