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QTR Linearization and Profiling

QTR Linearization and Profiling

2008-02-02 by Tom Husband

When I measure a 21 step grayscale with the spectro using Tool>Measure
what should be ticked off? I'd like to get Lab readings but if I tick
Lab and QTR Format Override nothing appears in the .txt file I
specify.  If I un-tick Lab and tick QTR Format Override there's a tick
that appears in an un-labeled area below (I don't know what it is). I
can then get readings but it's density readings not Lab and if I use
those in QTR the curves aren't right.  Obviously I'm missing
something.  I can't seem to find a procedure on this.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom Husband
Spyder3Print v3.0

RE: [colorvision_group] QTR Linearization and Profiling

2008-02-03 by Tom Moore

Tom

You should be able to use density readings with QTR. That's what I have done
for years with my X-Rite 810. However, to use S3Print L* readings I had to
take the export file and paste it into MS Excel and then select the L*
column values and copy them. Then I could paste those values into the QTR
linearization table.

It seems the QTR Format Override check box only does something useful if you
select the CreateICC radio button. With the unlabelled button check, it
seems to do nothing with the values, as far as exporting is concerned.

Tom Moore
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Husband
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 6:30 PM
> To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [colorvision_group] QTR Linearization and Profiling
> 
> When I measure a 21 step grayscale with the spectro using Tool>Measure
> what should be ticked off? I'd like to get Lab readings but if I tick
> Lab and QTR Format Override nothing appears in the .txt file I
> specify.  If I un-tick Lab and tick QTR Format Override there's a tick
> that appears in an un-labeled area below (I don't know what it is). I
> can then get readings but it's density readings not Lab and if I use
> those in QTR the curves aren't right.  Obviously I'm missing
> something.  I can't seem to find a procedure on this.

RE: [colorvision_group] QTR Linearization and Profiling

2008-02-04 by Tom Moore

Tom

 

We must be doing something different. I don't get any file with
LINEARIZE=... in it. The file just has a series of density values, one per
line. In lab mode it's L. a and b values, one set per line.

 

I'm using the Tools/measure menu item to bring up the measure window and
then selecting a file to export to. 

 

As for the CreateICC function I it seems not to be very useful. I just use
the measurement window with Lab selected, QTR Format Override NOT checked
and use the "Export too." button to specify a file to receive the measured
values. Once I've done the measurements of the stepwedge, I open the export
file and copy them into Excel. There I can select just the L* values and
paste them into QTR.

 

Tom Moore

 

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Husband
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 2:59 PM
To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [colorvision_group] QTR Linearization and Profiling

 

Thanks Tom.  The export file I got just had:
LINEARIZE=*2.12....down to....0.03 so when I plug those numbers into QTR
it's way too light at the low end.  I thought those numbers were densities
but I guess they're Lab.  I get no ink at all or paper white at around 15%.
I didn't get any other numbers in the export.  On the existing QTR curves,
like Silver Rag, the numbers are from 97 something down.

I've been using my X-rite 810 also for sometime but thought the S3 spectro
would faster.  So you're saying I should use the create ICC function for
linearization of QTR curves?



What I'm doing is re-linearizing the Silver Rag curves to make curves for
Gold Fibre Silk.

_,_._,___

Using PrintFIX PRO/Spyder3Print with QTR

2008-02-04 by David Miller

Hopefully, this will clear some things up!

The controls in the Tools:Measure window are designed
to give you a simplified workflow for measuring the
QTR step wedges and saving the results into a text
format that's suitable for using with QTR. There are
two variations of this: a) Measuring and saving the
results so that they can be used directly in a QTR
ink definition file (think of this as the "first"
linearization), and b) Measuring and saving the
results so that they can be used with the CreateICC
tool, which creates a 2nd linearization (further
improvement for smoothness) and creates a specialized
ICC profile which can be used in Photoshop.

***

1. For the main linearization (to be used in QTR ink
definition files):

- Click on Export To: and choose the name of a
temporary file to save your measurements into. (This
file will be written into PFP's "Export" data folder)

- Select Density

- Check the QTR Format Override box. (This tells PFP
to write the density measurements into the file format
that's specifically needed to use with QTR, rather
than as simply a series of text lines containing
density values).

- Make sure the Linearization radio button, beneath
that checkbox, is selected.

- Measure your QTR step wedges. (Either by pressing
down on the spectro's nose as you move across them,
or using the Return/Enter key to take the measurements
while you move the spectro) When you're finished,
click Done. NOTE: You have to take -exactly- 21 wedge
step measurements here, so make sure that you're using
the QTR 21-step gray wedges and that you measure each
patch.

- Use PFP's File:Open Export command to open the
Export data folder. You should see your exported
file containing the QTR data there.

- Open it with any text editor, in you'll see the
LINEARIZE="..." line of text containing the
measured density values. (NOTE: With PrintFIX PRO
2.0 and 2.1, there was a bug, and this line would
contain LINEARIZATION instead of LINEARIZE. If you
used PFP 2.0 or 2.1 to create the file, change it
to LINEARIZE (manually). This bug was fixed in
Spyder3Print.) Then, copy and paste the entire line,
starting with "LINEARIZE", into the bottom of a QTR
ink definition file. Consult the QTR documentation
if you're not sure how to proceed with this.

2. For a file to be used with the CreateICC tool,
repeat the procedure for (1) above, but click Lab
rather than Density, and click the CreateICC radio
button, rather than the Linearization radio button,
below the QTR Format Override checkbox. You'll end
up with a text file that contains Lab values that
are formatted so that you can use them directly with
the CreateICC tool. (If you're not sure how to use
CreateICC, again, consult the QTR documentation).


David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

Re: [colorvision_group] QTR Linearization and Profiling

2008-02-04 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 2/2/08 6:29:47 PM, tom.husband@... writes:


When I measure a 21 step grayscale with the spectro using Tool>Measure
what should be ticked off?


Lab if you want Lab, Density if you want Visual Density, and QTR only if you want to export for QTR. If that does not produce the expected result, send a copy of the resulting file to so he can take a look at it.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3



**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)

Re: [colorvision_group] QTR Linearization and Profiling

2008-02-04 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 2/3/08 2:58:50 PM, tom.husband@... writes:


Thanks Tom. The export file I got just had:
LINEARIZE=*2.12....down to....0.03 so when I plug those numbers into QTR it's way too light at the low end.


To make these densities paper relative, try calibrating your spectro on the paper white, unstead of the spectro's white tile. That should elieminate the issue you note here; but remember to recalibrate before using for anything else!

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3



**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)

Re: [colorvision_group] QTR Linearization and Profiling

2008-02-04 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 2/3/08 11:54:50 PM, tom.husband@... writes:


Thanks again, Tom. I'll have to play around some more. Maybe CD Tobie will have something to say about it.



Back from PMA, sorry for the gap. Actually, I don't have much to say about it. We need any one who's not getting what they should from this to file a detailed report, including their OS version and software version, and attaching the exported file, to colorvision support, so we can fix any issues that might exist.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3



**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)

RE: [colorvision_group] QTR Linearization and Profiling

2008-02-04 by Tom Moore

David and C. David

 

David #1's post explaining how to use the Measure panel to get QTR values
cleared things up. I've tried following his instructions exactly and S3Print
does produce an export file as he describes.

 

I do have some comments though - do with them as you will:

 

1.	The information provided by David should be somewhere in the help
files. I looked and couldn't find it.
2.	What was confusing me was that you have to exit the Measure panel to
have anything written to the export file when in Linearization mode. This is
different from all other modes. I understand why, but a note to this effect
in the documentation would help.
3.	The radio button on the Measure panel under the QTR Format Override
checkbox is unlabeled - perhaps it should be called Linearization or some
such. There is also an unlabeled radio button on the Tools/Export panel that
I think should have the label LAB.
4.	When you select either of the buttons under the QTR Format Override,
the LAB and Density radio buttons are cleared. For people who work mainly in
Lab mode, it would be nice to have the linearization exported as a series of
L* values. QTR will also accept those.
5.	The Tools/Measure panel Export To. button does not remember the last
file name used and does not provide the ability to browse to select a file
name. Both abilities would be nice.

 

This may not the right forum to make suggestions. If so, let me know and
I'll resend to the right place. Also, I hope you will take these suggestions
in the manner I intended - as constructive comments. S3Print is a great
package - that doesn't mean it can't be better.

 

Tom Moore

 

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CDTobie@...
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 1:10 PM
To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [colorvision_group] QTR Linearization and Profiling

 


In a message dated 2/3/08 11:54:50 PM, tom.husband@... writes:





Thanks again, Tom.  I'll have to play around some more.  Maybe CD Tobie will
have something to say about it.



Back from PMA, sorry for the gap. Actually, I don't have much to say about
it. We need any one who's not getting what they should from this to file a
detailed report, including their OS version and software version, and
attaching the exported file, to colorvision support, so we can fix any
issues that might exist.

Re: Using PrintFIX PRO/Spyder3Print with QTR

2009-07-01 by Keith R.

--- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, David Miller <dm2363@...> wrote:
>
> - Measure your QTR step wedges. (Either by pressing
> down on the spectro's nose as you move across them,
> or using the Return/Enter key to take the measurements
> while you move the spectro) When you're finished,
> click Done. NOTE: You have to take -exactly- 21 wedge
> step measurements here, so make sure that you're using
> the QTR 21-step gray wedges and that you measure each
> patch.
>> 
> David Miller
> Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
> Datacolor
>
I know I'm coming to this later than this was originally posted(4FEB2008) but I just recently downloaded QTR and am trying to wade through the multitude of questions and answers on this and the QTR forum.
My first question at this time is the above post from Mr. Miller states the use and measurement of the 21 step wedge. Is there a problem if the 51 step wedge is used instead? Or is the SP3 software only able to handle the 21?

Re: Using PrintFIX PRO/Spyder3Print with QTR

2009-07-01 by John Vitollo

--- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, "Keith R." <kjrslr@...> wrote:
...
> I know I'm coming to this later than this was originally posted(4FEB2008) but I just recently downloaded QTR and am trying to wade through the multitude of questions and answers on this and the QTR forum.
> My first question at this time is the above post from Mr. Miller states the use and measurement of the 21 step wedge. Is there a problem if the 51 step wedge is used instead? Or is the SP3 software only able to handle the 21?

No problem with PrintFix Pro reading the 51 set wedge.... but Roy Harrington, the developer of QTR,  recommends the 21 step wedge to give the smoothest gray ramp. Roy found too many samples can create a not too smooth gray ramp.

Re: [datacolor_group] Re: Using PrintFIX PRO/Spyder3Print with QTR

2009-07-01 by C D Tobie

On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:26 AM, John Vitollo wrote:

> No problem with PrintFix Pro reading the 51 set wedge.... but Roy  
> Harrington, the developer of QTR,  recommends the 21 step wedge to  
> give the smoothest gray ramp. Roy found too many samples can create  
> a not too smooth gray ramp.

Smoothness and number of samples have an inverse relationship...

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

Re: [datacolor_group] Re: Using PrintFIX PRO/Spyder3Print with QTR

2009-07-01 by C D Tobie

On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:26 AM, John Vitollo wrote:

> No problem with PrintFix Pro reading the 51 set wedge

The question is what format and method you use to measure it. But your  
advice to not use it due to oversampling is a sound suggestion which  
would make this moot.

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

Re: Using PrintFIX PRO/Spyder3Print with QTR

2009-07-02 by Keith R.

Thanks for the info! Considering that the QRT "manual" is 4 years old and some of the recent additions(like Create ICC) are not covered, I really do appreciate the reply! Looks like I'll work with the 21 step wedge.

--- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, "John Vitollo" <jvlist@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> --- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, "Keith R." <kjrslr@> wrote:
> ...
> > I know I'm coming to this later than this was originally posted(4FEB2008) but I just recently downloaded QTR and am trying to wade through the multitude of questions and answers on this and the QTR forum.
> > My first question at this time is the above post from Mr. Miller states the use and measurement of the 21 step wedge. Is there a problem if the 51 step wedge is used instead? Or is the SP3 software only able to handle the 21?
> 
> No problem with PrintFix Pro reading the 51 set wedge.... but Roy Harrington, the developer of QTR,  recommends the 21 step wedge to give the smoothest gray ramp. Roy found too many samples can create a not too smooth gray ramp.
>

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