Yahoo Groups archive

Datacolor User to User Support Group.

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 23:18 UTC

Thread

New guy has some questions

New guy has some questions

2008-03-22 by rschoner

Hi,

I just purchased PrintFix Pro with the 1005 colorimeter and I 
uploaded the Spyder3 print software.  I used this to profile an Epson 
R1800 printer with Epson inks and Ilford premium photo pearl paper.

My first question deals with using the colorimeter.  When I am making 
the measurements the colorimeter sometimes skips ahead two or three 
squares instead of moving to the next square. I was very careful to 
make sure I was not double-clicking the colorimeter when releasing 
the button. Once it happened on the end of a row; it skipped to the 
third square on the next row.  I recover by backing up and re-
measuring the last good square.  Any suggestions?

The second question deals with evaluating the profile with 
SpyderProof. When I soft proof the adobe church I see "noise-like" 
blotches across the top of the blue sky (all intents). If I soft 
proof in my printing program (QImage) I don't see the blotches.  Is 
Spyder Proof more "severe"?  Also, is there any way to load another 
profile into Spyder Proof (That was not made by Spyder Print)? I 
would like to load the Ilford profile and SpyderProof it to compare 
to the PrintFix profile.  I tried File-Open Profile but I get a 
Windows can not open this file message.

Thanks,
Bob Schoner

Re: New guy has some questions/Solved skipping problem

2008-03-23 by rschoner

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "rschoner" <rschoner@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> I just purchased PrintFix Pro with the 1005 colorimeter and I 
> uploaded the Spyder3 print software.  I used this to profile an Epson 
> R1800 printer with Epson inks and Ilford premium photo pearl paper.
> 
> My first question deals with using the colorimeter.  When I am making 
> the measurements the colorimeter sometimes skips ahead two or three 
> squares instead of moving to the next square. I was very careful to 
> make sure I was not double-clicking the colorimeter when releasing 
> the button. Once it happened on the end of a row; it skipped to the 
> third square on the next row.  I recover by backing up and re-
> measuring the last good square.  Any suggestions?

I was holding the button down instead of press-and-release and that 
caused the skipping.  Press and release solved the problem.  Thanks for 
the video suggested to an earlier question.

Bob Schoner

RE: [colorvision_group] Re: New guy has some questions/Solved skipping problem

2008-03-23 by Randy Gentry

Another way to use the colorimeter is to hit the keyboard "enter" key each
time you want to take a measurement.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rschoner
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:56 AM
To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [colorvision_group] Re: New guy has some questions/Solved skipping
problem

 

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:colorvision_group%40yahoogroups.com> , "rschoner" <rschoner@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> I just purchased PrintFix Pro with the 1005 colorimeter and I 
> uploaded the Spyder3 print software. I used this to profile an Epson 
> R1800 printer with Epson inks and Ilford premium photo pearl paper.
> 
> My first question deals with using the colorimeter. When I am making 
> the measurements the colorimeter sometimes skips ahead two or three 
> squares instead of moving to the next square. I was very careful to 
> make sure I was not double-clicking the colorimeter when releasing 
> the button. Once it happened on the end of a row; it skipped to the 
> third square on the next row. I recover by backing up and re-
> measuring the last good square. Any suggestions?

I was holding the button down instead of press-and-release and that 
caused the skipping. Press and release solved the problem. Thanks for 
the video suggested to an earlier question.

Bob Schoner

 

__________ NOD32 2967 (20080321) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com

Re: [colorvision_group] New guy has some questions

2008-03-24 by David Miller

>
> The second question deals with evaluating the profile with
> SpyderProof. When I soft proof the adobe church I see "noise-like"
> blotches across the top of the blue sky (all intents). If I soft
> proof in my printing program (QImage) I don't see the blotches. Is
> Spyder Proof more "severe"?
>
Sounds like possible bad measurements. You can evaluate your results,
as I'm doing in that first longer video, to look for errors. (Of course,
my measurements were good and didn't have any; I'll have to do another
smaller video to show what bad measurements look like, but just watch
for patches that totally shift color or are too light or out-of-place
next to their neighbors). If you're still not sure, email me at
davem@... and attach your measurements to look at
(use File:Open Data to open the folder that contains them)
> Also, is there any way to load another
> profile into Spyder Proof (That was not made by Spyder Print)? I
> would like to load the Ilford profile and SpyderProof it to compare
> to the PrintFix profile. I tried File-Open Profile but I get a
> Windows can not open this file message.
>
>
No. (for once, an easy answer!)

The "Open Profiles" command in the File menu opens the FOLDER on your
system that contains profiles. It doesn't open profiles themselves.
You need to use a different utility to look at the gamut shapes of
profiles and evaluate them that way (in Mac OSX, the built-in
ColorSync Utility can do that for you).

Also: you can softproof through profiles quite easily in Photoshop,
using any images that you like, including the set we provide for
SpyderProof (the files are in the Proof subfolder in your Spyder3Print
application folder). Use View:Proof Setup:Custom in Photoshop (look
at my long video on the Datacolor site to see how to set things up
in that dialog).


David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

Re: New guy has some questions/Understanding the blotches

2008-03-24 by rschoner

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "rschoner" <rschoner@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> I just purchased PrintFix Pro with the 1005 colorimeter and I 
> uploaded the Spyder3 print software.  I used this to profile an 
Epson 
> R1800 printer with Epson inks and Ilford premium photo pearl paper.
> 
> My first question deals with using the colorimeter.  When I am 
making 
> the measurements the colorimeter sometimes skips ahead two or three 
> squares instead of moving to the next square. I was very careful to 
> make sure I was not double-clicking the colorimeter when releasing 
> the button. Once it happened on the end of a row; it skipped to the 
> third square on the next row.  I recover by backing up and re-
> measuring the last good square.  Any suggestions?
> 
> The second question deals with evaluating the profile with 
> SpyderProof. When I soft proof the adobe church I see "noise-like" 
> blotches across the top of the blue sky (all intents). If I soft 
> proof in my printing program (QImage) I don't see the blotches.  Is 
> Spyder Proof more "severe"?  Also, is there any way to load another 
> profile into Spyder Proof (That was not made by Spyder Print)? I 
> would like to load the Ilford profile and SpyderProof it to compare 
> to the PrintFix profile.  I tried File-Open Profile but I get a 
> Windows can not open this file message.
> 
> Thanks,
> Bob Schoner
>
Hi Again,

Thanks to David and others for responding to my first post.

I used PhotoShop to Soft Proof the adobe church using 5 profiles 
(PrintFix Pro 225 and 225 with grays, Ilford profile for R1800 and 
their Pearl paper, Epson's profile for their glossy Photo and a 
Profile Prism profile for Epson glossy and the R1800).  All profiles 
show the blotches in the sky but at different places. The Printfix 
profiles show the blotches at the top and across the crosses 
depending on the intent. Other profiles are at different places in 
the sky.  Darkening or lightening the sky moves the blotches up or 
down but does not completely eliminate them.  I think this is just a 
tough test for any profile; I have not printed the church so I don't 
know if it's visible on an actual print.

I then turned on the gamut warning. Only the Ilford profile showed no 
gamut warning.  All other profiles showed a warning in the ceiling 
above the balcony; don't know what this means.

So far, I'm happy.  I bought the PrintFix Pro to profile a CIS (which 
I have yet to buy) that probably will not have profiles for the ink 
and various papers that I might use.

Thanks for the help.

Bob Schoner

Re: New guy has some questions

2008-03-24 by Keith R.

Use View:Proof Setup:Custom in Photoshop (look
> at my long video on the Datacolor site to see how to set things up
> in that dialog).
> 
> 
> David Miller
> Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
> Datacolor

Could you put a link to this video or point out where is is on the site?

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: New guy has some questions

2008-03-24 by David Miller

On Mar 24, 2008, at 6:02 PM, Keith R. wrote:
> Use View:Proof Setup:Custom in Photoshop (look
> > at my long video on the Datacolor site to see how to set things up
> > in that dialog).
> >
> >
> > David Miller
> > Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
> > Datacolor
>
> Could you put a link to this video or point out where is is on the  
> site?
>

http://spyder.datacolor.com/learn_videos.php




David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: New guy has some questions/Understanding the blotches

2008-03-24 by David Miller

>
> I used PhotoShop to Soft Proof the adobe church using 5 profiles
> (PrintFix Pro 225 and 225 with grays, Ilford profile for R1800 and
> their Pearl paper, Epson's profile for their glossy Photo and a
> Profile Prism profile for Epson glossy and the R1800). All profiles
> show the blotches in the sky but at different places. The Printfix
> profiles show the blotches at the top and across the crosses
> depending on the intent. Other profiles are at different places in
> the sky. Darkening or lightening the sky moves the blotches up or
> down but does not completely eliminate them. I think this is just a
> tough test for any profile; I have not printed the church so I don't
> know if it's visible on an actual print.
>
>

Try printing and measuring 729 patches, and use those colors in
combinations with your grays measurements. I've done some recent
testing and closer evaluation of the R800 (same inks as yours, just
smaller paper) and it really needs the extra patches to avoid problems
in certain areas; the R800/R1800 is tricky to profile with fewer patches
because of its inkset (the extra red and blue inks) and what I found
is that with 225 patches, I was getting too much saturation and some
loss of smoothness in faces.

(this was on both Premium Luster and Harman Gloss)

So from now on, I'm using 729 patches, always, for the R800, and I've
also done a similar profile for the Canon 9500, also on Harman Gloss,
with 729 patches plus 238 grays.
>

David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

Re: New guy has some questions/Understanding the blotches

2008-03-26 by rschoner

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, David Miller <dm2363@...> 
wrote:
>
> >
> > I used PhotoShop to Soft Proof the adobe church using 5 profiles
> > (PrintFix Pro 225 and 225 with grays, Ilford profile for R1800 and
> > their Pearl paper, Epson's profile for their glossy Photo and a
> > Profile Prism profile for Epson glossy and the R1800). All 
profiles
> > show the blotches in the sky but at different places. The Printfix
> > profiles show the blotches at the top and across the crosses
> > depending on the intent. Other profiles are at different places in
> > the sky. Darkening or lightening the sky moves the blotches up or
> > down but does not completely eliminate them. I think this is just 
a
> > tough test for any profile; I have not printed the church so I 
don't
> > know if it's visible on an actual print.
> >
> >
> 
> Try printing and measuring 729 patches, and use those colors in
> combinations with your grays measurements. I've done some recent
> testing and closer evaluation of the R800 (same inks as yours, just
> smaller paper) and it really needs the extra patches to avoid 
problems
> in certain areas; the R800/R1800 is tricky to profile with fewer 
patches
> because of its inkset (the extra red and blue inks) and what I found
> is that with 225 patches, I was getting too much saturation and some
> loss of smoothness in faces.
> 
> (this was on both Premium Luster and Harman Gloss)
> 
> So from now on, I'm using 729 patches, always, for the R800, and 
I've
> also done a similar profile for the Canon 9500, also on Harman 
Gloss,
> with 729 patches plus 238 grays.
> >
> 
> David Miller
> Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
> Datacolor
>
Hi David,

Thanks for getting back.  I built a new profile using the 729 patches 
with the grays as you suggested.  I did not see much difference 
between the profiles using the PhotoShop soft proof.  So, I decided 
to quit pixel-peeping on the monitor and I printed the church on the 
same piece of paper (Ilford Pearl) using the Colorvision profile and 
the Ilford profile.  Looking with a magnifying glass and good light I 
can not see the blotches in the sky (the prints are smallish, about 
3x4). The only differences between the profiles is the Ilford profie 
produces a print that is a little brighter and a little bluer in the 
sky, the Colorvision sky is a little towards purple but still blue.  
The biggest difference between the two is in the lower level 
doorway,  The Ilford profile is a little lighter in this area and 
shows a little more detail.  I may redevelop the profile using some 
of the advanced adjustments. 

It's also possible that I'm bumping into a monotor limitation.  Using 
Photoshop's colorpicker there is only a difference of 1 in the blue 
value across the area that is blotchy.

One possible suggestion for Colorvision.  If Epson printers produce 
targets that are so dark that they are hard to profile you may want 
to consider making a "bright" target.  The software could be adjusted 
to compensate by knowing that the target was "bright" and the color 
readings may be improved.  I noticed that some of the dark areas on 
the targets were very dark to my eye and showed a large difference 
between the reading and the ideal.

Thanks for your help.

Bob Schoner

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: New guy has some questions/Understanding the blotches

2008-03-26 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 3/26/08 3:28:46 PM, rschoner@... writes:


One possible suggestion for Colorvision. If Epson printers produce
targets that are so dark that they are hard to profile you may want
to consider making a "bright" target. The software could be adjusted
to compensate by knowing that the target was "bright" and the color
readings may be improved. I noticed that some of the dark areas on
the targets were very dark to my eye and showed a large difference
between the reading and the ideal.


We went down that road with the original PrintFIX product. My analogy for that is the drunk thats looking for his keys under the streetlamp, not because thats where he dropped them, but because thats where is light enough to search. In other words: brighter targets only tell you things about brighter colors... and extrapolating down from there only works if your extrapolation assumptions prove correct. Since printers aren't linear, we can't afford to make those assumptions.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3




**************
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)

Re: New guy has some questions/GLOP or Not

2008-03-27 by rschoner

Hi Again,

For the bright target suggestion I was thinking that if the Epson 
prints so dark that many patches are too dark for the spectro to read 
then a brighter target may be helpful.  But, I see your argument about 
linear/non-linear mapping back to the darker baseline.

Anyway, my question is: Should I be printing the targets with the GLOP 
on or off?  I printed them with the GLOP on since that is the way I 
print when using Ilford Pearl.

Thanks Again,

Bob Schoner

Spyder/Optical

2008-04-07 by Bob Frost

I occasionally use my old Spyder2 with Optical software. Is there any newer 
software that is usable with the Spyder2?

Thanks,

Bob Frost

Re: [colorvision_group] Spyder/Optical

2008-04-07 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 4/7/08 3:17:14 AM, bob@... writes:


> I occasionally use my old Spyder2 with Optical software. Is there any newer
> software that is usable with the Spyder2?
> 

No,   the more recent software was designed specifically for the Spyder3 
hardware, so is not usable with earlier devices.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3


**************
Planning your summer road trip? Check 
out AOL Travel Guides.
      
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.