Datacolor User to User Support Group.

C. David Tobie

Mr. Tobie, how would I go about purchasing a new calibration tile for
Spyder3Print 3.0. I have used the tile that I now have to read about 
500 profiles. I have cleaned the tile and Spectrocolorimeter as posted. 
I find that at the point the meter reads the tile it has a definate 
dark spot. This throws readings way off. If I move the meter manually 
to read at the edge of the calibration tile it reads tile correctly and 
thus reads targets for profiles with correct values.


Aloha

Is it possible to use the spectrocolorimeter to directly measure color 
values from an original art work (watercolor, oil, acrylic) and relate 
them to a digital capture of that piece for the purposes of color matching?

For example can RGB values from the original be measured or derived - 
then I can compare that to the RGB values of that section of the digital 
capture and determine how far off it is...

I see from the documentation that Lab values can be measured, does that 
accomplish the same thing in some way?

Thanks for any guidance on this!

Ken

Thanks CD, I'll delve into it knowing that the process is feasible.  I 
shoot the originals using studio mono lights with polarizing film etc. 
and a custom camera profile.  Despite all that the files still need 
tweaking, I guess that's the real world as well.

Ken

CDTobie@... wrote:

>
>
> In a message dated 4/25/08 2:53:50 PM, kenchow@... writes:
>
>
> Is it possible to use the spectrocolorimeter to directly measure color
> values from an original art work (watercolor, oil, acrylic) and relate
> them to a digital capture of that piece for the purposes of color 
> matching?
>
> Yes, though accuracy of this type of device (called a 0/45 device as 
> it views at zero degrees, and illuminates at 45 degrees) is highest 
> for flat surfaces, and less exacting for textured surfaces, or heavy 
> clearcoats over the colors.
>
> For example can RGB values from the original be measured or derived -
> then I can compare that to the RGB values of that section of the digital
> capture and determine how far off it is...
>
> Lab values are real world values, and contain factors not included in 
> RGB values. But a file with a reasonable "RGB to Lab relationship" 
> (meaning a file in a Photoshop RGB workingspace such as AdobeRGB) 
> would be capable of reasonably matching colors, within the colorspace. 
> Its a tricky business, since the "image" on screen also includes the 
> illuminant it was photographed under, and values in textured images 
> contain sheen and shadow factors.
>
> The easiest method would be to use the Lab values from the spot 
> measurements, and set the Photoshop info tool to read in both your RGB 
> space, and in Lab.
>
> I see from the documentation that Lab values can be measured, does that
> accomplish the same thing in some way?
>
> Whether you can achieve what you are attempting depends on a number of 
> complicating factors, but its certainly worth attempting. Using high 
> quality 5000k lighting when shooting the painting would be helpful, 
> and avoiding huge workingspaces such as ProPhotoRGB would assist as well.
>
>

On Apr 25, 2008, at 3:17 PM, Jerome Klinger wrote:

>
> Hi,
> I have a question. I have used a Spyder2 Pro for my monitors for  
> some time now with great success.
> When using my Windows machines, I used an Epson Photo 2200 with the  
> profiles on the Epson site and was very satisfied.
> I switched to MAC and there are no Epson profiles for the 2200.

Well, right off the bat, that statement's incorrect, there ARE  
profiles from Epson.
(We like profiles that "we" build better, but the "canned" profiles  
are there).

You can either pick them by name in Photoshop's Print dialog (you're  
just going to have to look
hard for them, but they WILL appear in the popup, along with other  
printer profiles);

or you can have the driver pick them for you automatically, by  
choosing "Let Printer
Manage Colors" in the Photoshop print dialog, and then using ColorSync  
as your color matching
method. (When you do this, the Epson driver loads and uses a profile  
automatically based
on your paper/media type selection).

> Every time I print the colors are horrible.

If you do "that" part of things correctly, you shouldn't get horrible  
color... just what
I would call "Epson standard" color. You should always be able to get  
a good print from the
driver.

> I purchased a Spyder3 Print and even following all the directions,  
> using the Epson papers I always use, etc. When I print, there seems  
> to be no change with the Spyder profile than there was before it.

That's a big clue: it means you're not applying/using the profile  
properly; OR, that you printed the target incorrectly
(with color management enabled) and as a result, you built a printer  
profile that does almost
nothing; and so when you apply it: it does almost nothing.

> I have color management turned off on the Epson and I'm letting  
> Photoshop pick the color profile.
> Can you advise me as to what I'm doing wrong, please? Is there  
> anyplace that has step by step directions for using the Print3?
>
> Thank you
> Jerry
>

First: watch the demo vidoes here:

http://spyder.datacolor.com/learn_videos.php

See if you're making a basic mistake, this way, first.

If not: email me off list at davem@... and we can
continue there.


David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

On Apr 26, 2008, at 1:05 PM, Jerome Klinger wrote:

>
> Thank you so much for you prompt response
> I appreciate it very much
> One last question, if I may, where do I look for the profiles if  
> using Aperture or Nikon NX?
>
>


In Aperture (2.1):

File:Print, and then in the Printer Selection section: set ColorSync  
Profile
to your custom profile.

Nikon NX: I don't have that, so I can't help with it.


David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

In NX, go to PRINT; Color Management ~~ select the Use Color Management button; use the dropdown dialog to set the profile. Be sure to set your color

Thank you very much, DataColor has been In touch with me and new tile 
with holder are on the way. Excellent service from DataColor. I 
usually use the 225 patch target but recently started to use 729 
patch target for profiles. The 225 patch target is very good and 
adjustment to the read profile at creation of profile is easy. The 
729 patch is a little harder to make adjustments when working out 
profile but I find that I am getting older and with the 729 patch 
target it is easy for me to spot colors that I have read out of 
sequence or just made a bad measurement...Aloha and thanks, Randy 
Gentry

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 4/25/08 2:38:25 PM, gentryr001@... writes:
> 
> 
> > C. David Tobie
> > 
> > Mr. Tobie, how would I go about purchasing a new calibration tile 
for
> > Spyder3Print 3.0. I have used the tile that I now have to read 
about
> > 500 profiles. I have cleaned the tile and Spectrocolorimeter as 
posted.
> > I find that at the point the meter reads the tile it has a 
definate
> > dark spot. This throws readings way off. If I move the meter 
manually
> > to read at the edge of the calibration tile it reads tile 
correctly and
> > thus reads targets for profiles with correct values.
> > 
> 
> I'll contact Datacolor Support and have them get your shipping 
address to 
> send you a replacement tile. Glad to hear you have gotten so much 
use out of your 

> spectro!
> 
> C. David Tobie
> WW Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> Datacolor
> CDTobie@...
> www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
> 
> 
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