Datacolor User to User Support Group.

I thought I would never need to ask for help here but have finally had to concede defeat.
For some time on my Epson R800 my prints have been coming out too dark. This was using a Dell 21" CRT calibrated with a spyder2 and using updated profiles from Epson for the R800. However prints from a digital dump are okay. Using Photoshop CS3. This used to work okay but somewhere in the last year prints started turning out darker than the screen. Repeated monitor calibrations made no difference.
I use Epson paper and ink.

In an effort to improve things I shelled out on a spyder3studio and a Dell 2408WFP LCD.
After the usual issues with calibrating the Dell I got to a point where the spyder3elite seemed to be giving me good images (monitor brightness at 0 and the 3 colors approx 88 with luminance at 120, 2.2 gamma and 6500 kelvin).
Then I used the spyder3print. I turned off the color management in the printer driver and created an unmanaged profile using PhotoRPM, landscape and Premium Glossy paper with Gloss turned on. Then I printed the test sheet and scanned it. Saved the profile and then did some test prints with the unmanaged profile for the printer and selecting the spyder3print created profile and managed by Photoshop. 

Prints are still turning out too dark.

(Note that you have no idea how carefull I have been with the scanning so have no reason to think the profile created is wrong - not after doing it 3 times anyway and leaving prints overnight to dry properly).
I don't think the printer is faulty as pictures are fine when printed using standard profiles and printing from something like ACDSee.
It is almost as if the printer driver isn't responding to being turned off when printing from CS3.

A  minor point about using the spyder3print. When scanning glossy and semigloss paper the spyder "sticks" to the paper making a smooth scan tricky. I found the quickest way was to use the guide held firmly at one end, view from low down (but not too low that I couldn't see the LED) at the begining of the row and use the spyder clicker to take the reading while moving the spyder away from me. Glossy paper meant I had to lift it slightly (more like take the pressure off the spyder as I moved it) rather than just slide it like with matte.

Some hints for you:

> For some time on my Epson R800 my prints have been coming out too dark. This was using a Dell 21" CRT calibrated with a spyder2 and using updated profiles from Epson for the R800.

So you're using a new set of profile from Epson right ?

>However prints from a digital dump are okay.

What do you mean by digital dump?

> I don't think the printer is faulty as pictures are fine when printed using standard profiles and printing from something like ACDSee.

So you still have a set of profiles that work fine.

Conclusion the profiles are probably the problem. Small desktop printers are not pre-calibrated at the factory like the pro printer from Epson. A generic profile can works OK or not, depending on the print head and a few others parameters set at the factory when they install the head in the printers. I saw some R4200 in the past that printed far too dark with the generic Epson profiles. Epson updtaed profiles should not be so different that the previous one. It is strange to say the least but possible.

For these printers I always succeeded to produce a correct new profile with S3Print. But on some of these printers I was forced to reduce ink density in the driver to achieve a correct profile. For unknown (bad factory settings?) these printers layed down too much ink. Since I don't have an R800 I don't know if the ink density control is available in the driver. But it is worth to take a look.

First, you should print the quality check target with S3Print and look to see if your dark tones are not a little bit clogged. If it is the case, then reduce the ink density (assuming you can do it) and print the target again. Then compare both results.

If the printer lay  down too much ink, whenever the reason, S3Print will not produce an optimum profile. It would be the case for any profiling software anyway).

Assuming that everything is fine on the ink density side, I would suggest to increase the Brightness slider by +2 or +3. I always have to do it on the Premium Gloss Paper to get a correct profile. The reason is that the basic media setting for Premium Gloss lay down a lot of ink and the ink density is at the limit for this paper. When I print the quality check target, the dark tones are near clogged. I suspect that Epson programmed the hignest ink density possible in the driver to get the highest dmax possible with the black and look good in the reviewer's benchmark. 

So, to resume:

1. Be sure that the quality check target is OK. If you can, optimize the ink density.
2. Create your  profile and play with the brighness slider. Even a small value can make a serious difference.

I assume that you did everything else right with the profiling sequence. PS settings are ok for the document profile and printer's profile etc.

The spectro should not stick to the printed target at all. Wait a few hours (24 hours is ideal) to be sure that your printed target is fully dry. If the spectro stick to the printed target, then it could be an indication that your printer is laying down too much ink on the paper, whih will restrict you to make an optimum profile

Also be sure that the white tile of the spectro base is clean, a dirty white patch would give you an incorrect spectro calibration.

Daniel Vezina
Numart Inc.
QC, Canada

No I don t have any profiles that now work. They are come out too dark. Not by much but noticeable. For the R800 I am not using the profiles which came with

I didn't like the generic Epson profiles for my R1800 (same driver as the R800).  They're a bit dark and too blue.  

Try generic Ilford Gallerie profiles with any standard glossy or semigloss paper.

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, chriscalvert@... wrote:

>
> No I don't have any profiles that now work. They are come out too dark. Not 
> by much but noticeable.
> For the R800 I am not using the profiles which came with the printer but 
> some I downloaded from Epson which were supposedly better.
> A digital dump is a term we use here when you send prints into a 
> commercial lab. They automatically arrange the prints to suit a very wide 
> strip of paper and dump the lot in one go. So there is no chance that the 
> printer driver is being used BUT neither is the R800 and if I have an ink 
> density problem then that is also being bypassed.
> I will check out your suggestions.
> Note that even after 24 hours both gloss and semigloss stick slightly. And 
> they stick when I check my Epson 1290 and Canon Pro9000 with glossy 
> and semigloss paper.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Calvert
> Prebbleton Computer Services
> Christchurch, New Zealand
> Ph - 03 349 8182 or +64 3 349 8182
> Cell - 021 83 22 55 or +64 21 83 22 55
> 
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