Datacolor User to User Support Group.

I bought an Apple 23" Video display. Now despite callibration with Spyder II, Photoshop CS4 managing color, my prints are coming out dark and the shadows are all blocked up. I have been printing without problem for years with this sytem and a CRT. I know all the correct settings on printing with Photoshop. I know this is a problem with the LCD profile as it has been talked about elsewhere. I have tryed a few "adjustments" with luminosity settings in Spyder software and decreased the brightness on the LCD which has helped alot. It is still not back to the screen/ print match I used to get with the old CRT. I would really appreciate any help, if someone has solved this problem. I like this monitor and would not want to go back to the old CRT or buy a $3000 LCD.
Malodiver

On May 31, 2009, at 11:56 AM, malodiver wrote:

> I bought an Apple 23" Video display. Now despite callibration with  
> Spyder II, Photoshop CS4 managing color, my prints are coming out  
> dark and the shadows are all blocked up. I have been printing  
> without problem for years with this sytem and a CRT

Well, have you lowered the brightness of the LCD all the way down yet?  
And raised your ambient lighting a bit as well? Until you get that  
balance right, you will find the LCD too contrasty, and your prints  
darker than your screen.

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

On May 31, 2009, at 11:56 AM, malodiver wrote:

>
>
> I bought an Apple 23" Video display. Now despite callibration with  
> Spyder II, Photoshop CS4 managing color, my prints are coming out  
> dark and the shadows are all blocked up. I have been printing  
> without problem for years with this sytem and a CRT. I know all the  
> correct settings on printing with Photoshop.
>

Maybe you do; but then again, you may be making a mistake here.

Photoshop Manages Colors: yes, that's correct, but what do you have  
selected
in the popup beneath that?

If you choose a profile that's not a printer profile that's  
specifically for your
printer: your printed colors won't be right.

If you choose a working space (sRGB or Adobe RGB) then you're 100%  
wrong and your
prints will be much too dark. Those aren't intended to be used as a  
destination
space for printing. This choice would essentially give you an  
uncalibrated print.
(very dark)

You MUST choose a profile for the 7600 and/or 4880 here. If you don't  
have
Spyder3Print, then you need to choose the corresponding Epson profile,  
and also,
the one that's appropriate for the paper that you're printing on.


David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

I agree, found that my dark prints went away once I reduced the bightness and had a monitor properly calibrated.  Key was the brightness.

--- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, Robert Peirce <bob@...> wrote:

>
> On May 31, 2009, at 11:56 AM, malodiver wrote:
> 
> > I bought an Apple 23" Video display. Now despite callibration with  
> > Spyder II, Photoshop CS4 managing color, my prints are coming out  
> > dark and the shadows are all blocked up. I have been printing  
> > without problem for years with this sytem and a CRT. I know all the  
> > correct settings on printing with Photoshop. I know this is a  
> > problem with the LCD profile as it has been talked about elsewhere.  
> > I have tryed a few "adjustments" with luminosity settings in Spyder  
> > software and decreased the brightness on the LCD which has helped  
> > alot. It is still not back to the screen/ print match I used to get  
> > with the old CRT. I would really appreciate any help, if someone  
> > has solved this problem. I like this monitor and would not want to  
> > go back to the old CRT or buy a $3000 LCD.
> >
> 
> I suggest a few test prints.
> 
> I (and many others) have had problems matching the brightness on the  
> screen with the brightness on the prints.  I found, like you, that  
> turning down the screen brightness helps a lot.  In my case it solved  
> the problem.  However, it can get in the way of editing.
> 
> What I do now is to edit with the brightness turned up to a  
> comfortable level.  I then turn it down to print level for final  
> adjustment before printing.
> 
> BTW, on my MacBook Pro with a 16 step screen brightness control,  
> starting at 0, my print level is 9 and my edit level is 13. That is a  
> pretty large difference.  9 is actually too low to be very useful for  
> editing, but 13 is too bright for printing.
> 
> My printer is an HP B9180, which aggravates the situation  
> considerably. However, with this printer, and I am guessing most  
> printers, you can turn up the print brightness in the driver.
> 
> I understand none of this should not be necessary, but it seems to be  
> for many people.
>

--- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, "ejc_1@..." <ejc_1@...> wrote:
>
> I agree, found that my dark prints went away once I reduced the bightness and had a monitor properly calibrated.  Key was the brightness.

Yea that's the key... is to have the brightness of your workspace or proofing light/booth match the brightness of the monitor. My workspace is my basement with daylight balanced overhead lighting. Works very well.

this has gone from a rare odd problem to a near epidemic problem, obviously traced to the rise of the new monitors. As someone who meticulously calibrates output, and yet gets increasing complaints of client's prints darker than expected from the supplied files...
may I refer them all to you???<G>
Tyler

--- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, C D Tobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:

>
> 
> On May 31, 2009, at 11:56 AM, malodiver wrote:
> 
> > I bought an Apple 23" Video display. Now despite callibration with  
> > Spyder II, Photoshop CS4 managing color, my prints are coming out  
> > dark and the shadows are all blocked up. I have been printing  
> > without problem for years with this sytem and a CRT
> 
> Well, have you lowered the brightness of the LCD all the way down yet?  
> And raised your ambient lighting a bit as well? Until you get that  
> balance right, you will find the LCD too contrasty, and your prints  
> darker than your screen.
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Global Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> CDTobie@...
> 
> 
> 
> Datacolor
> www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
>

What we do with Spyder3 is to offer an Ambient Light Wizard that  
checks your light levels, and defines a display brightness that's  
appropriate for it. Than it checks on an ongoing basis to be sure tour  
ambient light does not wander too far from that level.

But people have to be willing to buy it, to use it, to turn on the  
ambient light features, and to pay attention to what these features  
tell them, in order for this solution to work for them.

C. D. Tobie
Global Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor.com
CDTobie@...

On May 31, 2009, at 2:51 PM, "Tyler Boley" <trboley@...>  
wrote:

> this has gone from a rare odd problem to a near epidemic problem,  
> obviously traced to the rise of the new monitors. As someone who  
> meticulously calibrates output, and yet gets increasing complaints  
> of client's prints darker than expected from the supplied files...
> may I refer them all to you???<G>
> Tyler
>
> --- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, C D Tobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On May 31, 2009, at 11:56 AM, malodiver wrote:
>>
>>> I bought an Apple 23" Video display. Now despite callibration with
>>> Spyder II, Photoshop CS4 managing color, my prints are coming out
>>> dark and the shadows are all blocked up. I have been printing
>>> without problem for years with this sytem and a CRT
>>
>> Well, have you lowered the brightness of the LCD all the way down  
>> yet?
>> And raised your ambient lighting a bit as well? Until you get that
>> balance right, you will find the LCD too contrasty, and your prints
>> darker than your screen.
>>
>> C. David Tobie
>> Global Product Technology Manager
>> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
>> CDTobie@...
>>
>>
>>
>> Datacolor
>> www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

See I learned something, I always thought the ambient light sensor impacted the color profile also, not just the brightness and contrast.





--- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, Cdtobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:

>
> What we do with Spyder3 is to offer an Ambient Light Wizard that  
> checks your light levels, and defines a display brightness that's  
> appropriate for it. Than it checks on an ongoing basis to be sure tour  
> ambient light does not wander too far from that level.
> 
> But people have to be willing to buy it, to use it, to turn on the  
> ambient light features, and to pay attention to what these features  
> tell them, in order for this solution to work for them.
> 
> C. D. Tobie
> Global Product Technology Mngr.
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> Datacolor.com
> CDTobie@...
> 
> On May 31, 2009, at 2:51 PM, "Tyler Boley" <trboley@...>  
> wrote:
> 
> > this has gone from a rare odd problem to a near epidemic problem,  
> > obviously traced to the rise of the new monitors. As someone who  
> > meticulously calibrates output, and yet gets increasing complaints  
> > of client's prints darker than expected from the supplied files...
> > may I refer them all to you???<G>
> > Tyler
> >
> > --- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, C D Tobie <CDTobie@> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On May 31, 2009, at 11:56 AM, malodiver wrote:
> >>
> >>> I bought an Apple 23" Video display. Now despite callibration with
> >>> Spyder II, Photoshop CS4 managing color, my prints are coming out
> >>> dark and the shadows are all blocked up. I have been printing
> >>> without problem for years with this sytem and a CRT
> >>
> >> Well, have you lowered the brightness of the LCD all the way down  
> >> yet?
> >> And raised your ambient lighting a bit as well? Until you get that
> >> balance right, you will find the LCD too contrasty, and your prints
> >> darker than your screen.
> >>
> >> C. David Tobie
> >> Global Product Technology Manager
> >> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> >> CDTobie@
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Datacolor
> >> www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

Thanks for input. Some of this is probably just getting use to the major  
change in brightness of the Apple Cinema LCD. Beautiful for most things but 
not  the best for matching print media. I am using Windows which means my 
only  monitor control is the one brightness button on the monitor. My prior CRT 
had  great fine tuning capability and my OS color control was unimportant. 
I continue  to tweak my workspace environment and twiddle with the 
calibration  luminosity and white point settings. A price I must pay to move into new 
monitor  turf. I have taken my monitor calibration for granted for a long 
time now and  suddenly Im a newbie running test calibration prints and 
changing my printer  profiles. I may think about Spyder 3, if it is more usable 
with the LCD  environment. I would recommend staying away from the Apple 
Cinema monitors for  photo editing and find one with more fine tuning 
capabilities, especially if  using a Windows system. PS: Vista color control sucks, I 
went back to XP as it  wont kick out the calibration, every time a security 
warning comes up. 
Malodiver
**************We found the real ‘Hotel California’ and the ‘Seinfeld’ 
diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. 
(http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=eml
cntnew00000007)

Yes, Spyder3Elite has some advantages for LCD, and even more  
advantages for wide gamut and LED backlight LCDs. It also has some  
functions designed to make Vista less problematic.

As for staying away from Cinema Displays; you are looking at this from  
a CRT point of view, where there were of hardware calibration  
controls. LCDs simply don't have (and don't really need) all those  
tuning adjustments.

C. D. Tobie
Global Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor.com
CDTobie@...

On Jun 1, 2009, at 8:10 PM, malodiver@... wrote:

>
>
> Thanks for input. Some of this is probably just getting use to the  
> major change in brightness of the Apple Cinema LCD. Beautiful for  
> most things but not the best for matching print media. I am using  
> Windows which means my only monitor control is the one brightness  
> button on the monitor. My prior CRT had great fine tuning capability  
> and my OS color control was unimportant. I continue to tweak my  
> workspace environment and twiddle with the calibration luminosity  
> and white point settings. A price I must pay to move into new  
> monitor turf. I have taken my monitor calibration for granted for a  
> long time now and suddenly Im a newbie running test calibration  
> prints and changing my printer profiles. I may think about Spyder 3,  
> if it is more usable with the LCD environment. I would recommend  
> staying away from the Apple Cinema monitors for photo editing and  
> find one with more fine tuning capabilities, especially if using a  
> Windows system. PS: Vista color control sucks, I went back to XP as  
> it wont kick out the calibration, every time a security warning  
> comes up.
> Malodiver
>
> We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What  
> will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com.
>
>
>

Hi, David,

--- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, C D Tobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:

> Well, have you lowered the brightness of the LCD all the way down yet?  
> And raised your ambient lighting a bit as well? Until you get that  
> balance right, you will find the LCD too contrasty, and your prints  
> darker than your screen.

An excellent point, and one not often given enough attention.

I've recently made some moves in that direction, including the installation of 500OK wide-spectrum CFLs in my working area, with a greater luminous output than the prior lamps, and setting the white luminance of my display to very nearly that recommended in connection with the sRGB standard.

I now find that there is good visual consistency between the on-screen presentation of an image and the corresponding print, examined in that environment.

Best regards,

Doug